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HDD problem

E

elektrownik

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
22
Location
Warsaw, Poland
Hello, I need help with HDD configuration.
My PC is IBM 5160 clone, WD HDD controler (8-bit, no config jumpers, only one HDD connected). HDD is MK-134FA (44MB) datasheet: http://www.4drives.com/DRIVESPECS/TOSHIBA/4629.txt
There is 1701 error on startup. HDD is working when connected to power). fdisk display "No fixed disks present", g=c800:5 in any configuration display error 80, HDD jumpers are set exactly like in datasheet ("11, 12 DRIVE NO. 1 UNIT NO. 1 is assigned when the jumper
plug is connected.")
when I change jumpers to ("03, 04 RADIAL MODE The drive is always selected when the
jumper plug is connected.") there is error 20 instead error 80. I checked cables between HDD and controler and they are fine.
Any ideas how to solve this issue ?
 
pearce_jj said:
Do you know that the hard disk actually works?
Click to expand...
After turning power HDD is generating loud sound so at last driver motor is working, after 1701 error HDD is turning off to idle, also after turning on power HDD LED which is connected to WD controller blinking once
Stone said:
1701 indicates that the controller is at fault.
Click to expand...
No - this is general error "Fixed disk or adapter general error", it can be HDD, controller, data cable or PSU error
PSU is ok (200W) so it is not low power problem
data cable is also ok
I can enter g=c800:5 which is in controller BIOS so I think that controller is fine also
So maybe HDD is damaged or there is problem with jumper configuration on HDD
 
modem7 said:
1701 is a generic error code produced by most XT-class HDD controllers to indicate a problem with the HDD system. So the cause could be controller/HDD/cables/jumpering/power related.
Click to expand...
This is what I had referred to:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/35436

And when you say '1701 is a generic error code produced by most XT-class HDD controllers', where did you get that bit of information? I thought that the 1701 (as well as many others) is a result of the system BIOS encountering an error and does not originate from a controller (or any other) adapter.
 
Stone said:
This is what I had referred to:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/35436

And when you say '1701 is a generic error code produced by most XT-class HDD controllers', where did you get that bit of information? I thought that the 1701 (as well as many others) is a result of the system BIOS encountering an error and does not originate from a controller (or any other) adapter.
Click to expand...
In the "17xx Fixed Disk Errors" section of that document, is the sentence, "The following is a listing of Personal Computer AT Error Codes ...", i.e. specifically referring to AT-class computers.

In XT-class computers, the motherboard BIOS has no hard drive support. Support is provided by the BIOS expansion ROM on the XT-class hard drive controller.
For example, if you look at the source code for the IBM 5160 motherboard BIOS, you will not find the error code of 1701.
For example, if you look at the source code for the BIOS expansion ROM of the Xebec controller supplied in the IBM 5160, you do find 1701. Following is a partial screen shot.

xebec_1701.jpg


In the move to the AT, IBM provided hard drive support in the motherboard BIOS.
 
elektrownik said:
Hello, I need help with HDD configuration.
Click to expand...
Welcome to these forums.

elektrownik said:
My PC is IBM 5160 clone,
Click to expand...
Is this computer something that you have just acquired (in a faulty state), or have you had it for a while and it has only recently failed, or some other scenario?

elektrownik said:
WD HDD controler (8-bit, no config jumpers, only one HDD connected).
Click to expand...
Knowing exactly which controller is in use often helps us (e.g. making sure that the cables are plugged into the correct connectors). Western Digital controllers normally have a part number on them. Can you see any part number? If not, please provide a photo of the controller so that we can try to visually identify the controller.

elektrownik said:
HDD is working when connected to power)
Click to expand...
So, by that, I assume that you mean that you can hear the HDD making a sound. Is that the case? If so, all we can deduce from that is that +12V (or possibly less) is getting to the HDD and that the HDD's spindle is turning (and maybe not fully up-to-speed).

elektrownik said:
HDD jumpers are set exactly like in datasheet ("11, 12 DRIVE NO. 1 UNIT NO. 1 is assigned when the jumper plug is connected.")
Click to expand...
That corresponds to the first 'drive select' position. So that requires the use a 'straight-through' control cable, not a 'twisted' cable (one that has crossed over wires).

If you have a twisted cable (the 'HARD DRIVES' one shown [here]), then that would require that the drive select jumper be set to the second position.

elektrownik said:
when I change jumpers to ("03, 04 RADIAL MODE The drive is always selected when the jumper plug is connected.")
Click to expand...
Radial mode is usually for systems where each hard drive has a dedicated control cable. In PC systems of the time, that was not the case - two hard drives shared the same control cable, and so radial mode on the drive was not selected.
In your single drive scenario, you could use radial mode on the drive, but the drive's access light will always be on and therefore not acting as a 'read/write activity' light (as most people would want it to).
 
My answers bolded in quote:
modem7 said:
Welcome to these forums.


Is this computer something that you have just acquired (in a faulty state), or have you had it for a while and it has only recently failed, or some other scenario?

HDD is from Olivetti M24 (but it was incomplete, only MB, GPU, HDD without controller). IBM PC clone (SATO Super System) on which I'm working was in very good condition but there was no HDD.

Knowing exactly which controller is in use often helps us (e.g. making sure that the cables are plugged into the correct connectors). Western Digital controllers normally have a part number on them. Can you see any part number? If not, please provide a photo of the controller so that we can try to visually identify the controller.

WDXT-GEN2 But there are no config jumpers, only HDD connectors and led connector

So, by that, I assume that you mean that you can hear the HDD making a sound. Is that the case? If so, all we can deduce from that is that +12V (or possibly less) is getting to the HDD and that the HDD's spindle is turning (and maybe not fully up-to-speed).

It look like there is no data connection - HDD is starting at power on but after while it going to idle state.

That corresponds to the first 'drive select' position. So that requires the use a 'straight-through' control cable, not a 'twisted' cable (one that has crossed over wires).

If you have a twisted cable (the 'HARD DRIVES' one shown [here]), then that would require that the drive select jumper be set to the second position.

Cable is straight.

Radial mode is usually for systems where each hard drive has a dedicated control cable. In PC systems of the time, that was not the case - two hard drives shared the same control cable, and so radial mode on the drive was not selected.
In your single drive scenario, you could use radial mode on the drive, but the drive's access light will always be on and therefore not acting as a 'read/write activity' light (as most people would want it to).
Click to expand...
 
I have a passion for the 8 bit computers and the old hard drives and controllers they have in them (if they have a hard drive). I have bought too many old ST412/506 drives from places like eBay and the marketplace here. I have repaired many of them (not all, by any means), but I worked extensively with them all, and the point is, every single 1701 error I encountered, save one, has been a problem with the drive, not the controller.

If this system is new to you, or it has been sitting unused for a long time, then I would recommend carefully working all of the plugs that connect the drive's circuit board to the drive body off and back on. Rock any socketed chips, including the termination resistor. I have repaired many a old hard drive by doing just that. I have literally had that procedure alone cure a 1701 error.

Handle the drive as gently as possible because even though the document that you referenced claims it is an autopark drive, I have found that to be in error sometimes. If the read/write heads are resting on track zero, and there is enough of a bump, they can scratch the disk surface. If the heads damage track zero, the drive will probably be unusable.
 
elektrownik said:
After turning power HDD is generating loud sound so at last driver motor is working, after 1701 error HDD is turning off to idle,
Click to expand...
elektrownik said:
HDD is starting at power on but after while it going to idle state.
Click to expand...
This sounds like the HDD is detecting a problem and shuting down.

Does the HDD do that when it is disconnected from the controller?

Are you able to measure the +12V
 
As before replys bolded in quotes:
modem7 said:
The ROM part of the controller appears to be okay (it will be displaying the "error 80").
But other parts of the controller could be faulty.
Click to expand...
Could be, but I cant check it, there is no (or I dont know about it) any other status or configuration software.
modem7 said:
This sounds like the HDD is detecting a problem and shuting down.

Does the HDD do that when it is disconnected from the controller?
Yes
Are you able to measure the +12V
Power is fine, I measured it.
Click to expand...
Could it be something with IRQ ?
This controller have configuration points (not jumpers). I try to change It IRQ from 5 to 2 but it doesnt help.
 
Last edited:
1701 error could appear even if the HDD is not low-level formatted with that specific XT controller, so the first thing that should be done is to try to low-level format the HDD with that WDC controller.
 
george said:
1701 error could appear even if the HDD is not low-level formatted with that specific XT controller, so the first thing that should be done is to try to low-level format the HDD with that WDC controller.
Click to expand...
Isn't that what he tried to do (without success) with the 'g=c800:5' mentioned in two earlier posts?
 
elektrownik said:
Could be, but I cant check it, there is no (or I dont know about it) any other status or configuration software.
Click to expand...
Yes, I was pointing out that the controller can not be eliminated at this time.

elektrownik said:
Could it be something with IRQ ?
This controller have configuration points (not jumpers). I try to change It IRQ from 5 to 2 but it doesnt help.
Click to expand...
IRQ5 is the IRQ to use for a HDD controller in an XT-class computer. Leave it at 5.

Your HDD is doing something that is not normal for its type and age. When the HDD is disconnected from the controller, and power applied, you should hear its spindle motor turning, and the motor should stay turning. Your description sounds like the motor starts and then later stops, even though power is still supplied.

This is really sounding like a HDD problem. Did you try the procedure that fatwizard suggested in post #11 ?
 
modem7 said:
Yes, I was pointing out that the controller can not be eliminated at this time.


IRQ5 is the IRQ to use for a HDD controller in an XT-class computer. Leave it at 5.

Your HDD is doing something that is not normal for its type and age. When the HDD is disconnected from the controller, and power applied, you should hear its spindle motor turning, and the motor should stay turning. Your description sounds like the motor starts and then later stops, even though power is still supplied.

This is really sounding like a HDD problem. Did you try the procedure that fatwizard suggested in post #11 ?
Click to expand...
Yes, but no luck :(
 
modem7 said:
Yes, I was pointing out that the controller can not be eliminated at this time.


IRQ5 is the IRQ to use for a HDD controller in an XT-class computer. Leave it at 5.

Your HDD is doing something that is not normal for its type and age. When the HDD is disconnected from the controller, and power applied, you should hear its spindle motor turning, and the motor should stay turning. Your description sounds like the motor starts and then later stops, even though power is still supplied.

This is really sounding like a HDD problem. Did you try the procedure that fatwizard suggested in post #11 ?
Click to expand...
HDD is damaged unfortunatly, I'm 99% convinient. As I described it was shouting down after while of loud (motor I assume) sound. I punched it when it shut down and wow it start loud sound again... and after some time it shout down, another punch and another start... so it must be something with engine or other mechanical parts. I finally connected 5,25" FDD to my COre2Duo recent PC and it worked great so i put SSTor on disc and it also doesnt detect HDD in any configuration.
 
elektrownik Do you see any activity on the HDD during system start or 'g=c800:5' ? (head moving, LED blinking e.t.c.)
Starting WD BIOS is trying to:
- SELECT drive 0
- MOVE head to track 0
- READ sector 0/0/1 (C/H/S)
The Activity LED on the drive should blink.

Do you use twist on the Control (wide, 34 pin) MFM cable ? It was common to use 'twisted' MFM cable to coexists
two C: and D: on the same cable w/o drive re-configuration. Both HDD should be configured as "Drive 1".
The Floppy cable use the same technique to coexist A; and B: BUT twistes different wires than MFM
(ST-412) cable. Floppy and MFM cables are not compatible.
 
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