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Trying to decide on a final vintage computer purchase for the year.

falter

falter

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
6,580
Location
Vancouver, BC
Hey guys,

I've been on a bit of a buying spree recently after freeing up some cash from other things. I'm winding down now though as I'm running out of space and am trying to decide what I should go for as the last unit.

Below I've posted a list of what I have so far. I've perused Ebay and have found a few interesting things:

The Newton Apple I replica board/kit
An original Mark-8 in unassembled kit form
A couple of SWTPC 6800 machines
Heathkit H8
Apple Lisa 2

I'm kind of tempted by the Mark-8... that's a pretty rare thing. However, I think I'd not want to assemble it -- how many unfinished Mark-8 kits are there out there? And even if I did, I've heard they're kind of tricky. I have a TVT 2 terminal now that I was thinking would be kind of cool to interface with another SWTPC product. But I don't really know how much 6800s are worth. There was that unique pair that just went for $1400 together along with piles of ICs and manuals. Could I infer that a single unit might be worth less than half that?

The Lisa 2 has always tempted me, but I've seen them go for much cheaper than what the most recent ones have gone for. And one of them that is up there now is missing the keyboard, which I assume is pretty hard to find.

I've never had any Heathkit stuff, and the H8 looks neat, but I don't know a lot about it.

Lastly there's the Newtown replica. I'd really like to have one, however there is a part of me that still isn't sold on replicas generally.

If anyone has any suggestions on 'affordable' but fairly unique systems, preferably ones that I could use my terminal to play around with, I'm all ears. :)


Apple II (rev 4 with DIY board))
Apple II+
Apple IIc
Apple IIc+
Apple IIe (regular)
Apple III
Bell & Howell Apple II+
Atari 520ST
Atari 1040ST
Atari 130XE
ASCI System U
Coleco Adam
Commodore Pet 2001-8
Commodore Pet 2008-16
Commodore Pet 4016
Commodore SuperPET
Commodore Vic-20
Commodore 64 x3
Commodore 64 Silver Label x1
Commodore SX-64
Commodore Amiga 500 x2
Commodore Amiga 600HD
Commodore Amiga 1000
Commodore Amiga 2000
Commodore 116
Commodore PC10-III
Commodore PC10-II
Commodore 486 Tower (no model number I can find)
Compaq Portable
IBM PCjr
IBM PC 5150
IBM PC AT 5170
IBM PS/2 80
IBM Thinkpad 380ED
IBM Thinkpad 701C
IBM Thinkpad 730T
Intel MDS-225
Kaypro 16
Linden Series One Apple II compatible
Macintosh Plus
Macintosh SE
Macintosh Classic
Macintosh Color Classic
Macintosh Emac
Macintosh iMac 233
Macintosh iMac
Macintosh II
Macintosh LC II
Macintosh LC III
Macintosh LC 475
Macintosh TV
Macintosh PowerMac
Macintosh PowerMac
NEC APC
Orange+3 Apple II compatible
Powerbook 100
Powerbook 12" 867
Tandy 1000EX
Toshiba T1000
Toshiba T1200
Toshiba T3200SX
TV Typewriter II CT-1024 Terminal
 
I'd like it to be something not common, but something that requires a terminal of some kind (like my TVT2 or a Lear Siegler). I think I'm leaning towards the SWTPC or the Heathkit.. I think both ran BASIC? I've done some reading on the Mark-8, but I'm still not clear on exactly what it was capable of doing.

Here's a question -- if you could buy an original kit computer still in kit form like that, would you build it? Or is history better served by keeping an example as it would have been delivered to the customer?
 
with heathkit and swtpc you are entering into a diff class of system, support-wise, unlike anything you have in your list.
 
You have quite a few computers on your list, but I don't see any S-100 bus systems.

Got to have an S-100, but I agree with billdeg. You may be stepping out of your "comfort zone" with one of those machines. However, there are plenty of books and articles you can read that teach you what you need to know to be proficient in operating one of them.

Watch out for the "rare" ones on eBay. Do your homework and make sure software is available for them, lest you end up with an interesting boat anchor.
 
falter said:
An original Mark-8 in unassembled kit form
Click to expand...

Assuming you mean eBay #221288146944 -- it's not clear that it is an * original * Mark-8. In fact I highly doubt that. The lack of details and the wording in the ad makes it sound like a reproduction.
 
Some simple and cheap observations, you're missing an Osborne which is a neat looking and fairly historic system (as well is the Kaypro II), and (lol I was going to say Compaq Portable but I see you do have that) so perhaps an IBM 5155 would be a good find to see IBMs reaction to Compaq's success.

It also comes down to what you like to do and what experience you're looking for. You're looking at some pretty pricey systems so far. Do you have any S-100 gear?
 
billdeg said:
I don't see a TRS 80 Model 1 or III in your list, that might be a good next thing.
Click to expand...

Oops.. I forgot I do have a Model I tucked away. Never got the monitor, etc for it though. I've debated a III and/or IV but had waited because I had a feeling prices would fall on them -- and they have. Shipping unfortunately has gone way up. I kind of have a monthly 'play money' budget that I was going to allocate to systems like that.. and cheapies like the Sinclair 1000, Aquarius, etc.
 
EvanK said:
Assuming you mean eBay #221288146944 -- it's not clear that it is an * original * Mark-8. In fact I highly doubt that. The lack of details and the wording in the ad makes it sound like a reproduction.
Click to expand...

Yes I kind of wondered about that. I wasn't aware of any reproductions out there for those so I wasn't sure. I figured there had to be a reason why nobody was going for it... but I thought possibly it might be due to the fact it was a kit and one might not be inclined to build it, hence not a working computer.
 
EvanK said:
Assuming you mean eBay #221288146944 -- it's not clear that it is an * original * Mark-8. In fact I highly doubt that. The lack of details and the wording in the ad makes it sound like a reproduction.
Click to expand...

I looked around some more -- thinking it must be one of the replicas made by Steve Galaby?
 
barythrin said:
Some simple and cheap observations, you're missing an Osborne which is a neat looking and fairly historic system (as well is the Kaypro II), and (lol I was going to say Compaq Portable but I see you do have that) so perhaps an IBM 5155 would be a good find to see IBMs reaction to Compaq's success.

It also comes down to what you like to do and what experience you're looking for. You're looking at some pretty pricey systems so far. Do you have any S-100 gear?
Click to expand...

I have been wanting S100 gear for a while now. But stuff like the Altair/Imsai was always out of reach for me before. I'd really like a Sol-20, but they come up infrequently and I seem to miss them. I forget what bus the OS Challengers are.. but I like those too.. that look, with the wood sided case. Missed a few of those recently. I don't really know S100 stuff well enough to be able to pick out something worthwhile that not too many people have but is still useable.
 
falter said:
I have been wanting S100 gear for a while now. But stuff like the Altair/Imsai was always out of reach for me before. I'd really like a Sol-20, but they come up infrequently and I seem to miss them. I forget what bus the OS Challengers are.. but I like those too.. that look, with the wood sided case. Missed a few of those recently. I don't really know S100 stuff well enough to be able to pick out something worthwhile that not too many people have but is still useable.
Click to expand...

I've got a couple of OS Challengers. They are great, but I don't think they are S100.

Trouble with the S100 stuff is that the units are usually so HEAVY. They are hard to ship and sometimes you need a terminal with them (e.g. Northstar Horizon)

Tez
 
tezza said:
I've got a couple of OS Challengers. They are great, but I don't think they are S100.

Trouble with the S100 stuff is that the units are usually so HEAVY. They are hard to ship and sometimes you need a terminal with them (e.g. Northstar Horizon)

Tez
Click to expand...

OSI Challenengers are 6502 machines. Single board systems with add on boards. not s-100. There were probably some s-100 add-on that you could buy after-market for a OSI, but back then people made all kinds of hybrid stuff.

The best way to start with S-100 is to get the very cheap and smaller early 80's S-100's. For example the quite compact XOR model S-100-4 or California Computer Systems 2200. Use a laptop as a terminal (using teraterm software). I see S-100 stuff on Ebay but not always in the vintage computer section, and not always identified as s-100. Read the back of 1982 Byte magazine, the ads for all of the s-100 vendors. Believe it or not, there were more s-100 vendors than anything else, based on the number of ads, at the dawn of the IBM PC era.

http://vintagecomputer.net/xor/
http://vintagecomputer.net/California_Computer_Systems/
http://vintagecomputer.net/cromemco/system_one/ - Cromemco is also easy to get running with three cards.

The benefit of starting with a newer S-100 system is that they'll much more likely work, then you can get an IMSAI later and stick the known-working cards from the newer S-100 system into the IMSAI. Over time you can replace with original stock IMSAI cards (or whatever from the 76-79 period. In short the best way to get started with S-100 is to start with a "new" s-100 system first, get that running and then when you buy an older system you can transfer known-working cards into it. There are exceptions however, some of the newer s-100 cards need jumper changes to work in a front panel machine. Didn't say it would be easy, but it's easier at least.

ONE MORE COMMENT: I strongly suggest you take a few hours and read Byte magazine ads from the earlier issues. Fun and the ads are awesome for learning what systems were available, their historic context, and what the original target market was.

Bill
 
Last edited:
billdeg said:
OSI Challenengers are 6502 machines. Single board systems with add on boards. not s-100. There were probably some s-100 add-on that you could buy after-market for a OSI, but back then people made all kinds of hybrid stuff.

The best way to start with S-100 is to get the very cheap and smaller early 80's S-100's. For example the quite compact XOR model S-100-4 or California Computer Systems 2200. Use a laptop as a terminal (using teraterm software). I see S-100 stuff on Ebay but not always in the vintage computer section, and not always identified as s-100. Read the back of 1982 Byte magazine, the ads for all of the s-100 vendors. Believe it or not, there were more s-100 vendors than anything else, based on the number of ads, at the dawn of the IBM PC era.

http://vintagecomputer.net/xor/
http://vintagecomputer.net/California_Computer_Systems/
http://vintagecomputer.net/cromemco/system_one/ - Cromemco is also easy to get running with three cards.

The benefit of starting with a newer S-100 system is that they'll much more likely work, then you can get an IMSAI later and stick the known-working cards from the newer S-100 system into the IMSAI. Over time you can replace with original stock IMSAI cards (or whatever from the 76-79 period. In short the best way to get started with S-100 is to start with a "new" s-100 system first, get that running and then when you buy an older system you can transfer known-working cards into it. There are exceptions however, some of the newer s-100 cards need jumper changes to work in a front panel machine. Didn't say it would be easy, but it's easier at least.

ONE MORE COMMENT: I strongly suggest you take a few hours and read Byte magazine ads from the earlier issues. Fun and the ads are awesome for learning what systems were available, their historic context, and what the original target market was.

Bill
Click to expand...

Hmm... I wonder what sort of bus this Intel MDS-225 I'm getting uses. I've been trying to get as much info as I can but it's kind of helter skelter as different people use different names to describe the same machine. I believe it's proper name is 'Intel Intellec Series III MDS-225'... does anyone know what sort of bus that has?
 
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