Is it about time for later Pentiums to be considered vintage?

[Caluser2000]

Well, I don't think that's true for out-of-the-box standard distros. Something about lacking the CMOV instruction. Similarly, they won't run modern browsers, which appear to depend heavily upon SSE2 instructions. I can run FF on Bullseye or Win7 on a P4, but not a P3 or earlier. Of course, the NetBSD claim of "Of course, it runs NetBSD" hasn't really been true for awhile, has it?

I'm just beginning to explore the BSDs Chuck. I'll report back as I go. I hope members don't get all over emotional like the K6-2 400 with MMII video card.

I like to see how far I can go wrt to Linux. I generally stear away from the mainstream Distros for old kit. There are Distros that run fine on the old stuff when you start digging into the rabbit whole

 

[Chuck(G)]

I've got a CD binder full of old Linux distributions for just such cases. Also, still have the MSDN CD/DVDs to fill in the gaps, in case I need a Catalan version of NT 3.51...

I've heard, but not tried, that it's possible to recompile the current Debian kernel to work older Intel CPUs. I imagine that the result might be as slow as molasses in January.

 

[Caluser2000]

WRT to the CMOV thing. When I installed Crung Bang (#!) Linux on my ACER ASPIAF1 box back in 2010 or so the installer insisted the cpu should support CMOV or no go Joe. I was gob smacked when I hook that hdd up to my K6-2 400 rig and it boot staight to the #! xfce4 desktop without any bother at all.and it booted direct to the desktop on it.

 

[jafir]

I'm not trying to pick on anyone's opinions, but my opinion is that current preferences aren't a good gauge for what will be worth hanging onto for the future. I think the reason XT, AT, 386, and 486 are so popular now is that there was a time when they were just old junk, and if you didn't have much space you wouldn't have second thoughts about throwing them in the trash. And 386 and 486 have had many killed by bad batteries.

While I, too, don't consider them vintage, I think a Pentium 4 may soon (a decade or so) become "rare" because so many are going to get tossed as old junk, and 95% of the rest will probably have bad capacitors. I've got 3 on the shelf that I intend to re-cap at some point, and hopefully my terrible skills will leave me at least one working.

 

[Unknown_K]

I am sure I said this before but most early PCs were expensive so people tended to just put them in the basement and forget about them. Newer machines sold in much more massive quantities but they were also much cheaper and people kind of passed them off to kids and then trashed them. Most new machines are so cheap (price and build quality) that they end up going straight to the recycler when they break or get upgraded.

For home use these days a dual core is the bare minimum so anything before that is pretty unusable if you do much web browsing or video playing. The fact that most single core machines also have a low RAM ceiling makes them unusable with quite a few things these days.

Every class of computer ends up in the old junk category sooner rather than later and most get recycled these days so they will get rare down the road and collectable (some brands and models more then others).

 

[Chuck(G)]

WRT to the CMOV thing. When I installed Crung Bang (#!) Linux on my ACER ASPIAF1 box back in 2010 or so the installer insisted the cpu should support CMOV or no go Joe. I was gob smacked when I hook that hdd up to my K6-2 400 rig and it boot staight to the #! xfce4 desktop without any bother at all.

I seem to recall something about running the installer on a different system from the non-CMOV one, but there was always the itch on the back of my neck that the darned thing was just waiting to trip me up when I least expected it. But 9.04 was EOL 12 years ago. Let's see you try that with, say, Bionic...

 

[Caluser2000]

I seem to recall something about running the installer on a different system from the non-CMOV one, but there was always the itch on the back of my neck that the darned thing was just waiting to trip me up when I least expected it. But 9.04 was EOL 12 years ago. Let's see you try that with, say, Bionic...

Lol! Bionic anything sounds painful. I mean we've had super, hyper, ultra, milti this n that and that. Isn't it time we all got back to REAL Mode?

 

[Roland Huisman]

In 1998 I saved a Tulip 286 computer, just with the idea: I might like that thing when I'm older. It was just old junk, nothing about a 286 was worth saving. But I had such a second hand machine as my first PC as a kid. Now on birthdays kids are playing games on it and I have my TTL tester plugged into the machine. Back in 1998 I didn't even think about collecting computers.

Now I have to admit that I have several Pentium based machines. Also this Compaq Proliant 2500 dual Pentium pro 200 which just brings back memories. I've searched for it and paid an apple pie for it. I just really like the looks of these machines and worked with them when they were new.



And now I have to admit that I'm thinking about searching for an Asus P2B-DS board with dual P-III 450. Just a marvellous configuration I had back then. There is only one thing about these machines... The software is a bit too new to be vintage, and the hardware a bit too old to do modern things with it.

On a P133 it makes sense to still run MS-Dos on it for example. But on a dual P-Pro it doesn't make sense at all... So I'm thinking a bit about what to run on these kind of machines...

But the smartest thing you can do is save machines which you like and are not classified as vintage. That will save a few bucks now, and over 20 years they will be vintage anyway...

Regards, Roland

 

[Caluser2000]

In 1998 I saved a Tulip 286 computer, just with the idea: I might like that thing when I'm older. It was just old junk, nothing about a 286 was worth saving. But I had such a second hand machine as my first PC as a kid. Now on birthdays kids are playing games on it and I have my TTL tester plugged into the machine. Back in 1998 I didn't even think about collecting computers.

Now I have to admit that I have several Pentium based machines. Also this Compaq Proliant 2500 dual Pentium pro 200 which just brings back memories. I've searched for it and paid an apple pie for it. I just really like the looks of these machines and worked with them when they were new.

View attachment 1240123View attachment 1240124

And now I have to admit that I'm thinking about searching for an Asus P2B-DS board with dual P-III 450. Just a marvellous configuration I had back then. There is only one thing about these machines... The software is a bit too new to be vintage, and the hardware a bit too old to do modern things with it.

On a P133 it makes sense to still run MS-Dos on it for example. But on a dual P-Pro it doesn't make sense at all... So I'm thinking a bit about what to run on these kind of machines...

But the smartest thing you can do is save machines which you like and are not classified as vintage. That will save a few bucks now, and over 20 years they will be vintage anyway...

Regards, Roland

Yeap get in before the rush and prices sky rocket. OOPs! too late!

 

[VERAULT]

i use a minimalist linux distro on my pentium iii laptop. it requires alot of tinkering and ita not fast.. but it works

 

[computerdude92]

486 and earlier systems are special now because people realized they need them for old speed sensitive games. Times have changed and newer software is much more forward compatible than stuff made in the early 90's and before.

 

[Caluser2000]

i use a minimalist linux distro on my pentium iii laptop. it requires alot of tinkering and ita not fast.. but it works

That's nice. What speed PIII? What Disto? Debian 11 will install and run on a PIII no sweat.

What do you mean by "not fast"? Not fast in comparison to what? A 386dx16 running Windows 95a?

It is generally wise if one puts some context in ones post so forum members know the specifics of what you are actually referring to.

 

[Chuck(G)]

Depends on what you're doing. I run NT 4.0 on a P1/233 MMX when the need arises. Don't know that I could find all the right drivers on a modern platform.

 

[creepingnet]

I feel by about the Pentium III/4 things start to feel a bit odd about it being vintage on a personal level. Of course, it could partially be because my "happy zone" is 8088-80486, and when the Pentium 4 was new, I was getting into fights with so many so-called armchair "nerds" over what I could and could n do with my 486 Dx-33 that it soured me on the platform (and Windows XP) for many, many years. They would tell me I could not put a 486 on the internet, could not burn CD's, could not watch video, could not play any video gams but "pong" and that I basically had a "dinosaur" at best and a "boat anchor" at worst. My relationship with the Pentium 4 is similar to mine with Gibson Les Pauls - the owners are what drove me nuts and caused me not to like them very much.

That said another part that makes it hard for me personally is that the Pentium 4 is a system I can still somewhat use for modern tasks. It'll run Windows 7 with lots of RAM installed, it can run Windows XP, or a lightweighth Linux Distro, and I can do all the same things I do with my current dual Xeon T5400. But why would I want to go back to doing that either when I can have much newer "iron" for a nice chunk less (ie free) and then not have to panic when I can't find DDR memory, or chasing overpriced AGP video cards for 1/100th the performance.

But I cannot deny it is a classic, for those that were kids in that era now are adults and the age I was when I was basically a "Geek Red Green" with a farm of 486s that were similar to the actual Red Greene on a property full of K-cars. And that was HUGE at that time, I remember at the time it was THE thing to have - a Pentium 4 with Windows XP was the mainstream "you're doing it right" - sort of like owning an iPhone nowadays, so of course peoeple who grew up with that are nostalgic for it just like I am having a DX4 100 that would have been about the price of a fully loaded Ford Ranger pickup of the same year, that can have 1000 DOS games loaded onto it that I wanted when they cost $45 and took up an Encyclopeida's worth of shelf space when new.

 

[Caluser2000]

I use this 3.2GHz P4 HT daily with Linux Mint Debian Edition 4 on it. I am not missing anything that I did on any MS Windows. There has been an been an intense drop with respect to system maintenance. It does all I require to do on a "modern" Internet with vary little issues at all. Firsfox-esr crashes occasionally but comes back up where it left off. I don't care what the kawl kids are using and never ever spend 1.5 grand on the latest and greatest GPU lol. Just wait until another comes out and buy the old one for pennies.

Hell I've even made so called IT "experts/professionals" cry and ban me from forums and irc channels when I tell them what my "old" systems are capable of, with clear screenshots/photos. which is fucken halerious.

 

[creepingnet]

You sound like me. I'm not welcome (not banned, just not welcome) at a certain Atari game forum anymore because I got into a fight with an armchair infosec guy...uh I mean "i.T. Professional" about putting a 486 on the internet. He claimed someone would put a "DOS Based Bitcoin Miner" on the HDD and then manage to "hack" into my modern Windows 10 or Linux box through MS-DOS, and that they could access my network even when the TCP/IP stack is not loaded because "physical hardware". I swear this must have been some college kid who has never heard of what a "single user, single tasking O/S" is or how much of a strain a DPMI can put on a Pre-Pentium CPU that's already got a TCP/IP stack, Packet Driver, VLB BIOS Extentions, SVGA graphics driver, Mouse Driver, and Super I/O driver - let alone the heck of modifying a COnfig.sys or Autoexec.bat file to get the memory to do something simple like run a game with full sound and VESA graphics or surf the web at a reasonable speed at 800x600 at 16-bit color.

I am an I.T. Professional by career, and honestly, I have run into these types in the field, they are usually the worst at their jobs. Too much book learning, not enough real-world experience. Honestly, it's not like I'm running a corporate network at my house that generates revenue, I'm running a crappy Peer-To-Peer workgroup network behind a firewall that's so piecemeal it sounds like the I.T. version of that JOhnny Cash tune "one piece at a time".

 

[Caluser2000]

You sound like me. I'm not welcome (not banned, just not welcome) at a certain Atari game forum anymore because I got into a fight with an armchair infosec guy...uh I mean "i.T. Professional" about putting a 486 on the internet. He claimed someone would put a "DOS Based Bitcoin Miner" on the HDD and then manage to "hack" into my modern Windows 10 or Linux box through MS-DOS, and that they could access my network even when the TCP/IP stack is not loaded because "physical hardware". I swear this must have been some college kid who has never heard of what a "single user, single tasking O/S" is or how much of a strain a DPMI can put on a Pre-Pentium CPU that's already got a TCP/IP stack, Packet Driver, VLB BIOS Extentions, SVGA graphics driver, Mouse Driver, and Super I/O driver - let alone the heck of modifying a COnfig.sys or Autoexec.bat file to get the memory to do something simple like run a game with full sound and VESA graphics or surf the web at a reasonable speed at 800x600 at 16-bit color.

I am an I.T. Professional by career, and honestly, I have run into these types in the field, they are usually the worst at their jobs. Too much book learning, not enough real-world experience. Honestly, it's not like I'm running a corporate network at my house that generates revenue, I'm running a crappy Peer-To-Peer workgroup network behind a firewall that's so piecemeal it sounds like the I.T. version of that JOhnny Cash tune "one piece at a time".

Yeah. They brag about their
NASs at home and have to fix the fucken thing all the time because of the problems they have with them lol . My oldies, xt tubo, 286, 3/486s up are a all hooked up directly or through a switch to our isp supplied modem/router thingy. Did you tell the twat you use NetThe NETBeui to do file transfers between systems ?

We are now on fibre so access speed to the interweb isn't a problem at all. A NAS is not required therefore I am not leet . As if I give a rats arse

 

[creepingnet]

Yeah. They brag about their
NASs at home and have to fix the fucken thing all the time because of the problems they have with them lol . My oldies, xt tubo, 286, 3/486s up are a all hooked up directly or through a switch to our isp supplied modem/router thingy. Did you tell the twat you use NetThe NETBeui to do file transfers between systems ?

We are now on fibre so access speed to the interweb isn't a problem at all. A NAS is not required therefore I am not leet . As if I give a rats arse

I don't use NetBEUI currently - I'm mostly using FTP with mTCP currently as I've been moving away from Windows full time almost around here. The only thinkg keeping me from using my DX4 as a daily driver this point is the lack of a TLS capable e-mail client and a YouTube client for DOS, lol.

My wife had a P4 that would not die. It was a Dell Dimension 4600 - we ran WIn7 on that thing till we gave it to a local kid who was into retro-computing and needed a good bench tester. She had that thing from 2003-2017. I recorded all my Five Nights at Freddy's Les Plays on it, Markiplier was using what? A Core i7? I was doing all mine in 32-bit XP with 3GB of RAM on a P4 2.6GHz.. Even more hilarious is I almost got FNaF to run under 95' on the 486 - it made it to the opening screen before closing back out.

 

[Caluser2000]

I don't use NetBEUI currently - I'm mostly using FTP with mTCP currently as I've been moving away from Windows full time almost around here. The only thinkg keeping me from using my DX4 as a daily driver this point is the lack of a TLS capable e-mail client and a YouTube client for DOS, lol.

My wife had a P4 that would not die. It was a Dell Dimension 4600 - we ran WIn7 on that thing till we gave it to a local kid who was into retro-computing and needed a good bench tester. She had that thing from 2003-2017. I recorded all my Five Nights at Freddy's Les Plays on it, Markiplier was using what? A Core i7? I was doing all mine in 32-bit XP with 3GB of RAM on a P4 2.6GHz.. Even more hilarious is I almost got FNaF to run under 95' on the 486 - it made it to the opening screen before closing back out.

There is certainly some advantages in sticking with the trailing edge ah? The only new system I owned was my 286/16 clone. That got up graded to a pre-loved 486 mobo then to a pre-loved P1 mobo with Petium 133 some years later. For some strange reason Dos/win 3.1x kept getting faster with every upgrade . After that a second hand IBM PC300 mini tower with Win98rtm on it, then various P4s with XP then switched over to using Linux full time 17 years ago. I have no regrets what so ever. Folk just keep giving me old shit so I make full use of.

I got given A Core 2 Duo in a really huge heavy ugly as ugly gamer case you could use as a stool. Fans for Africa, half of which were not even hooked up to power. Apparently it looked kawl to the previous owner. I gutted it and scrapped that case and put only the necessary innards, which included a G-Farce GPU thingy , Into a smaller far more pleasing looking case. All I use that for at the moment is testing 64-bit Linux Distros.

 

[mR_Slug]

Up until recently i was still using a dual PIII 1GHz system quite a bit. I managed to get a few dual P2 and P3 systems in the early 2000s as I predicted these will cost a lot in the future. Have you seen the prices of some of this stuff now? Still use XP semi-regularly on a 775 xeon system, or is that 771, I don't recall. I have no P4 systems, only Xeon and a dual Athlon somewhere. I started collecting these systems years ago. I attempted to switch my desktop/fileserver to slackware a few years ago. Successful, but I never got around to installing X. To be honest with the hike in electricity costs i'd be better off with some Atom based thing. I do most of my work on an old T60 with windows 7. Have got to switch to Linux though.

About the only reason I can see for a modern system is gaming, and I still haven't got round to playing GTA4 so I'm like 15 years behind on that front.

Vogons has quite a lot of P3 and later stuff thats classed as vintage. I forget what the cut-off is on ultimateRetro is, but it's stuff that's foreign to me. I focus on the older stuff. I think up to P3 is retro now, so I'd be in favor of a forum for that. P4 stuff is debatable IMHO.