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Hello from NYC

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FunctionalLimits

Experienced Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Messages
174
Location
NY, NY, USA
Well, like a typical New Yorker, I just barged right into the forum and started posting on other threads before I introduced myself. Actually, I just didn't see the intro area. I'm not originally from New York, so I'm usually fairly polite. At least by local standards.

For the new year, I decided I should do something fun. Learning more about vintage computers and beginning a collection is what I came up with.

I'm a former programmer who became tired of learning new languages. I stopped after C++. I've just taken off a couple of years to get an M.S., which I completed a few weeks ago. Now I guess I'll have to go back to work. :( No wonder I needed a new hobby to cheer me up.

I'm not really a "hardware" person in that I'm not an engineer, but I do have fond memories of disassembling, reassembling, upgrading, repairing, and generally tinkering with an awful lot of towers and boxes over the years. I have a weakness for things in big putty-colored metal cases.

This seems like a nice community with a lot of very knowledgeable people, and I'm looking forward to getting to know you.
 
Well there's a lot of gawkers on the net who never say a peep and don't get involved (except Facebook of course). So, a little New York style forwardness is actually refreshing. :)

Welcome!
 
Yup, formal welcome! :) Glad you found us and are enjoying the hobby. On the bright side C++ is still pretty common and usable on most systems vintage or not.
 
Hello new guy! I'm Evan from the MARCH group -- saw that you already joined our forum, too. Some of the same people are here, but our list is where you'll find all of the locals who share you interest.
 
Ah .... indeed our hobby is almost all men, however the VCF events (no connection to this web site, although this site is a sponsor) always get plenty of families/kids.

Most people in this hobby focus on the mid-1960s through mid-1980s. So there's not a lot of putty-colored towers. Groups like MARCH and the VCF events are reasonably strict about this. Not to scare you off :) just wanted to explain our perspective of the hobby.
 
Yes, mid-1960s is definitely before my time, so I don't have any firsthand experience with technology from that era! But my affection for/interest in computing isn't strictly nostalgia-based. I'm especially interested in learning about the old mainframes and minicomputers, and it sounds as if I've landed in the right place for that. I'll be the tutee rather than the tutor, though, so I hope that's OK.
 
Don't worry, I think the 60s were before Evan's time too ;-) We all start somewhere and I think most of us are in the same boat. We appreciate the unique characteristics of vintage computers and operating systems. Some folks get into the hobby to reminisce the memories of working in that data center programming the front panel loader for a PDP, the first computer coming into the household or school and getting to play or program. A neat statistic but growing number of members we see also are also younger than most of this equipment and experiencing it for the first time. No wrong answer or group though, just a love for the hobby and seeing all the neat systems and features.

Just for interest sake, where were your computing beginnings? Any system or manufacturer you lean towards in your potential collection?
 
Yes, I've noticed there are even a lot of folks in their teens and 20s who really like the older computers. My own computing history starts in the mid-1980s, so I'm not fully vintage yet, but some of the "older" computers the kids are interested in now are the same ones I wanted when they were new. :( As for what I'd like to acquire as a collector... Well, I'm still at the beginning of my research, so my list needs a good deal of refinement. I guess my idea of "collecting" doesn't necessarily imply acquiring the hardware; in some cases, I really just want to know more about how the systems operated and evolved. I'm interested in the old minis, but I don't think I'm ever going to have a bunch of them out in my garage. I'm just glad they are being preserved. As for personal acquisitions, I'm not focused on a particular manufacturer or architecture. Ideally, I think it would be nice to assemble a collection of micro-/personal computers (i.e., non-gigantic machines) that represent various innovations in the form and its underlying technology. There are some rare older computers that I covet, as we all do; those are the usual suspects, so I won't bother listing them. Some of the easier-to-find stuff would include the iconic IBMs, an Amiga 1000, some of the TRS-80s (need more research), maybe a couple of early laptops, and of course an early Apple or two if I come across any that are reasonably priced. I also really want a Commodore PET (partly because of its looks, I admit). Other quirky odds and ends of interest include an early word processor, an HP-85, various tablets (Grid, EO 440), and some not-yet-"vintage" 1980s-90s hardware (an SGI MIPS workstation, some of the RISC machines). For now, just to get started, I'll probably pick up an Osborne 1 I've been eyeing. That should be fun to play with...if I can actually see the screen.

How about you? Are you a specialist or a generalist? And where do you keep your collection?? I haven't bought anything yet, and I'm already worried about that!
 
Well welcome to the community...

Each of us have some reason for getting into vintage computers. Some were there when it happened, some simply remember the day when they were a kid and received their first computer. Others it's the nostalgia of a simpler time when a single person could understand everything about the computer they were working on. Funny enough for me vintage computers is my midlife crisis. Had the sports car... So had to get into something else...

Since you are in NYC, it's not a far trip to visit MARCH at InfoAge. I recommend doing it. Maybe even before VCF east so that you can spend more time enjoying the VCF activities.

As for where do we keep out collections... Well that varies depending on people's situations. I can tell you it's a lot easier to find a shelf for an Altair than a spot to park a vintage car and a heck of a lot cheaper to buy, restore and maintain.

For me, I keep some of my collection in my office and mindlessly play when I'm on a conference call that I have to pay attention to and don't want myself distracted doing emails and other things that can suck you in.

I also admit that I am running a raspberry pi with my rev-0 Apple II. This way I can do some real work done using SSH but typing and viewing on a vintage machine.

Granted some machines I keep in my basement at my work bench or on shelving units next to my bench. You can t have everything on display, plus I'm picky. I will be teaching the cosmetic restoration class at VCF east, so I'm the kind of person who until a machine looks perfect it will be hidden in the dark. LOL.

Anyway welcome,
Cheers,
Corey
 
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Hi Corey.

You're right, I should try to get out to the museum before VCF. I just checked and it's open on weekends, so I'll have to plan a day hanging out with the UNIVAC in NJ soon.

Funny you should mention cars. I was just trying to explain to a friend today why people collect vintage computers, and I compared it to collecting classic cars. They're very similar, except, as you point out, one eats up less space and money. Maintenance shouldn't be quite as challenging either. At least that's what I hope. Btw, I'm pretty sure this must be one of the least dangerous and embarrassing midlife crises a person could have.

I was also looking at Raspberry Pi's and Arduinos today, so either you have telepathic powers or this group is just highly predictable. Either way, thanks for the welcome and for making me feel at home.
 
FunctionalLimits said:
I should try to get out to the museum before VCF. I just checked and it's open on weekends, so I'll have to plan a day hanging out with the UNIVAC in NJ soon.
Click to expand...

Just a heads up. Yes we are open on weekends, but typically Sundays is when the MARCH has tours. If you did want to come on a Saturday, just give Evan or myself a shout out and we will see if we can find someone to meet you there. I typically docent on Wednesdays if during the week also works out for you.

And as for the car comparison. It's very similar in that we go though are the same issues and questions about originally, restoration and recreation that they do. Our hobby is new enough as a larger group hobby to still be sorting those things out.

Cheers,
Corey
 
Caution is good and I think you have the right idea already. There's a fine line between collecting, presenting/showing, using, and hoarding ;-) The best place for the computer is climate and humidity controlled so in the house. Basements aren't terrible although I've heard some humidity or flooding stories. Garages I'll admit to having to use and I haven't had much bad stuff happen other than normal wear and tear but my garage also has insulation and is attached to the house. My nicer stuff though has been able to stay in the house although it's becoming a potentially futile battle lately with a wife and kids needing more space. OT: A major personal complaint in Texas is we don't have basements. I'd LOVE a basement again.

Osbornes have that great vintage look also but you'll have to get CP/M and other stuff made for it (as with most pre-IBM clone machines of course). That's the only nicety about collecting IBM compatibles if you do get a selection. Software is all compatible between them :) I rarely ever see Commodore PETs for cheap but yeah love them even though a lot of it is just the look. That was sorta why I was curious if you grew up with any specific system or were looking to relive anything specific. It can be hard to limit yourself if you're collecting for aesthetics reasons, a neat book that can prove that is the Collectible Microcomputers. Lots of awesome systems and specs listed. Actually it can come in quite handy when chatting about certain vintage computers. Last time I was chatting with Bo who is a Commodore specific collector he enjoyed the pictures of the non-Commodore computers that I was talking about in my collection and some of the history they had.

A museum if local is also a great way to get your fix too though. Especially for the larger stuff that's pretty rare in general or something that wouldn't work out in a home very well. It's funny though, your collecting sounds a lot like how I started; mostly stuff I saw or heard of (or never heard of) but couldn't have afforded anyway. That's really what got me started collecting. Systems that were finally chump change that now I could finally play with and see how they worked. Emulators were fun too but the real hardware is fun when it's found cheap. It's getting more difficult to find the cheap systems ($20) these days though :-/ but once and a while they'll crop up.

Corey: How is your Pi/Apple setup? Happen to have a blog about it or any pics?
 
Thanks for the pointer to the Nadeau book. In fact, the first thing I did when I started toying with this idea of getting into vintage computing was to order it. Hasn't arrived yet, but in the meantime the Internet has been a good resource. I'm familiar with the history of the technology, but going forward it will be interesting to fill in the details and actually see some of the real oldies.

I am surprised by some of the prices I'm seeing for stuff that really isn't particularly rare. On the other hand, some of the more recent systems that used to cost many thousands of dollars can be had for a pittance, so there's a chance for some wish-fulfillment there.

As for where any potential future acquisitions will live, not to worry, I would definitely not consign them to the garage. I'm already worried enough about things like corrosion, brittle plastic, and the longevity of some of the components of the older systems. As these devices age and parts fail, it's going to be increasingly difficult (or impossible) to maintain 100% authenticity. I'm kind of fussy about taking care of my machines (except my car, for some reason), so once I actually start acquiring stuff, I'm going to have to mine this forum for good tips on maintenance and repair. What am I getting myself into?? :shock:
 
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Corey986 said:
I also admit that I am running a raspberry pi with my rev-0 Apple II. This way I can do some real work done using SSH but typing and viewing on a vintage machine.
Click to expand...

I think I got it now.. You're consoling into the Raspberry via serial on the Apple and sshing from the pi to other stuff? Still would be a neat write up if you have time. I didn't realize the humor until I tried searching the forums right quick for Apple Pi.

Regarding prices. Some stuff does legitimately cost a disappointing amount. Other stuff is just a handful of sellers dreaming. On the bright side on ebay you can use the "Sold" or "Completed" search filter on the left to see if it's just a pipe dream that gets reposted and never sold and what someone at that time did really pay for an item that sold. It's all gone up but over the years but craigslist, ham radio fests, and quite likely the VCF events themselves I'd imagine could be a good venue to pick up equipment for under ebay prices.
 
Barythrin: That's what I figured Corey986 is doing, too. (I didn't think of "Apple Pi," though, which is very funny.) There's an explanation and some code on github. I can't post URLs without being intercepted by the moderator, but you can find it there under dschmenk/apple2pi. This is an awesome way to use the Pi. Would love to hear more from Corey986 about it.

Believe me, I know that a good percentage of the asking prices on eBay are insane. There are certain vendors (everybody here knows who they are) that I just filter out. This lunacy isn't limited to the Vintage Computing category, either. What would be interesting would be to scrape the prices for the vintage gear actually sold on eBay and throw them into a database. There are probably existing tools out there for scraping the data. Do you know if anybody is already doing that? Otherwise, if I ever get enough time, maybe I'll work on something. I've also looked at some of the websites that query all of craigslist, but they don't really have the functionality you would need to run multiple queries on a regular basis, so I guess that's an area for further research as well. Of course, most of those listings are for local pickup only, but if something incredible ever turned up, it might be worth going to fetch it. Else somebody in here might want it.

Evan: OK, now my eagerness to attend VCF this spring has been further stoked. I have to confess (with some embarrassment) that I have never been to a vintage computing event, so this will be a great opportunity for me to get my feet wet. And I don't even have to schlepp to the West Coast!
 
If you want to see more about what you can do with the raspberry pi and vintage equipped, google is your friend. I am using it right now with the Apple II only has a "gateway" to ssh into work systems and to use lynx as a browser. Sometimes not having all those graphics and images when you are researching something is way easier to use. Plus it's cool to use an Apple II for it. There is software to use it as a virtual disk drive over serial for the Apple, but I have a CFFA3000 card so I don't have to use thar feature.

Cheers,
Corey
 
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