Does anyone have a working 8-inch disk drive?

[VeryVon]

@Vailen curious, what brand DS/DD 8-inch floppy disk media did you pick up? And maybe a picture of said media

 

[westveld]

I've started a new thread to argue about AI specifically:
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/ai-what-might-people-like-us-use-it-for.1249857/
Cheers

 

[Vailen]

@Vailen curious, what brand DS/DD 8-inch floppy disk media did you pick up? And maybe a picture of said media

The disks have not arrived yet, but I purchased a set of brand new BASF and Xerox, both DS/DD. If there is a different brand you recommend please let me know.

 

[RetroAND]

I'm embarrassed.

@Vailen as stated previously if nobody solves your problem you can fall back on me.

 

[DougM]

Also, DougM's drives seem to be single-sided only, they won't do 1.2MB images. You'd need a double-sided head.

@deanimator since these are only SS drives do you think they are even worth saving? With the need for a complete rebuild I'm thinking they might not be worth the trouble and I should just toss them.

Thanks,

DougM

 

[RetroAND]

@deanimator since these are only SS drives do you think they are even worth saving? With the need for a complete rebuild I'm thinking they might not be worth the trouble and I should just toss them.

Thanks,

DougM

In my opinion they are worth the hassle. If you don't want to spend your time and resources, you could always pass them to someone who would. If you sell or donate them you will give them a second life.

 

[hjohnson]

The AI folk probably tuned for an informative non-condescending tone in responses.
So maybe good AI responses sound like Herb?

It's to the owner's benefit to touch bases with as many 5110 people as they can find, not to mention disk-imaging people with 5110 experiences.

[deanimator posted ] English is my third language, but from a sentence formed like this I'd almost say you're an AI generated post.

Well, I'm not an AI. 20 years of retrotechnology.com work (look it up) suggests otherwise. I have a Web page on describing floppy diskette technology, that's often found in Web search. "Should you desire, I can provide character references." Would an AI say that?

I was going to go further on this proposition - I've never been called an AI before, kinda unexpected attention. But 1) AI is off topic, 2) I'm not the topic, 3) the original thread poster has moved on to their current solution. So I'll move on too, just checked to see responses and such.

regards, human being last I checked
Herb Johnson

 

[deanimator]

@deanimator since these are only SS drives do you think they are even worth saving?

Yes. A single sided 8" drive was actually the first drive I got working after a minor repair, it was a Shugart. However, if I had to choose, I'd pick a drive that has documentation available - and in case of PROMs or LSI chips being involved, also their binary dumps. But not just the electrical schematics, as there's a lot of things that can go wrong. For example, a missing felt piece from the upper arm of a single-sided drive is enough for it not to read one iota, because of improper physical contact with the bottom head.

On the other hand, he could manage to write double-sided disk images with a single-sided drive only, but it would involve some heavy trickery. The first would involve (somehow) splitting the double-sided IMD file to two ones that occupy head 0 only, and the second part would be to cut new openings for the index hole into the plastic cover, avoiding pinching the magnetic media itself. Almost like a "flippy disk", but more involved than just a write protect notch.
This is how I got an MS-DOS bootable on the first side, with the rest of the "goodies" on the second side, with the single sided Shugart. It would also be a must for double-sided disks since these have their index hole opening in a different place than the photocouple/IR LED in single sided drives, so it would think there's no floppy inserted.
It would be alright for tinkering, but not to get an old machine (in an unknown state) booting again. That's why I advocated for a double-sided drive outright.

Well, I'm not an AI. 20 years of retrotechnology.com work (look it up) suggests otherwise.

The citation I'd quoted stroke me as very generic/formal in nature, almost something a chatbot would respond with. In the past, unfortunately, I had partaken in a discussion where the other party was using one of those to prove his point. But that's not my excuse. My apologies, this was my fault.

 

[hjohnson]

Almost like a "flippy disk", but more involved than just a write protect notch.

When you flippy a diskette, you are reversing the rotational direction. So if you try to read both sides of a "flippy" disk in a double-sided drive, the second side will be *backwards*. Making flippy disks is so old-school, you likely forgot that experience.

As for my formal writing; I got my electrical engineering degree in 1976. So age and training affect how I write about computing. Could be, AI chatbots source their content from publications of the same era and skills-set as I. and so, mistaking me for an AI, may be a modern consequence of casual use of generative AI's even by mere mortals. I guess it's gonna be a thing, now; thanks for calling it to my attention, I see your point! - regards Herb"bot" Johnson

 

[deanimator]

So if you try to read both sides of a "flippy" disk in a double-sided drive, the second side will be *backwards*

Good catch. With a full height drive (synchronous motor with a run capacitor) and the disk flipped, he'd also have to change the rotation direction by putting the run capacitor in series with the other winding. In half height drives, where the spindle motor circuit runs off +24V, this might become more of a problem. Yeah, if you were to look, double sided drives in good working order unless you're really adventurous.

 

[cj7hawk]

When you flippy a diskette, you are reversing the rotational direction. So if you try to read both sides of a "flippy" disk in a double-sided drive, the second side will be *backwards*. Making flippy disks is so old-school, you likely forgot that experience.

As for my formal writing; I got my electrical engineering degree in 1976. So age and training affect how I write about computing. Could be, AI chatbots source their content from publications of the same era and skills-set as I. and so, mistaking me for an AI, may be a modern consequence of casual use of generative AI's even by mere mortals. I guess it's gonna be a thing, now; thanks for calling it to my attention, I see your point! - regards Herb"bot" Johnson

You probably don't realise but as for your writings, a lot of AI have probably been trained on you - Rather than some AI in you, a little bit of you is in the AI.

Here's what Chat GPT says about you.

Q: who is herb johnson and what is his contribution to vintage computing?

ChatGPT said:​

Herb Johnson is a notable figure in the vintage computing community, particularly known for his work in preserving and supporting legacy computing hardware and software. He has contributed significantly to the restoration and documentation of early computing systems, with a focus on the computers and technologies of the 1970s and 1980s.

Key Contributions:​

1. Restoration and Sales of Vintage Computer Parts:
   • Herb Johnson is well known for sourcing, restoring, and selling vintage computer components, especially for systems like the S-100 bus, early microcomputers, and various CP/M-based machines.
   • He has operated a business that provides parts and expertise to hobbyists and collectors who are restoring or maintaining vintage computers.
2. Documentation and Technical Support:
   • Johnson has contributed a wealth of documentation, technical notes, and advice through his website, which serves as a valuable resource for those working with vintage systems.
   • His technical insights and shared knowledge have been crucial for many in the community, especially those trying to understand and repair old hardware.
3. Promoting Vintage Computing History:
   • He has been an advocate for preserving the history of computing, often sharing insights about early computer technologies, hardware, and software.
   • Johnson has contributed to the broader understanding of the evolution of personal computing, highlighting the technological and cultural significance of early computer systems.

Overall, Herb Johnson’s contributions have helped to keep the history and technology of early computing alive, providing resources and support to a niche but dedicated community of enthusiasts and historians.

 

[Vailen]

Just thought I would share with everyone...I went to InfoAge's workshop last Saturday and worked with VintageVolts to create disk images for my IBM 5120. Of the 6 disk images we made, 5 of them are working! I attached a video of executing UTIL DIR, D40 to read the files on a disk in drive #2. The diagnostics disk image did not work, and since the disk images were succcessful for the other 5 disks, I am wondering if the disk itself had a problem. I will try to create this disk image again when I next visit the InfoAge workshop. Many, many thanks to VintageVolts for spending a few hours with me to help me make these disks.

Disk drive #1 is not functioning. It begins reading the first file on the disk, but then makes a jamming sound and fails, producing an "Error 001". I believe the stepper motor needs to be repaired. This will be my next task.

Making progress!