• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

TRS-80 Model II/12 Questions

C

Chromedome45

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
3,993
Location
Central Florida
As title says a have a few questions about the Model II/12.

1st is the 12 just an updated Model II with 2 8" high density drives, And white in color?

2nd where can one get any software for it like TRS-DOS 2.0?

3rd Is there a good source for 8" floppies at a reasonable price?

4th is it software compatible with the Model I, III or IV?

That should do it for now.
 
Chromedome45 said:
As title says a have a few questions about the Model II/12.

1st is the 12 just an updated Model II with 2 8" high density drives, And white in color?
No. The model 12 is more like a stripped-down model 16/6000...
2nd where can one get any software for it like TRS-DOS 2.0?

3rd Is there a good source for 8" floppies at a reasonable price?

4th is it software compatible with the Model I, III or IV?

That should do it for now.
Click to expand...

Sorry I don't have more than this... :D
 
Chromedome45 said:
1st is the 12 just an updated Model II with 2 8" high density drives, And white in color?
Click to expand...

Actually, it goes something like this, I believe:

a: A *16* is a white II with two slimline drives stuffed into the place where the II's single full-height went. (And, of course, the 68000 CPU card.)

b: The 12 has a redesigned front face that puts a space between the two drives and various internal modifications to make it more expandable. (Larger card cage, one of the drive bays can accommodate an internal hard drive instead of a floppy.)

c: A "16B" is a 12 with the 68000 card.

b: I'm fuzzy on what distinguishes a 6000 from a 16B

2nd where can one get any software for it like TRS-DOS 2.0?
Click to expand...

The Internet being what it is I'm sure sufficient Googling will find some disk images. Getting them on actual media is a challenge.

3rd Is there a good source for 8" floppies at a reasonable price?
Click to expand...

Good luck there, of course.

With a little hacking (making some custom cables, etc.) it's possible to substitute a PC AT-style 1.2MB HD floppy directly for the 8" drives and have it work with no software modifications. Obviously it'll look pretty weird. Under UNIX on a 16/6000 you can also use 3.5" HD drives, there *may* be a patch for TRS-DOS.

4th is it software compatible with the Model I, III or IV?
Click to expand...

Almost "not at all", but supposedly there is a special version of LS-DOS that runs on it and makes it partially compatible with Model 4 software. It's completely incompatible with the I/III.
 
I thought the 6000 had a hard drive and potential to have both CPU cards at the same time but I never owned one so not sure on the details. I thought there was a jumper or something to tell it which CPU card to use.
 
Both cards? As in the Z80 and 68K? Both are always used. I seem to remember from my Xenix days that Xenix even uses the Z80 for I/O activities.
 
The Model 2 had a passive 'mainboard' and all the working parts were daughterboards.
The 16 and 16b (with 2 slimline FDs - 16b had updated direct-drive FDs) had an active mainboard (z80) and used the card cage for video and 68k additions.
The 12 was a stripped-down 16/16b - no 68k hardware and direct-drive FDs.
The 6000 gave up one of the FDs in exchange for ONE internal HD...

I miss my 12... :(

... but I don't miss carrying it. :p
 
I decided not to get the Model 12. But if anyone is interested look in the Orlando Craigslist under TRS-80 or Vintage computer. If your local to the area might be worth checking out he has 2 of them.
 
This page has pictures of a II, 16, 12, and a 16b on it:

http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/modelii.html

You can see the difference in drive spacing between the 16 and 12. The 16b has the 12's drives spacing but the appearance of the case is substantially different. (The entire front benzel isn't black, it has a white area betwqeen the monitor and the drives.) The 16B they picture also happens to have an internal hard drive. (Checking the 1984 RSC-10 Radio Shack computer catalog page 4 they list a "NEW! Built-in hard disk!" configuration with an internal 15mb HD. So that was not limited to the 6000.) The 6000 turns up in the 1985 RSC-14, with the apparent difference being the 68000's clock speed has gone from 6 to 8mhz and the memory ceiling has been raised from 768k to 1Mb. The 12 is still listed that late, and it still retains the styled-more-like-the-II-and-16 front bezel.

Turning back the clock to 1983's RSC-08 you can compare the 16 and II; the case design is identical other than color. Thumbing through the 16's service manual on archive.org:

http://archive.org/details/trs80_model_16_service_manual

it looks like the 16 is still a passive backplane, not the single-board Z-80+card cage design of the 12 and onward. (It appears to be a lot harder, however, to find the service manual for a 12/16B/6000 than for the II or 16, so sort of hitting a wall in trying to find what definitively sorts those out.)
 
Out of curiosity why'd you pass on it? It's more like the model II and z80 based, it just doesn't do the 68000 stuff. As leeb said and I agree after finding a few different models.. they're interesting beasts but damn I don't like moving them :) I wouldn't consider it a stripped down 16 ;-) a 16 and 6000 are the top models in features and price. Here's a review of the model 12 (replacement/upgrade for the II) from InfoWorld in 1983. It's ironically cheaper than I thought although from another price catalog that's probably barebones.

Edited again.. not sure about the price (I see they reposted it a few times with different prices which is weird) but they WERE selling the 6 manuals (which should have disks depending on the manual) for $70 and would throw in the system for an additional $100. Later they posted the system for $130 and manuals for an extra $60. You can probably talk them down for the whole deal. Shipping would kill most sales so you can think of it as a $60 savings for being local. But only if you think you'd use it. It's a unique beast and was more for shops and business use that I'm familiar with.

A *REALLY* cool thing was also the model II came with a part number that was a desk that it and the external drive was installed in. I'd love to find one of the desks nearby some day although yes it'd take up a bunch of room but it's just like having the Altair 8080bt desk. It completes the package.
 
Last edited:
barythrin said:
Out of curiosity why'd you pass on it? It's more like the model II and z80 based, it just doesn't do the 68000 stuff. As leeb said and I agree after finding a few different models.. they're interesting beasts but damn I don't like moving them :) I wouldn't consider it a stripped down 16 ;-) a 16 and 6000 are the top models in features and price. Here's a review of the model 12 (replacement/upgrade for the II) from InfoWorld in 1983. It's ironically cheaper than I thought although from another price catalog that's probably barebones.

Edited again.. not sure about the price (I see they reposted it a few times with different prices which is weird) but they WERE selling the 6 manuals (which should have disks depending on the manual) for $70 and would throw in the system for an additional $100. Later they posted the system for $130 and manuals for an extra $60. You can probably talk them down for the whole deal. Shipping would kill most sales so you can think of it as a $60 savings for being local. But only if you think you'd use it. It's a unique beast and was more for shops and business use that I'm familiar with.

A *REALLY* cool thing was also the model II came with a part number that was a desk that it and the external drive was installed in. I'd love to find one of the desks nearby some day although yes it'd take up a bunch of room but it's just like having the Altair 8080bt desk. It completes the package.
Click to expand...

Not only did it have a 'desk' which was sold though RS, but an attaching side console that could hold up to three 8 inch drives. They weren't cheap either, IIRC they went for around $900 or so.
 
I can assure that even though the desk is massive, it's totally worth having a place to put that damn external disk enclosure.
 
I am beginning to think maybe I shouldn't pass. Just space is a consideration mainly. And can't really justify it right now.
 
Last edited:
It's great at taking space. Anyway, to help calm your mind too.. when you're getting ready to gauge interest or sell it, it'd be you that ends up with the 60lb computer that costs more to ship than it's worth :)
 
Nobody mentioned that it will also run CP/M using the Z80. My copy apparently also let you emulate Level II basic however I couldn't get it to run and even if I did I couldn't be able load software due to a lack of a 5.25" drive or cassette port.
 
Decided to pass after all. I read about keyboard problems like the Compaq's have the capacitive type and it is untested. He does have 2 not sure if I mentioned it or not. One yellowed and one still pretty white. The yellowed one did come up and ask for "Diskette" And the actual price is $100.00 for the computer with owners manual. No disks at all.
 
I wish I could get one...
THINK I might still have a copy of the WordStar I used on it... P&T CP/M used both sides and had LOTS of disc room (comparatively, of course)!

Aint got no money, or anyplace to keep it.... :(
 
Chromedome45 said:
Decided to pass after all. I read about keyboard problems like the Compaq's have the capacitive type and it is untested. He does have 2 not sure if I mentioned it or not. One yellowed and one still pretty white. The yellowed one did come up and ask for "Diskette" And the actual price is $100.00 for the computer with owners manual. No disks at all.
Click to expand...

The model 12 is otherwise less interesting tha the 16b because there is no card cage (that was another expansion option). You get a mainboard that is the equivalent of the Model II CPU, FDC and Memory board. The Video card occupies the slot that should be used for the card cage backplane.

And indeed, the capacitive keyboard that came with my Model 12 is not working. It is however compatible with the Model II keyboard (and a custom adapter).

Fred Jan
 
I have a question for Model 12 owners. From the floppy controller board is the cable connections a card edge type or an IDC connector? Kind of like a 3.5" drive but with 50 pins vs 34 pins on the 3.5". And the back of the 8" drive same question what type of data connector?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top