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Apple lle upgrades - Your opinions please

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bettablue

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
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Location
Eugene, OR
:eek:nfire:First off, I just got my Apple lle delivered last night. My lifelong best friend just brought it from Utah and we immediately set it up. It powered on OK with no problem at all. I love the design. Here is what I have. The main CPU, dual floppy drive deck and monochrome monitor with green display. The dual floppy deck sits between the main CPU case and monitor. Inside there are only three cards, one for video, floppy controller, and finally a memory module. Everything worked fine when we connected it, but after getting it into BASIC and entering a small program to check it out, the monitor suddenly lost power and we could not get it to power on again. :rip: Bummer! I was looking forward to trying to remember some of my old BASIC programs with it today. :computer:

I had forgotten so much about these computers. It really is no wonder that these old machines last as long as they do. :king: Mechanical key switches, monitors with adjustable angle built into the casing, integrated keyboard. These computers made over-engineering an art form. :transformer: So with all of that in mind, I want to take this computer to a level that would make Steve Jobs proud.

I know computers this old cannot come close to the functionality of today’s systems but at the same time, I am really amazed at the capabilities of the Apple lle. I have seen them doing some pretty incredible things. So, what would you recommend I start out with? :frankenstein: Where can I look for either repairing the monitor or getting an authentic color replacement with the appropriate video controller? (Aside from EBay, that is. I really hate auctions, even though that's how we got the computer for only $12.50)

Here is my wish list. If there is something I am missing, please feel free to add to my list. If possible, could you also include part number and brand of the accessory cards and upgrades? Thanks much.

:cool3: My Current Wish List :cool2:

1. Obviously, add more memory
2. Upgrade the video to color, 16 color will be acceptable, but 256 would be preferable.
3. Add sound capability to play mp3s
4. Add a mouse and possibly joystick control
5. Video playback from either an internal or external source.
6. Get it configured for gaming.
7. If at all possible, get it to connect to the Internet, or even just to my home PC for file sharing and storage.
8. Possibly, upgrade the OS to something with a Graphical User Interface.
9. Possibly add an internal or external hard drive for storage of BASIC programs and any other files I create with it.

:medic: Can I do these without having to replace the motherboard? If I do need a new board, how difficult is it to replace?

So there you have it my friends. :clap: I know I have an old machine and want it do be able to do more that it was originally designed for, but at the same time, I also know that there really is nothing on my list that can’t be accomplished. :computer: These truly are amazing computers. :bow2:
 
bettablue said:
So there you have it my friends. :clap: I know I have an old machine and want it do be able to do more that it was originally designed for, but at the same time, I also know that there really is nothing on my list that can't be accomplished. :computer: These truly are amazing computers. :bow2:
Click to expand...

Well, I doubt #5 can be accomplished. You can't watch video on an 8-bit computer (unless it's a customized/optimized animation, rather than real "video"). This is even difficult with a 68k processor.

You can probably forget MP3s too. (again, unless converted/reduced)

I do applaud your attempt to push the machine to its limits. That's where I get the most satisfaction from playing with old computers.

Posted from my 1987 Amiga 500. :)
 
bettablue said:
Here is my wish list. If there is something I am missing, please feel free to add to my list. If possible, could you also include part number and brand of the accessory cards and upgrades? Thanks much.

:cool3: My Current Wish List :cool2:

1. Obviously, add more memory
2. Upgrade the video to color, 16 color will be acceptable, but 256 would be preferable.
3. Add sound capability to play mp3s
4. Add a mouse and possibly joystick control
5. Video playback from either an internal or external source.
6. Get it configured for gaming.
7. If at all possible, get it to connect to the Internet, or even just to my home PC for file sharing and storage.
8. Possibly, upgrade the OS to something with a Graphical User Interface.
9. Possibly add an internal or external hard drive for storage of BASIC programs and any other files I create with it.
Click to expand...

1. You have several options for adding more memory to the computer, but as far as I konw you might have togo the auction route to get it. You can always do a Google search to find out what memory expansion cards are available for the IIe.

2. On the other hand I don't beleive the color can be upgraded beyond 16 colors.

3. As someone mentioned in your other thread Vince Briel is working on a card to play MP3's on the Apple II.

4. Mouse and/or joystick - joysticks are pretty easy to find, I'm not sure how easy a mouse card and mouse will be.

5.Not sure on video playback, but anything is possible.

6. Configuring for gaming is easy, just download disk images from several spots on the web and use ADTPro to transfer them back to the IIe.

7. Vince Briel has the Uthernet card, which is what you'll need to get it online. To connect to your PC again ADTPro is probably the best.

8. For a GUI on the IIe you'll need GEOS, which you can find on the net or I can e-mail copies of the disks.

9. For mass storage on the IIe your best bet is probably something like MicroDrive from Reactive Micro.

Dean
 
In all reality to sum it up, look at it like this. You can make a 1967 VW Bug do 200 miles per hour, but when your done all you have left of the original car is the shell at best. To make a IIe do what you want as outlined in your list, it would be the same scenario.
 
I recommend you take some baby steps with your //e before trying to max it out. Adding more RAM past 128K won't help you unless you're planning to use power apps, utils... games rarely use more than 48K or 64K.

Any color analog monitor will do -- they're not rare, and cheap enough -- or you could use your TV even.

Don't bother with a graphical interface. If you want a GUI, get an Apple IIGS or a Mac.
 
Also, those monochrome monitors are easy to fix. If it's totally dead, it could just be the power switch getting flakey, a corroded fuse holder/blown fuse, etc. Open it up and make sure you're getting power past the fuse and switch to the board.

As others have pointed out, any composite monitor will work. Monochrome is best for things with 80 column text (gets real fuzzy on a color monitor), and color is best for games. The Apple Color Monitor is one of the few that works OK for 80 columns - they had some built in tricks in that monitor to improve the video bandwidth.

-Ian
 
This is all great information. The analogy of the Volkswagen is a good one to make the comparison with too. I will definitely look into the monitor fuse and check the switch assembly. There wasn't anythin to indicate that there was a bproblem so I bet that is the case. As for the rest, I though going to audio and video were pushing things too far, but I do love some of the things I CAN do. I would still love to get a color display and controler for it though. As for add-on cards, like I mentioned, there is nothing in this particular machine that is over what it would have had when new, so it is pretty much a clean slate to start with. The first thing I need to do is see about cleaning it up and getting the monitor to work. I'll worry about the rest later.

Thanks everybody. You gave me pretty much everything I needed to know to get started. Now if I can get hold of an IBM 5150, I'll be set.
 
Note that the builtin (not a card) video is already color. Just use a color composite monitor (or, as suggested before, connect to a TV with a composite input)...

I'd second the motion of using ADTPro via serial port (Super Serial card) - I do this with my ][+.
 
I have both IIe's and IIgs's. Each one does its own thing, I enjoy both.

I use the IIe as a "true II", doing the things a II did great in its heyday. The great games, BASIC, COMPUTE magazine type-ins, and so on.

I use the GS as the pseudo-modern system. I do a lot of standard II stuff on it as well, but it plays newer games, runs 3.5" and 5.25" disks, talks to my Macs, etc. I've also moved my SoftCard into a gs since I like using the capacity of the 3.5 drives with CP/M--more standard software fits on the larger drive.

I have a pair of monitors that switch between color and monochrome modes that I use. They're very handy with Apples. I also have a couple of monochrome monitors and a number of standard color composite monitors that move around from system to system.

What to add? I'd recommend getting memory to 128K if it isn't already, get an SD Card based storage option that uses a filesystem you can read/write on current systems, and a super serial card. The II is a great system that can do a lot. Don't just charge past it and start turning it into something else. Love it for what it is, and base your buying on what makes it easier to use as a classic, rather than trying to do a gimped job that a current system does.

Play Wizardry, Ultima II.

Type in programs from old magazines and get some programming books. I consider Call A.P.P.L.E. to be indispensable. Learn how the guts work. Check out some great demoscene hacks, and write or recreate hacks yourself.

The II is a cool system without being a modern computer. You can get into the guts of it soooo easily. Get some solid state relays and control something (Radio Shack used to sell a robot arm that was a fun hack, or hook the relays across control switches for a cheap RC car toy and teach the Apple to drive!) It'll do things under your control that's harder to do with modern systems.

Most of all, have fun! :)
 
Yeah, the IIe is definitely one of my favorite machines. As others have said, you really want a couple of useful things for it:
- 64k/80 column card, plugs into the AUX slot on the left. Give you 128k total memory and 80 column text. This is a must have for anything other than games, since the stock IIe can only do 40 column text
- Disk II or Apple Disk controller - to talk to 5 1/4" floppy drives. You have one, with your DuoDisk. Goes in slot 6
- Super Serial card - usually goes in slot 1 or 2, this is what you want for communicating with the outside world.

With those basic things, you can do a *lot* with your Apple IIe. With the SSC you can connect the computer to a modern PC - and in *nix systems it's a trivial matter to use the Apple IIe as a terminal, so you can go online, chat on IRC, check email, etc, all from the IIe's keyboard (the PC does all the heavy lifting, but still. It's fun, and the IIe has such a great keyboard)

With the serial card, you can transfer disk images in about 30 seconds, and build up your library of Apple II software. Note that very few Apple IIe systems had hard disks - they were just too expensive at the time. Dos 3.3 can't use a hard drive, nor can it use 3 1/2" floppies. For that, you need ProDOS. ProDOS is a very powerful OS - but don't go expecting to store a bunch of games on a hard drive and run them, as most games are self booting, and contain their own OS - they are meant to be booted directly from floppy. It's doable, but it's nowhere near as easy (or as compatible) as just using the floppies. Floppies on the Apple II systems are incredibly reliable.

If you want pointing and clicking, get an Apple II mouse card - they are pretty common, and let the IIe use the same mouse that the Mac 128k/512k/Plus/Lisa uses. The card usually goes in slot 4. Not very many things support it, but MouseDesk is a cool GUI that looks like the Mac, and MousePaint is a very nice paint program, essentially a clone of MacPaint.

If you have a parallel printer and want to use it with the IIe, there are dozens of parallel cards out there (and are quite litereally a dime a dozen), so you can easily get a paralles card - usually it goes in slot 1. Any standard parallel printer/card combination will work for text, for graphic printing it gets a little trickier to find a working combination, but the Epson printer with a Grappler card was a common setup.

One kind of rare card that's worth looking for is the Apple 1MB memory expansion. It's a RAM card, expandable to 1 megabyte. It's not used for system memory, but rather, a RAM disk - kind of like a wicked fast hard drive. ProDOS automatically sees it at powerup, and you can copy files into it. The contents persist through resets, so you can boot one disk (say, Kermit), and transfer a bunch of shrinkit files into the RAM disk, then reset and boot the Shrinkit disk, and decompress the archives onto other floppies. Makes working with large files on the IIe simple. This card usually goes in slot 5. Note that it's a RAM disk, so contents are lost when you switch off the computer.

Yes, there are some new expansion cards you can get. The Uthernet card is quite cool, but it's not supported by very much on the IIe other than ADT or Contiki. I find that the Super Serial Card is more flexible. There are also hard disk type cards, using Compact Flash or SD cards - and I've not had any experience with them, but I do have the Apple II SCSI card. Hard disks on the IIe are nice, but at the same time, I find I don't use it much. The combination of the floppies and the RAM disk is good enough.

-Ian
 
Ive been experimenting with similar things. To add a bit more functionality, but not loose my classic IIe feel. I designed an FPGA card for the IIe, but found that not too many people were into writing VHDL, so a community devopment approach sorta stopped. So my next experiment was based on leveraging the functionality of emulators, such as two-apple, kegs, linapple and so on. The the idea is to see if execuitng code on these emulators is capable of executing hardware cycles on the real hardware. Step 1 - was to build a linux platform and get a small program running that accessed and exercised the apple hardware - thats as far as I have got so far. If it works, adding new devices, both hardware and software can easily achieved by the plug on linux platform. ie - wireless ethernet, SD cards, Bluetooth, serial, DRAM memory, MP3 decoding, brooktree video decoding and so on. My prototype board was based on a Texas Instruments OMAP 3530 700MHZ ARM7 processor running linux (in the form of a gumstix module). The front side bus of the ARM9 (AHB) is level translated to the Apple IIe's 6502 socket with the ARM7's wait pin being used to synchronise into the 1.023MHZ phase 0 clock.

I now have the arm booting and the next step is to tie into the Apple's IIe's bus and test hardware accesses. It all looks like this when plugged up;

http://www.applelogic.org/files/ARM7+A2E.JPG

Steve
 
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