• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Apple lle memory

B

bettablue

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
1,647
Location
Eugene, OR
OK, I'm really starting to focus on working on my Apple lle computer. To start off with, I haven't gotten much in the way of infornmation on where to buy memory upgrades and parts for this computer. The computer only has a whopping 64K of memory, so I want to expand that first. I've also heard about Apple llg upgrade boards for these too. What I'm primarily interested in getting for the computer is the memory upgrade so it can be used as a vintage gaming machine.

So, what memory upgrades are available for the Apple lle, and what can I expect if I decide to change the board to make it a llG? Are there any other upgrades you would recommend besides getting a null modem cable and serial adapter card?
 
You want the 64k/80 column card. It plugs into the designated expansion slot on the left. That'll get you up to 128k and allow you to use 80 column text. That's pretty much the standard configuration for this machine, and it's what a lot of later games and software will require.

The IIgs is a completely different computer, and while it's possible to ram a IIgs board into the IIe case (you need a hacksaw and a drill), it's not worth the effort, and it doesn't work nearly as well as just using a real IIgs, since you can't use a ROM 3 IIgs board in a IIe case.

The 64k/80 column board is very simple, and super common. Expect to pay about five bucks. Other important upgrades are a disk controller and two floppy drives, and a Super Serial Card.

While larger RAM cards exist, they're only supported by specific software that was intended to use it. AppleWorks, for example, can use some RAM cards as a virtual disk, as can ProDOS. They won't do you a bit of good for games.

-Ian
 
Thanks for the info.

So, I guess I have somewhat of a head start here. My system came with Apple's Duo Disk and the controller card, so from what you're suggesting, all that's really left is the 80 column and Super Serial cards. It's interesting that the lle can use the llgs ROM. I think that's where I got the idea that the g's board would work.

In another forum there was mention of something I would also like to get. Have you heard about the CFFA card for the Apple II? It allows you to store disk images on a CF card or a USB thumb drive and run them on your Apple II.

http://dreher.net/?s=projects/CFforAppleII&c=projects/CFforAppleII/orderForm.php

The price is a little steep, but Wow! Pretty much the same thing Hargle is doing with his XTIde. Too bad the CF card or the thumb drive can't be connected to the back of the Apple. Now THAT would be extremely useful to me. I wonder if I could get some kind of extension cable and mount a CF slot on one of the expansion plates? Maybe do the same thing with the USB? Hmmm.

I just did a search for the 64k/80 column card on E-Bay. The only ones I found are selling for $19.90 plus about $3.00 for shipping. Given what you told me, I may spend the money and go for it.
 
bettablue said:
It's interesting that the lle can use the llgs ROM.
Click to expand...
It can't. I don't know where you got that idea. The two computers are very, very different. The IIgs is just backwards compatible with IIe software and peripheral cards.

In another forum there was mention of something I would also like to get. Have you heard about the CFFA card for the Apple II? It allows you to store disk images on a CF card or a USB thumb drive and run them on your Apple II.
Click to expand...
I have various hard drives for the II series - pretty mandatory if you're running a IIgs and want to run GSOS. And on the IIe, if you're running ProDOS and want to do more advanced stuff with it, the a hard disk is a great thing to have. But DOS 3.3 doesn't support hard drives. And most games are self booting/custom things that aren't going to run from a hard drive.

What's wrong with the floppies? Everything on the II+/IIe was designed to be run from floppies, it's much easier to simply use those. They're fast and very reliable. Much more so than on the Commodore 64. If you're primarily planning to play games, you're not going to get a lot of use out of a hard disk (or hard disk replacement).

I just did a search for the 64k/80 column card on E-Bay. The only ones I found are selling for $19.90 plus about $3.00 for shipping. Given what you told me, I may spend the money and go for it.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I haven't looked, but that seems a bit steep. Those cards are so common - I'm actually rather surprised that you have a IIe without one already. There were some third party ones too, Applied Engineering made some. I've seen generic ones too... but the most common are the Apple ones. They shipped with all the Platinum IIe's standard.

-Ian
 
I have the IIe platinum with 128k RAM, and a 4MB Applied Engineering RAMworks III Card in mine. My original IIe has the 80 column card it and it works rather well
 
AppleIIfan said:
I have the IIe platinum with 128k RAM, and a 4MB Applied Engineering RAMworks III Card in mine. My original IIe has the 80 column card it and it works rather well
Click to expand...

These are amazing computers! I have seen them doing things they were never designed to do. Question though; What is the maximum disk partition size the Apple lle will accept?
 
ProDos Partitions are limited to 32MB in Size. If the Apple II scsi cards werent so expensive Id have a hard drive in mine.
 
glitch said:
Cheap disk interface, 8255-based IDE board! I haven't had much time to work on it lately, but the hardware is coming along.
Click to expand...
Ah, very cool. You can never have too many disk interfaces. But I must say, I am getting spoiled by Rich Dreher's CFFA3000... you never need to leave the comfort of your .DSK or .PO disk images, no matter what size they are.

Back on topic...
bettablue said:
What is the maximum disk partition size the Apple lle will accept?
Click to expand...
The max partition size is larger than you'll ever need on an Apple IIe. ;-)
 
The reason I ask about partition size is that I have over 100 Megs of Apple ll software, mostly games. As I upgrade the system I/'ll be installing a CF card in the computer to act as an internal drive. CF cards come in range drom 512 Megs and up. The most common I have seen being 1 Gig units. The CF adaper I'll be using will allow me to boot into Apple Dos from one partition and access all of the programs stored across the others. This will negate the need for 160K floppy disks, but even then I can still boot from floppy if I want and still access the CF card. If the max partition size is 32 megs, then it's no different than what my IBM system can access and the CF card setup will be identical.

In my IBM, the CF card allows me to boot from any partition I choose, so in effect I can have a different version of DOS on each one and still have enough storage for the 4500 plus programs I have for the PC and all of those will run on the PC with 640K of RAM.

I'll be the first to acknowledge that I really don't know a hell of a lot about the Apple lle I have. But I'm learning as I go along. The CF card will let me explore some of those things I don't know. I am especiall interested in trying different version of OS on the thing, seeing and how far I can take the computer before it really can't go any further. Then I'll know some of the machines limitations.

I'm definitely going to have some fun pushing this thing.
 
Sounds like the CFFA3000 might be exactly the thing for you, with its ability to load Apple II disk images. This is especially true if you're interested in having a lot of games, as a lot of the Apple II games are self-booting (i.e. they run on the hardware itself, not through ProDOS) and couldn't be installed to hard disk anyway.

Alternately, you could just create floppy disks from the images using ADTpro. That would require having plenty of good floppies around though, and if you don't want piles of floppies, the CFFA3000 sounds like the way to go!
 
One thing you'll have to remember is that while ProDOS can support partitions up to 32 megabytes, DOS 3.3 can't even do that. It supports a maximum volume size of 400k, IIRC. It also does not support subdirectories.

Games generally don't use ProDOS - they use either their own thing, booting the hardware directly, or in some cases running from DOS 3.3. Pretty much any game is going to need to boot from floppy, or something that pretends to be a floppy.

I wouldn't worry about using a CF card on the system, at least not now. The floppy disks are what the II was designed to use. Use those. If you're worrying about a hard disk you limit yourself to only ProDOS. Other OSes can't use it. (DOS 3.3, Pascal, CP/M, etc).

-Ian
 
RetroHacker_ said:
I wouldn't worry about using a CF card on the system, at least not now. The floppy disks are what the II was designed to use. Use those. If you're worrying about a hard disk you limit yourself to only ProDOS. Other OSes can't use it. (DOS 3.3, Pascal, CP/M, etc).
Click to expand...

That is something the CFFA3000 claims to address, though I'd imagine it's just in emulating a floppy drive. The information page claims you can boot CP/M and UCSD Pascal, though.
 
RetroHacker_ said:
I wouldn't worry about using a CF card on the system, at least not now. The floppy disks are what the II was designed to use. Use those. If you're worrying about a hard disk you limit yourself to only ProDOS. Other OSes can't use it. (DOS 3.3, Pascal, CP/M, etc).
glitch said:
That is something the CFFA3000 claims to address, though I'd imagine it's just in emulating a floppy drive. The information page claims you can boot CP/M and UCSD Pascal, though.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The CFFA3000 does emulate a Disk II adapter. You copy *.DSK files to removable media (either USB or CF), plug it into the card, and they appear as if they're inserted into one or two disk drives. So you can use whatever OS happens to be on the disk images. The neat thing about that is you can put your collection of disk images on a memory device, pick which one you want to use, and boot it. It gets you around the 32MB limit of ProDOS, in a way... you can't use them online all at once, but you can put them all in one place and access them as you see fit.
 
david__schmidt said:
The CFFA3000 does emulate a Disk II adapter. You copy *.DSK files to removable media (either USB or CF), plug it into the card, and they appear as if they're inserted into one or two disk drives. So you can use whatever OS happens to be on the disk images. The neat thing about that is you can put your collection of disk images on a memory device, pick which one you want to use, and boot it. It gets you around the 32MB limit of ProDOS, in a way... you can't use them online all at once, but you can put them all in one place and access them as you see fit.
Click to expand...

That is what I got from their site too. It's not like I want to store everything to the CF card at one time, but I do want to have something simple to write to andd load a program from. Additionally, having a CF slot in one of the expansion bay covers will allow me to insert the CF card to boot the system and run as though it were booting from the floppy disk. Too bad I couldn't just connect a CF adapter to the floppy controller on the rear of the computer. Now that would be simple. I would just have to disconeect my Duo Disk before connecting the CF card adapter. Still, it will be a lot easier to write to a CF card with my primary computers internal card reader.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top