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Testing my Soundblaster

P

per

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Joined
Jan 21, 2008
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I know it sound stupid, but it is realy a pain to find some software that:
  1. Utilizes the Soundblaster (or SB Pro)
  2. Is written in pure x86 (works with the 8088 in other words)
  3. Works with anything earlier than EGA (not including EGA)
  4. Runs right off a Floppy Disk
  5. Does not relay on the later revisions of the XT BIOS (Int 15h) or specialities of the AT-design (secondary DMA controller, etc...)
I have no clue about what games/programs that will work, but I have tested with one game, the DOS version of EPYX's Chip's Challenge.

The results from the test are:
This game is mainly designed for the AT, but somehow it does work in an XT too. The only difference is that the speed is about 2/3 it is on an AT. The game got support for a wide set of devices (from Hercules to EGA/VGA, from PC-Speaker to Roland, keyboard or joystic). It doesn't got pure SoundBlaster support, but it got AdLib support.

With the PC-speaker as sound-device, it works great, but it takes a while to load.

With AdLib as sound-device, It runs fine, I get sound, but when I exit the program, my XT locks up on the DOS-prompt (just as if the keyboard has been de-attached).

Anyway, AdLib emulation does at least work with my SB Pro2 card in my XT.
 
You'll have a hard time finding a game that has digital sounds that will run on your XT...you won't have enough horsepower to run such a game.
The games supporting the Sb Pro came in 1991
I don't think you can call it "Adlib emulation" since the Sb Pro 2 has an OPL3 chip which is backward compatible to the OPL2 chip found on the original Adlib card
 
per said:
I know it sound stupid, but it is realy a pain to find some software that:
  1. Utilizes the Soundblaster (or SB Pro)
  2. Is written in pure x86 (works with the 8088 in other words)
  3. Works with anything earlier than EGA (not including EGA)
  4. Runs right off a Floppy Disk
  5. Does not relay on the later revisions of the XT BIOS (Int 15h) or specialities of the AT-design (secondary DMA controller, etc...)
Click to expand...

8088 Corruption should work fine, but you'll have to have to take one of the example files on the website and chop off much of the end of the file to make it fit onto a floppy disk. If that's too daunting, I could make a custom boot disk for you with a sample movie.

There are lots of games that work on XT with sound blaster, although some of the earliest ones use fixed irq settings and you might not hear the audio if the card isn't at those settings. Stellar 7, Rise of the Dragon, Prince of Persia, and Tongue of the Fatman are the very earliest games that had Sound Blaster digital sound support.

If you don't mind a crappy replay rate (like 8KHz) I suppose I could make my modplayer available; this will play any .MOD that will fit into memory. Let me know if there is interest.
 
Amigaz said:
You'll have a hard time finding a game that has digital sounds that will run on your XT...you won't have enough horsepower to run such a game.
Click to expand...

Actually, they arrived in 1989 with the original Sound Blaster. And digital sound on the XT actually freed up CPU time if you used DMA.
 
Trixter said:
If you don't mind a crappy replay rate (like 8KHz) I suppose I could make my modplayer available; this will play any .MOD that will fit into memory. Let me know if there is interest.
Click to expand...

<in a excited, somewhat gravelly voice> Ooo ooo, me me. I became I total .mod addict in 1991. Still kicking myself as I managed to lose a disk image that had my last backup. Slowly finding the ones I really liked again on various mod archive websites. You can keep the repetitive BORING Rave type electro to yourself, thanks very much.
 
Eh... having second thoughts. Mine works but badly. Galaxy Player 2.12 is just so much more powerful (he pulls all sorts of crazy tricks that I am still trying to figure out). Try downloading GLX212.ZIP and using that -- if you can't get that to work, then I can make my crappy player available. (Yes, crappy, as it was a proof of concept more than a usable player...)
 
Trixter said:
8088 Corruption should work fine, but you'll have to have to take one of the example files on the website and chop off much of the end of the file to make it fit onto a floppy disk. If that's too daunting, I could make a custom boot disk for you with a sample movie.
Click to expand...

That would be great.

My XT got 512Kb of RAM, so IDK how big the movie can be before it have to re-buffer. (the documentation to 8088 corruption states something about rebuffering from floppy-disk.)
 
The ADlib was my first sound card, piece of crap by todays standards, but
when I plugged it into my 8mhz Turbo XT and played Space Quest III, wooooooooooo hooooooooooooooo..

I'm hoping to get one back someday if anyone ever sells one.. I also need an XT, heheheheh

:)
 
per said:
That would be great.

My XT got 512Kb of RAM, so IDK how big the movie can be before it have to re-buffer. (the documentation to 8088 corruption states something about rebuffering from floppy-disk.)
Click to expand...

If you have more RAM than the size of the movie file, it will buffer it completely into RAM. I tested last night when that wasn't the case, and while it rebuffered constantly, the player still worked, so no matter what happens you should be covered.

I created a 360K-sized player+movie file you can use to test 8088 Corruption on floppy-only systems. Grab the files only (8088DISF.ZIP) or an entire disk image (8088DISI.ZIP) from the 8088 Corruption website, your choice. The disk image is not bootable (I got two more seconds of video by not including the OS) so you'll need to boot first.
 
per said:
I know it sound stupid, but it is realy a pain to find some software that:
  1. Utilizes the Soundblaster (or SB Pro)
  2. Is written in pure x86 (works with the 8088 in other words)
  3. Works with anything earlier than EGA (not including EGA)
  4. Runs right off a Floppy Disk
  5. Does not relay on the later revisions of the XT BIOS (Int 15h) or specialities of the AT-design (secondary DMA controller, etc...)
I have no clue about what games/programs that will work, but I have tested with one game, the DOS version of EPYX's Chip's Challenge.

The results from the test are:
This game is mainly designed for the AT, but somehow it does work in an XT too. The only difference is that the speed is about 2/3 it is on an AT. The game got support for a wide set of devices (from Hercules to EGA/VGA, from PC-Speaker to Roland, keyboard or joystic). It doesn't got pure SoundBlaster support, but it got AdLib support.

With the PC-speaker as sound-device, it works great, but it takes a while to load.

With AdLib as sound-device, It runs fine, I get sound, but when I exit the program, my XT locks up on the DOS-prompt (just as if the keyboard has been de-attached).

Anyway, AdLib emulation does at least work with my SB Pro2 card in my XT.
Click to expand...

Hello Per, beleive it or not i actually put in the SB16 card in my XT, found a nice 17 inch monitor in a dumpster.

I hooked it up with the graphic card i found in a drawer fliped some switches. Works like a charm 512 KB graphic memory 720*400 native dos resolution. Today i will try to install SB drivers to make the soundcard work.

I am still interested to see if i can get the midiport up and working, i guess there is a mpu driver with the early SB cards.

Would be nice if we could keep this thread open for software that will run on XT, both midi and audio.

I will start posting my findings of audio and midisoftware, here as soon i get the SB16 up working.
I have not yet found a good mouse and it bugs me since i want win 3.1 up and running.

I hope you find some good audiosoftware.

JT
 
I never did test the midi/gameport on my SB16 in my 8086.. I think the joystick part works, but not sure about the MIDI port. I'm sure that should work too..

Still trying to fix my yamaha DX7..
 
I've now gotten the time to test it.

It takes years to load, of course, but it actually works after it's done loading!

Anyways, I don't know if it's because my brother damadged his earphones (he told me he did, but not exactly in what way), or because of the output of the SB itself, but the volume sounded less than when I tested AdLib support last week.

Anyways, I got picture, I got syncronized sound, and I got the correct framerate.
 
Commander Keen 4-6 CGA will work tolerably on a 5150, however I believe they only use Adlib, not Sound Blaster for sound and effects. Space Quest III and King's Quest I SCI should produce digital sound with the Sound Blaster driver found with the latter game, although running those games off floppies is a test of patience.
 
Great Hierophant said:
Commander Keen 4-6 CGA will work tolerably on a 5150, however I believe they only use Adlib, not Sound Blaster for sound and effects. Space Quest III and King's Quest I SCI should produce digital sound with the Sound Blaster driver found with the latter game, although running those games off floppies is a test of patience.
Click to expand...

Running those games off of a hard drive is a test of patience. :) The SCI interpreter was (re)built for flexibility and scripter/author friendlyness, not speed. AGI was, but not SCI.

I have to give a shout-out for Commander Keen episodes 4-6 CGA, because that is one of the three finest 2-d platform engines I have ever seen. Run it on an XT and, while it is not lightening, it is still quite playable -- and if you know what an XT is (not) capable of, you marvel at the full-screen update speed.
 
Trixter said:
I have to give a shout-out for Commander Keen episodes 4-6 CGA, because that is one of the three finest 2-d platform engines I have ever seen. Run it on an XT and, while it is not lightening, it is still quite playable -- and if you know what an XT is (not) capable of, you marvel at the full-screen update speed.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Carmack, Hall & Romero knew how to program a PC. I tried Keen 1 in EGA and while it took some time to load, the game itself was perfectly playable. I wonder if the EGA versions of 4-6, which also belt out Adlib tunes, will be as playable. If so, I would be speechless.
 
Great Hierophant said:
Indeed, Carmack, Hall & Romero knew how to program a PC. I tried Keen 1 in EGA and while it took some time to load, the game itself was perfectly playable. I wonder if the EGA versions of 4-6, which also belt out Adlib tunes, will be as playable. If so, I would be speechless.
Click to expand...

Prepare to be speechless :)

Keen 1, Romero told me, was actually somewhat crappily-programmed: It repaints the entire screen every frame. The "trick" was that most of the memory transfers were videoram-to-videoram, as the memory didn't have to travel through the PC bus to get to the card. The only hardware scrolling was horizonal pixelpan which can offset the screen from 1 to 7 pixels, and start address which is for vertical. And split-screen for the status display. So it's a good engine, but not a great one :)

Keen 4 through 6 is a different engine, and much smarter, in that everything happens on a virtual screen in system RAM and only what is absolutely needed to be repainted is repainted. Meaning, when you scroll left, only the sprites are drawn/erased and only the new landscape/background coming in on the left is painted. Then the virtual screen is blasted to video ram as fast as possible.

Which is better/faster to implement? Depends on the game. If you have simple 16x16 tile backgrounds and small sprites, like Keen 1, then the first way is usually best. If you have complex layered backgrounds, the second way is best.

I talked to some guys at Quicksilver a decade ago for a project that never materialized, and Karnov was written the same way as Keen 4-6 (before Keen was written, obviously), which is why it is also playable on CGA+8088.
 
Trixter said:
Prepare to be speechless :)

Keen 1, Romero told me, was actually somewhat crappily-programmed: It repaints the entire screen every frame. The "trick" was that most of the memory transfers were videoram-to-videoram, as the memory didn't have to travel through the PC bus to get to the card. The only hardware scrolling was horizonal pixelpan which can offset the screen from 1 to 7 pixels, and start address which is for vertical. And split-screen for the status display. So it's a good engine, but not a great one :)
Click to expand...

I never knew that. I guess they probably used EGA write mode 1 which can copy 8 4-bit pixels at once with a single 8-bit read operation followed by a single 8-bit write operation (all 4 bit planes copied at once), and that that helped the copy speed quite a bit too.

This will make you laugh - back when I was young and stupid and didn't know any better, I tried to hack Keen 1 into working on my PC1512. I knew the code itself was fine because I could run the game and hear the sound effects as I jumped and moved, I just couldn't see anything. I figured that if I could find the int 0x10 call that sets the EGA mode and change it to switch to a CGA graphics mode (4 or 5), and if I could find the place a segment register was being loaded with 0xa000 and change it to 0xb800, then I would be able to see something on the screen. The graphics would be screwed up but I thought there was a vague chance it would be playable and possibly even fun. Now I know it wouldn't have been as easy as that... I looked for a while but I think these bits of code must have been in an overlay or something funky. Soon after that we got the 486 so I was able to play the game as it was meant to be seen.
 
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