5170 Floppy dual floppy drive issue

I bought a 5170 for $10 at a computer repair shop that was going out of business today. It came with 2 The Personal Computer Hardware Reference library one with the floppies, Disk Operating System 3.20 book but no software, Windows 3.1 manual, and a storyboard program. All the parts have never left each other (evident by the Methodist Church stamp on all the books and the computer/monitor/keyboard)

It is in pretty good condition and it runs but it won't boot up from the 5" floppy.
The drive it has is not standard and it appears to be two drives in one. The top is a 3" and the bottom 5". When the computer turns on it looks at both but when I press F1 to run the setup it only checks the top drive but not the bottom one. They share the same cable labeled A.

Thanks for any help.

It is normal for both A: and B: drives to be 'checked' on power on, but a boot only attempted from A: drive.
I'm unaware of your non-standard combination drive, but it sounds like the 3.5" slot is configured as A: and the 5.25" slot is configured as B:
Therefore I suggest that you try a 3.5" boot disk.

Are you seeing any error messages, and if so, what are they?

Does the unit have a hard drive?

Yes the unit has a hard drive but I am assuming that it is either empty or corrupted because it doesn't boot from it. I do get an error message. It is System Options Not Set -(run Setup)
Thats what I was trying to do. I read somewhere that the computer wouldn't boot successfully from a 3.5".

Have you ever seen a combination drive? I've been looking around for info on it but I can none.

jaeg said:

I do get an error message. It is System Options Not Set -(run Setup)

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Okay. By the error message, it sounds like your 5170 has the original IBM supplied motherboard.

On the IBM supplied motherboard, there is no built-in way to alter the setup information. You either run the setup functionality on the IBM Advanced Diagnostics disk, or you can run a generic setup program (such as GSETUP.EXE at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/software.htm).

I presume you know that if the battery is dead, your 5170 won't be able to retain the setup information (once it is set).

jaeg said:

Thats what I was trying to do. I read somewhere that the computer wouldn't boot successfully from a 3.5".

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If your IBM 5170 motherboard has the first BIOS revision, that will be the case. If it has the second BIOS revision, it will be able to boot from 720K, but not a 1.44M diskette. If it has the third BIOS revision, you'll be able to boot from either 720K/1.44M.

Give a 3.5" boot disk a shot.
If it works, you go down the path of creating a 3.5" boot disk with a generic setup program on it (as described at http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showpost.php?p=53446&postcount=38).
If it doesn't work, you then go down the path of getting a 360K or 1.2M drive going as A:, then using either the IBM Advanced Diagnostics disk, or a 5.25" boot disk with a generic setup program on it.

jaeg said:

Have you ever seen a combination drive? I've been looking around for info on it but I can none.

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No.

If you would like I could image my DOS 3.3 3 1/2 disk and you could give that a try... I really don't know of a way to make it boot off B: when it's in a combo drive like that!

Also orther members here could I am sure get the AT Dia. working on a 3 1/2 disk also!

jaeg said:

Yes the unit has a hard drive but I am assuming that it is either empty or corrupted because it doesn't boot from it.

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It's not booting from the hard drive because of the loss of the setup information.
Once you've run the setup and entered the hard drive type number in there, your 5170 should then boot from the hard drive (presuming drive is serviceable and bootable).

If your 5170 has the original hard drive, you can use the list below to determine the drive type number to input into the setup.
Drives that I know/heard IBM supplied in the 5170:

CMI 6426 (20MB) = type 2
Seagate ST-4026 (20MB) = type 2
Seagate ST-225 (20MB) = type 2
IBM 0665 (30MB) = type 20
Seagate ST-4038 (30MB) = type 20

If not listed above, post the make/model. From that we can determine the geometry (cylinders/heads ...) and match that to the list of types supported by the 5170 motherboard BIOS (at http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=12995).

Combination drives (3.5"HD and 5.25"HD) drives, while not extactly common as salt are not exactly rare either. I have several of them.

All the ones I have allow you to set (via a set of jumpers) which drive is A: and which is B: and is usually evident from the back of the drive.

The most common way this was done was a set of 4 (or so) pairs of staking pins set as closed/open/closed/open or something similar. It is, if I'm reading correctly, currently set to have the 3.5" drive as A:

Moving the jumpers into the opposite positions from the current should make the 5.25" HD drive your boot drive.

I just figured that out. It required two jumpers. I got it to boot from the disk fixed the setup info restarted it and it loaded dos from the harddrive.

On the harddrive's label it said 20 and it is a 30meg harddrive so I'm guessing the label told the truth based on the chart you provided modem7.

This was a church computer and I'm curious what software is on it. It has a program called storyboard installed which I have the disks for.

Thank for the help guys. I'm going to start cleaning the system now. The outside is slightly grimy but its not stained. Except for the drive I think everything is original. All the equipment and books have a stamp on them so I figure they all came together originally so that is a nice plus.

Thanks again.

We're always glad to help out.

Try getting that kind of service from FutureShop LOL

While I already have a topic going. Any idea on how to get rid of some burn-in on the monitor. The previous own must have let the computer sit on for a while.

jaeg said:

While I already have a topic going. Any idea on how to get rid of some burn-in on the monitor. The previous own must have let the computer sit on for a while.

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Screen burn is where sections of phosphor of the inside face of the cathode ray tube have been fully/partially burnt away over time.
The only fix is to replace the cathode ray tube (which almost always makes the monitor uneconomical to repair).

Oh, ok. Thanks anyway.

I just love the combined 3.5 and 5 inch floppy drives. Think I own 2 of them already, likely will get one or two more. As explained, and as you found out, move the jumpers and which one is drive A: changes.

Combined floppies

Combined floppies

There's great, I agree. I just wish that some mobo manufacturers weren't moving towards only supporting 1 floppy. I wonder how long it'll be before you can't hook up a floppy to a motherboard with out an expansion card ?

patscc

I now that the new floppies that come in those 100 packs can be unreliable. I read somewhere how a guy compared the failure rate right of the box and after use. The older ones we a lot better.

Is there a big difference between the old and new 3.5"? I was trying to get it to read a several new ones but it sounds like it locks up inside. The one that come with the story board program works. (It came with both 3.5" and 5")

patscc said:

There's great, I agree. I just wish that some mobo manufacturers weren't moving towards only supporting 1 floppy. I wonder how long it'll be before you can't hook up a floppy to a motherboard with out an expansion card ?

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Personally, I wonder how long there will be slots on the motherboard into which to plug expansion cards. My HP ePc certainly doesn't have any. And USB floppy drives aren't quite the same thing.