Anyone with a Fujitsu FM7 w/Z80 card?

[doc_rob]

Yes, i have a German Version. You can see the ÄÖÜ, äöü, ß characters in the fourth row.

 

[alexsal]

Yes, i have a German Version. You can see the ÄÖÜ, äöü, ß characters in the fourth row.

Thanks!

FM-7 German version? Very interesting! Until now I had no idea that there was another "foreign" version besides Spanish.
It would be interesting to know more about it. Do you have any information about this?

Cheers!

 

[doc_rob]

Not really. I bought it a while ago from Germany (i live in Austria) with the Floppy Drives (yes multiple (=2) drives). I replaced the first drive, which is in the case with the floppy controller with a Gotek because it had a weird error anyway (system couldn't boot from it, but reading and writing was fine as second drive). I have OS-9, FLEX and CP/M running now. I also have a Video to HDMI Converter which works fine. I recently made a serial card for it with a USB - Serial converter on it so i can connect with serial too. I really like this computer.
I think besides the ROMs (and the keyboard) there isn't anything special about this version.
-robert

 

[alexsal]

This could then mean that the German version of the FM-7, which due to the motherboard and BASIC 3.01 is an FM-7 later version, was probably the first "overseas" version released before the Spanish Secoinsa FM-7 version, which uses the FM-NEW7 motherboard with BASIC 3.02.

It can then be assumed that like the Spanish version it uses a 220V power supply and that no converter from 100 to 220 is needed!

On haserin09's site regarding the differences with the Spanish version, this was also mentioned:

In addition, the version of the internal ROM of the keyboard microcontroller in the FM-7S is also different from that of the domestic market.

Then one can assume that the German version also has a different internal ROM of the keyboard microcontroller.

Cheers!

 

[seat safety switch]

Very cool artifact! I had heard of the Spanish machines but not Germans.

 

[doc_rob]

I would think that the program of the Keyboard Controller ist different because the Offset of the characters ist the same in all characters ROMs. And yes, my machine has 220V Power supply Input with a C14 Plug.

 

[alexsal]

It might also be interesting to see what is written on the backplate! (specially what it says under "TYPE")

One more thing...

There is another chip in FM-7 that the fm7 mame source says does not have a dump. It is a 512x4 bipolar PROM with the designation MB7053:

2198 ROM_REGION( 0x200, "fc00prom", 0 )
2199 ROM_LOAD( "mb7053.ic139", 0x000, 0x200, NO_DUMP ) // 512x4 bipolar PROM for address decoding

The haserin09 site also lists that chip under FM-7:

FM-7 MAINADEC MB7053 TK11-11 Main Address Decoder

Its position is between the BASIC ROM and the BOOT ROM as shown in the picture:


But on your board, the TK11 11 marking seems to have disappeared:


MB7053 datasheet by Fujitsu

Description 512 x 4 TTL PROM Memory

P.S. I typed "Fujitsu MB7053 dumping" into the browser and it brought up a brief explanation of AI, but if you are unsure, it might be best to leave it to someone else. (or check with someone who has experience with it)

EDIT: Also, your chip is missing the TK11 11 marking so we can't be sure if it's the same one... but what else could it be!? (how likely is it that they changed something here specifically for that model?)
So maybe it's best to wait for someone from the MAME to give their opinion on this.

Cheers

 

[Istarian]

@alexsal I would guess that the PROM in their machine used to have a sticker on it as it appears to have some adhesive residue.

Perhaps the contents are identical, but there is small chance that they could be slightly different.

 

[alexsal]

Since there is almost no information about the German FM-7 model, I asked the artificial intelligence if it knew anything about it.

I asked: Which computer models were used in German schools in the 1980s?

In West Germany (FRG)
Commodore PET / CBM series
Apple II and its clones
Commodore 64 (C64) & C128
Sharp MZ-Serie
Early IBM PCs and Compatibles

In East Germany (GDR)
In the GDR, the introduction of computer science education was state-mandated from the mid-1980s onwards, for which dedicated computers had to be developed.
Robotron KC 85/1, Z 9001 and KC 87
LC 80 (Learning Computer 80)
Robotron BIC A 5105

(the above is in short)

Then I asked a follow-up question: Fujitsu FM-7 at school?

The Fujitsu FM-7 (Fujitsu Micro 7) played virtually no role in German schools during the 1980s and was an absolute rarity in regular lessons. While the computer was extremely popular in its home country of Japan (comparable to the C64 in the West), it remained a rare exception in Germany for several reasons:

* Focus on other markets: Fujitsu primarily exported the FM-7 to Spain (via the joint venture Secoinsa) for targeted integration into a state-run school program. Exports also went to the Soviet Union. In Germany, however, it was never widely distributed or certified by the state ministries of education.

* Lack of ecosystem: There was hardly any software, no German manuals, and virtually no learning programs for the system in German-speaking countries. Schools instead preferred established systems like the Commodore PET or the Apple II, for which there was a wealth of teaching materials.

* High price: Due to its complex architecture with two Motorola 6809 processors (one for the system, one separate for graphics), the FM-7 was relatively expensive to purchase. German schools tended to invest their budgets in this price range in industry-standard (IBM PCs) or saved money with the cheaper C64.

The rare exception:
Occasionally, imported devices found their way to Germany via dedicated teachers or specialized electronics retailers. Some of these rare "German" models were equipped with a modified Z80 expansion card to enable the CP/M operating mode, which was then used in education. However, this remained an absolute exception.

If you happened to sit at an FM-7 in a German school in the 80s, your school owned an extremely valuable collector's item!

What... "Exports also went to the Soviet Union." That would mean that in addition to the German and Spanish variants, we have another "overseas" variant of the FM-7 model!? (just where did the AI get that information from)

@doc_rob
The AI says that: You own an extremely valuable collector's item!

Cheers

 

[doc_rob]

Data from M139 PROM. Read as 74S570.

 

[doc_rob]

Since i can't find the Sticker INSIDE the Case somewhere, i am Not Sure which Version i have. A dump from someone else would be helpful. Since it is an addressdecoder i doubt there is any difference.

 

[alexsal]

Since i can't find the Sticker INSIDE the Case somewhere, i am Not Sure which Version i have. A dump from someone else would be helpful. Since it is an addressdecoder i doubt there is any difference.

Thanks!

Yes, I agree... another dump from someone else would be helpful!

At least the MAME team now has everything needed to implement emulation of the rare German version of FM-7!

Cheers

EDIT: This is a snippet of the M139 part according to the schematic found in the magazine IO_198304 p.285!

 

[alexsal]

There's something else...

On the FM-7 Museum's website, under the specifications, you can see that each machine has its own model number.

FM-8 ------> MB25020
FM-7 ------> MB25010
FM-NEW7 -> MB25015

But on the same pages, you can't find information about machines that were exported.

However, each machine has a plate on the bottom where this information can be read.
So for the Secoinsa FM-7 (Spain model), we know the model number from its plate: --> MB25012S

It is interesting to note that the model number of the Spanish FM-7 is between the FM-7 and FM-NEW7 models.

Therefore, it would be interesting to know the model number of the German version of the FM-7.
Based on the above, one could speculate that it could be MB25011G or MB25011D, but that require confirmation.

Cheers

 

[doc_rob]

Well, it is MB25012

 

[alexsal]

Thanks!

That would mean that MB25012 is actually the model number of the FM-7 intended for export, with the letter S added for the Spanish model that came later.

Cheers

 

[doc_rob]

BTW, anyone ever Seen a schematic for the FM11?

 

[alexsal]

BTW, anyone ever Seen a schematic for the FM11?

Why, do you have one?

There are several models of the FM-11... for which model do you need a schematic? (Unfortunately I haven't seen a schematic for the FM-11 anywhere yet.)

But on archive.org there is a Fujitsu FM-11 motherboard with several dumped ROMs.
On haserin09 there is a list of ROMs for the FM-11... the ones from archive.org according to that list would be from the FM-11AD2 machine, but it seems that BOOT09 ROM is missing so it is not complete.

FM-11AD2

SUBSYS SUB40205831203
MBM2764-25 VK31-11, VK32-11
MBM2732A-25 VK33-11
CG MBM2764-20 TR11-11
BOOT09 MBM2732A-20 VM11-11 (or WK11-12)

There is also an emulator (not simulator) for FM-11AD2+ which requires ROMs from the real machine to work. (only the BOOT09 ROM is missing to make it work using archive ROMs)
EDIT: In any case, from what I can read, apart from F-BASIC and OS-9 there isn't much available that could run on that emulator, and it also doesn't emulate a Z80 card so CPM won't work on it, but it will on the simulator.

Cheers

 

[doc_rob]

I don't have one. I would like to get my hands on an AD2+. The schematics are Just out of curiosity.

 

[alexsal]

BTW, anyone ever Seen a schematic for the FM11?

I found the schematics for the FM-11 thanks to the references mentioned by the author of the FM-11 emulator!

FM-7/11 Application Research --> FM-11 Hardware Specifications
FM-7/11 Application Research --> FM-11 Complete Circuit Diagram

Also found schematics for some other models:

FM8 Application Research ------------> FM-8 Complete Circuit Diagram
FM7/8 Application Research ----------> FM-7 Complete Circuit Diagram
FM-7/11 Application Research Vol.2 --> FM-77 Complete Circuit Diagram

Cheers

 

[doc_rob]

Wow, thank you so much.