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Seeking info on IBM 5364

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bettablue

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A friend of mine, and member of the Forums, just bought an IBM 5364 which he calls a "Baby/36" From what I gather from his description, it is supposedly quite similar to an IBM 5161 Expansion Unit, and is cabled just like a 5161. The IBM 5364 also uses the what appears to be the same data cable as the IBM 5161 expansion Unit as well, or at least he hopes. Does the 5364 use the same data cable as the 5161? Or is there a different configuration. Are the extender and receiver cards also the same as those used with the 5161?

The only information I have been able to locate that is of any real use is on a single video on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYCxpTXuuh4. There is no real information in the vid, so I'm still left scratching my head.

As you can see in the video, the unit looks very similar an IBM 5170 AT, just as the IBM 5161 is similar to the PC/XT. Also in the video, you can see the 5364 setting atop another "host" computer, which is much larger than the 5364. The video calls this "IPL of IBM System/36 (5364)" (whatever that means. LOL!!!)

The main reason I'm asking about the 5364 is that I plan to purchase an IBM 5170 within the next year, and if this unit can work as an expansion unit with the 5170 AT, then I'll probably want to get one for that purpose; just as I have with the 5150+5161 system I call Alice. Also, if I can use the 5364 as I intend to, roughly what should I expect to pay for one in decent shape? (I'm not too worried about the overall condition of the case, but the unit should be in good working order.)

As always, thanks much for your input, and advice.
 
Sounds like apples and oranges. Besides, a 5170 has eight slots and since most are 16-bit there is no real need for a 5170 Expansion Unit. Multiple functions can be incorporated into 16-bit cards as opposed to 8-bit cards.
 
The slots in the 5364 are very different from the AT. The 5364 connects to the AT with a special cable and the AT in turn is connected to Token Ring. Other System/36 systems used a similar method with an AT as intermediary which talks to the network. Later System/36 seem to have gotten their own Token Ring adapter and the special AT was no longer needed.

Documentation http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/ibm/system36/5364/

Pictures http://www.supervinx.com/Retrocomputer/IBM/5364/01/
More Pictures http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16728461

If you just want the 3 drive bays added without the use of the mainframe, you would need to create your own board to hold slots and the second controller.
 
Stone said:
Sounds like apples and oranges. Besides, a 5170 has eight slots and since most are 16-bit there is no real need for a 5170 Expansion Unit. Multiple functions can be incorporated into 16-bit cards as opposed to 8-bit cards.
Click to expand...

I have an 8-bit ISA card that has Fdd connectors, parallel along with serial ports, as well as RTC. Is that not a multi-function card?
 
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Caluser2000 said:
I have an 8-bit ISA card that has Fdd connectors, parallel along with serial ports, as well as RTC. Is that not a multi-function card?
Click to expand...
I have three 8-bit IBM cards. One is FDD, one is serial/parallel and one is parallel only. That's how IBM did it back then.
 
There''s another guy here on the forums (quite close to me actually) who has one of these machines as well. I believe he even has a backup of the hard disk.
 
Stone said:
I have three 8-bit IBM cards. One is FDD, one is serial/parallel and one is parallel only. That's how IBM did it back then.
Click to expand...
Being a bit more specific does help. Thats not to say you can't free up slots using another manufactures 8-bit ISA card though.
 
Hey, you can put a Porsche engine in an old VW Beetle. I know it's fun to drive 'cause an old friend of mine did it to his. But, is it still a VW? :)
 
That's being silly. Now lets review what you typed:

Stone;347930/ said:
Multiple functions can be incorporated into 16-bit cards as opposed to 8-bit cards.
Click to expand...

A totally incorrect statement.

Porshe actually designed the "peoples car" btw.
 
Last edited:
Caluser2000 said:
That's being silly. Now lets review what you typed:



A totally incorrect statement.

Porshe actually designed the "peoples car" btw.
Click to expand...

MikeS said:
And Porsche instead of 'Porshe'... ;-)
Click to expand...
Good point, Mike!!! Especially in light of the fact that Porsche was spelled correctly in the post one before his post. I think it takes a very special talent to be able to do something like that. :) :) :) :)
 
As always stone, and others; thanks for the info. I'll pass this on. And, I'll keep it my growing archives.

krebizfan said:
The slots in the 5364 are very different from the AT. The 5364 connects to the AT with a special cable and the AT in turn is connected to Token Ring. Other System/36 systems used a similar method with an AT as intermediary which talks to the network. Later System/36 seem to have gotten their own Token Ring adapter and the special AT was no longer needed.

Documentation http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/ibm/system36/5364/

Pictures http://www.supervinx.com/Retrocomputer/IBM/5364/01/
More Pictures http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16728461

If you just want the 3 drive bays added without the use of the mainframe, you would need to create your own board to hold slots and the second controller.
Click to expand...
 
IBM System/36-PC

IBM System/36-PC

Stone:

I think it was Ben Franklin you said " It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word". I do remember Mark Twain said something very similar.

Thomas:

"IPL" or Interrupt Program Logic is a term that was often referred to old IBM world. Kind of like a re-boot or booting a system today.

The System/36-PC often referred to a Baby/36 was connected to an IBM 51XX machine with a cable very similar to the one used with a 5161 expansion unit. I have not tried to see if the cables are pin compatible but I am going to in the next few days. The IBM PC emulated a 5250 terminal that allowed the Baby/36 to IPL. The System/36 would support additional 5250 terminals coax connected. The System/36 ran SSP OS. The System/3 and the System/34 were the forerunner to the System/36, followed by the System/38 then the AS/400 now relabeled the iSeries. Most of the development on these machines was done using RPG (all of us that remember the coding sheets "F", "C", "O" ETC. There is probably a few retired SE's that can correct what I have wrong here.

Of all the configurations for the IBM 51XX series of computers, I think the 5364 configuration is probably the rarest.

I have attached a few pictures.

The Driver Card
IMG_2375.jpgIMG_2378.jpgIMG_2377.jpg

The 5364

IMG_2373.jpgIMG_2371.jpg
 
Jimmy said:
"IPL" or Interrupt Program Logic is a term that was often referred to old IBM world. Kind of like a re-boot or booting a system today.
Click to expand...

Huh! And for all these years I thought IPL was Initial Program Load - and it was booting the system.
 
Inside of IBM "IPL" was definitely "Initial Program Load." It's one of those great IBM terms like "DASD" (Direct Access Storage Device). See the IBM Jargon Dictionary, 10th edition for further amusement. (http://www.comlay.net/ibmjarg.pdf)

And in the name of all that is good and holy, please don't ever consider tearing up uncommon and unrelated machines for something as mundane as getting yet another PC with an expansion unit. A S/36 has absolutely nothing to do with the PC series, except perhaps that sometimes the cases are similar. For example, you might find some ISA cards in a PC RT that work in a PC AT and you might find some cables that work, but otherwise these are all very different families of systems. Preserve, don't destroy.



Mike
 
haha I came here to be like "oh I know what IPL means" but you guys beat me to it multiple times.
Something I had to learn when going through my AIX / IBM RT stuff - quotes like "Insert disk and IPL" on boot disks etc

But yeah please keep it as it is, trying to find parts for my IBM RT is depressingly hard as it is, and I suspect the same applies to systems like this.
 
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