Gateway 400 Series BIOS

OK, Here's the situation. My Tweener is a 1997 Gateway 400 series Pll running a 233 Mhz processor, 128 Megs of RAM, dual 40 Gig hard drives, internal DVD reader/Writer, internal 100 Meg Zip disk, 3.5" 1.44 Meg floppy and 5.25" 360K DDSD IBM floppy drive. (I think that's about it.)

The problem I'm running into is that although the computer runs everything I've thrown at it so far, DOS apps included, the system BIOS will only allow the use of 1 floppy drive at a time in the machine. Most of the time, I need the 3.5 1.44 Meg drive, so I leave things alone, but there are times I need to use the 5.25 360K drive; which means shutting the computer off, unplugging power, disconnecting the 3.5" floppy and connecting the 5.25, then during bootup, reconfigure the BIOS to recognize the correct drive. When I'm done with the 5.25" drive, I have to reverse the entire process so I can go back to using the 3.5" drive again.

Question: Do any of you know if Gateway had a BIOS update for the 400 series that would allow the computer to run with both floppy drives installed and at the same time? Or would you recommend using a different computer, possibly a 386, or 486 running Windows 3.1, or Windows 95? I've heard people mention system 7 mother boards, but I'm not familiar to anything prior to the Windows 95 computers I had access to. (Which is one of the primary reasons I had so much trouble getting started with my IBM 5150 and in these forums.) And, because of track width differences, I don't want to go with a combo drive that has a 3.5" 1.44 Meg, and 5.25 1.2Meg floppy drive all in one unit. The track widths are so different that these cause their owm problems when going from machine to machine.

What are your thoughts? Is there another option I haven't thought about for my Tweener?

bettablue said:

What are your thoughts?

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I think you should be able to run both floppies. I don't know what the problem is but there must be a way to resolve it.

My tweener is the G6-300 Pentium II with Intel motherboard which works fine with both drives. I believe that almost every 286, 386, 486, or Pentium desktop or tower should have no problem with two floppy drives installed. Many of them shipped with both 5.25" HD and 3.5" HD so if you can track down a system built between 1990 and 1995 you should just need to swap out the 5.25" HD and install the 5.25" DD. Make sure you have a proper 5 connector floppy cable; my 486 Gateway came with a cable that required the A drive to be 5.25" which isn't too useful after OSes switched to 3.5" boot floppies.

I would also check to see if you can find a cheap secondary floppy controller.

Sorry, I don't know of a BIOS update. Gateway was very bad at keeping up with needed updates. If you can track down the actual base motherboard, you might be able to find an update to that. That is what I had to do to update my Gateway system's BIOS with the Intel update.

Thanks stone. You do seem to be everywhere... I like that.

What I hope to do is find a way to use both floppy drives at the same time.. I've tried to have them both connected, however in that configuration, the computer won't boot. Instead it will throw an error about the floppy drive being incompatible. I just thought this was pretty funny for a computer of that era. Other systems both before and after this computers release seem to allow for both, so why not this one?

Others here seem to recommend a 486 machine. But on the other hand, I have a 286 IBM machine waiting for me too. If I can run Windows 3.0 on it, that will do the trick too, because I know it will let me run both floppy drives at the same time.

Stone said:

I think you should be able to run both floppies. I don't know what the problem is but there must be a way to resolve it.

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You need to take both floppies and the ribbon cable and plug the whole assembly into another machine. If you get the same error the problem is one of the floppies or the cable. Another thought... you're using a floppy ribbon cable with a twist, right? You need to check both drives to be sure that they are both set to DS1 for Drive Select. That's the second position counting from zero like 0, 1, 2, 3. If one of them isn't set to DS1, change it.

I do know how to set up floppy drives. I've done it numerous times. It's just this one machine. Even the BIOS only shows a drive A when both are connected. I have it so that the 3.5" 1.44 Meg is the master on drive "A" and the 5.25 360K is the slave on drive "B". However, because they can't both run at the same time due to the percieved limits of this computer; I'm running them individually as a master drive "A". So, when I nees the other drive, I'll open the computer, make the swap and so forth.

I wish I could be clearer than that. But, at least I did the proper setups and normal troubleshooting. Hell, the Gateway was given to me along with another almost identical P3 system. Neither will accept dual floppy drives. Bummer! That's why I'm considering yet another computer to use as my tweener.

Stone said:

You need to take both floppies and the ribbon cable and plug the whole assembly into another machine. If you get the same error the problem is one of the floppies or the cable. Another thought... you're using a floppy ribbon cable with a twist, right? You need to check both drives to be sure that they are both set to DS1 for Drive Select. That's the second position counting from zero like 0, 1, 2, 3. If one of them isn't set to DS1, change it.

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bettablue said:

I have it so that the 3.5" 1.44 Meg is the master on drive "A" and the 5.25 360K is the slave on drive "B".

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So when both drives were connected, you removed/disabled the terminator on the 5.25" one (at middle of cable).

FWIW, there is *no* master or slave with floppies.

Try the 5.25" drive an A and the 3.5" drive as B.

Did you check the DS jumper on both drives?

I don't think there are any limits on your computers. It will run two floppies when configured correctly.

The terminator was removed, and the two drives were installed, and connected, we tried setting one drive as the master and the other as a slave, set both to cable select, and both set to master. Then I swapped out the cable for one without the twist, and did it all again. The computer's BIOS just will not give me more than one floppy drive at a time, And it doesn't seem to matter which drive is set to the master or slave position, or if their set to cable select, the BIOS won't let me proceed, with both floppy drives connected. and will throw an error.

modem7 said:

So when both drives were connected, you removed/disabled the terminator on the 5.25" one (at middle of cable).

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At this point, models numbers of drives and computer including bios version would probably be helpful. I think there is some miscommunication that is creating a bit of confusion. Pictures might not hurt either.

I think the cause might be any of the following:
A budget BIOS that only supports a single floppy disk though I thought that was rare in 1997.
A floppy cable that either lacks the expected twist or has been damaged.
The 360kB floppy was adjusted to work in a non-IBM PC compatible system.

bettablue said:

The terminator was removed, and the two drives were installed, and connected, we tried setting one drive as the master and the other as a slave, set both to cable select, and both set to master.

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Once again, master and slave are IDE features, not floppy features and that goes for cable select as well. I really can't follow what you're trying to convey.

Did you try the 5.25" drive as drive A? If not, you need to try this.

Sorry stone, but now it is I who don't know what you're asking. ;-) I thought I had answerd that several querries ago... Yes, both were tried as drive "A", and both were tries as drive "B" position on two seperate cables, both in their position on the cables and with their switching via jumpers. Both floppy drives were moved and switched around every which way but sideways!

I have to apologize if this thread has gotten a little out of hand, and I sound frustrated... I just think that everyone is so willing to help, and pass on what they know, (And I'm guilty of this too) that everyone seems forget that sometimes the user does know what they're doing. I truly am greatful for the advice, but yes, I really do know what I'm doing in this case. Rest assured that this is one of those occasions. Yes, I have tried every known configuration of drive to cable position, switch position, cable type; twisted vs non twisted, and I even tried a seperate non twisted cable jus to make sure. I actually spent the better part of 2 hours trying out all of the different settings, and setups that I could. In each case, the Gateway just does not accept a 2nd floppy drive. That's all there is to it. I can accept that. I find it wierd, but I still accept it.

Now can we move forward to the real questions which are, if there were any BIOS upgrades for the 400 series of Gateway computer running a P2 processor, or whether or not an older machine might be better for the purpose? My thinking here is a 386 or 486 running either Windows 3.1, or Windows 95.

Stone said:

Once again, master and slave are IDE features, not floppy features and that goes for cable select as well. I really can't follow what you're trying to convey.

Did you try the 5.25" drive as drive A? If not, you need to try this.

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bettablue said:

that everyone seems forget that sometimes the user does know what they're doing. I truly am greatful for the advice, but yes, I really do know what I'm doing in this case. Rest assured that this is one of those occasions.

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But of course, you can understand that the use of incorrect terminology might suggest otherwise to some.

And, yes, I am at fault for that, of course. (I'm not being sarcasric.) I do truly like all everyone has done, and their willingness to assist. And, yes, my lack of communication skills sometimes get's in the way, but then again when I attempt to be too accurate, it all comes out wrond there too. So, I don't fault everyone nearly as much as I do myself.

This P2 Gateway, and it's twin P3 are great systems, but with both exhibiting the exact same issue and their inability to accept a 2nd floppy drive, they just aren't what I really need, so I guess theonly real option really is to replace it with another system, or to manually swap the drives whenever I need the 5.25". I'll be on the lookout for a decent 386 or 486 that already has dual floppy disks installed; something with a decent video driver, and that can still be upgraded somewhat. That way there won't be any issues with trying to install something that wasn't there to begin with.

Thanks everyone. Sorry for wasting your time.

modem7 said:

But of course, you can understand that the use of incorrect terminology might suggest otherwise to some.

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bettablue said:

Thanks everyone. Sorry for wasting your time.

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Hey, it's not a waste of anybody's time. And, we're not done yet, either.

Does the CMOS Setup in those machines allow for both floppies? You know, a line to choose floppy A and a second line to choose floppy B. If so you should be able to have two floppies installed together.

Is the floppy controller on the motherboard or on an expansion card? Give a response for each machine if they are different. I'm guessing it's on the motherboard. If it's on the motherboard you could probably insert a floppy controller card into a slot and try that out. There's probably a setting in your setup to enable/disable the onboard floppy controller.

I do love persistance! (also not being sarcastic)

Q) Does the CMOS Setup in those machines allow for both floppies? You know, a line to choose floppy A and a second line to choose floppy B. If so you should be able to have two floppies installed together.

A) No, the CMOS only has one line, and that is to either anable or disable the floppy drive, and then it is only on drive A that is ever listed. Now, if there is something I can do to ferify this to make completely sure, I'll be more than happy to oblige. But during the bootup, pressing F1 brings me into the BIOS setup. Tab over to the Advanced page, and arrow down to floppy setup. In that window there is a line that specifies the floppy controller forone of 3 settings. enable, disable, or auto. And finally under that, is a line labeled "Diskette A" where the drive type is selected. Only one drive type can be chosen, and there is never an option to add a 2nd drive, even with the 2nd drive installed using any of the configurations we've previously discussed. In addition; both of these Gateway computers have the same exact BIOS configuration screens. As I said; wierd.

The model I'm currently using is GP6-400, with a standard 1.44 Meg Mitsubishi 3.5" floppy and the 5.25" drive is a Teac 360K DDSD drive. Unfortunately, I don't know the model numbers of either without completely removing them both. Both of the floppy drives worked fine in my previous Tweener, a Dell tower that I had Frankensteined together. There was just no room in that small tower to do anything with. And since I had to remove it's CD Rom in order to install the 2nd floppy, was also pretty useless to me.

OK, I think , let me repeat, THINK, I have everything covered. Does anything I have included here help? Or is there something still missing? LEt's get to the bottom if it.

;-)

Stone said:

Hey, it's not a waste of anybody's time. And, we're not done yet, either.

Does the CMOS Setup in those machines allow for both floppies? You know, a line to choose floppy A and a second line to choose floppy B. If so you should be able to have two floppies installed together.

Is the floppy controller on the motherboard or on an expansion card? Give a response for each machine if they are different. I'm guessing it's on the motherboard. If it's on the motherboard you could probably insert a floppy controller card into a slot and try that out. There's probably a setting in your setup to enable/disable the onboard floppy controller.

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So, yank the floppy controller from Alice and put it in the Gateway. Of course, if you happen to have an extra floppy controller you won't need to bother Alice. Make sure the Gateway has the controller set to disable or auto. Disable would be a sure thing. Then try both floppies. See if you can set them up from there. If you can all you would need is a floppy controller for the Gateway.

Ooops.. Nice try, but I gotta shhot you gown again. I know you're trying though. That won't work either though. The floppy controller in the Gateway is integrated into the mobo. I suppose I could add a floppy controller, but will Windows 95 pick it up? Will the Gateway's BIOS need to be configured? Because although I won't move Alice's controller, I may just try an ISA floppy controller; if that will work. One more small item, the Gateway computers both have a single ISA slot for expansion. Do you think adding a floppy controller will do the trick? I would hate to buy one and then have it not work. I suppose, I could remoce the controller fromm my Compaq Portable.... More possibilities, and options.

This might be the way to go.

As for moving the controller from Alice, that is absolutely worse than what I'm doing now! Besides, being the one armed man in a wheelchair, taking the monitor off the top of Alice isn't the easiest thing for me to do. One slip and I have IBM salad! I would much rather switch the connector on the floppy drives as I'm doing now. Besides, the only reason I need the 5.25" drive is to write a floppy for Alice. So, that would definitely be a chore just to get a couple of disks ready for me to use on the 5150. I'm prinarilly only using the 5.25" disks to transfer files and programs over to the expansion unit's drives.

Stone said:

So, yank the floppy controller from Alice and put it in the Gateway. Of course, if you happen to have an extra floppy controller you won't need to bother Alice. Make sure the Gateway has the controller set to disable or auto. Disable would be a sure thing. Then try both floppies. See if you can set them up from there. If you can all you would need is a floppy controller for the Gateway.

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To the point of a BIOS update, can you get us some numbers off the board, its VERY likely the board is an Intel board, and we might be able to find you an Intel (or other mfgs) BIOS image that would work, gateway didn't make boards back then, they just stuck their logo and info in a customized BIOS to identify it as theirs.

You may want to invest in a pre-flashed BIOS chip if we find a compatible one, in the case the board doesn't like a generic BIOS or we get the model wrong, then you can just swap chips back to the stock one, also there may be some check that has to pass to update with Intel/Generic BIOS image and it would be easier to just chip swap in that case. There's a few sellers on ebay (or badflash.com, used them a few times to recover from failed BIOS flashs) who will custom program a new BIOS chip for you, or if you have your own EEPROM/flash burner, all you would need would be a compatible chip.

Thank you for this info.

I personally like the idea of updating the BIOS infinitely more than adding the 2nd controller card. So, that is certainly the option I would like to go with. I don't have an EEPROM/flash burner of my own, and to be completely honest, I wouldn't even know where to begin with one.

Quote: You may want to invest in a pre-flashed BIOS chip if we find a compatible one, End Quote

This sounds excellent! What am I looking at as far as cost to my door? I'll have to start budgeting for that expense, plus other vintage computer related items coming my way...

I'll attempt to get the Mobo info for you today. That is if I can get to the Mobo without doing a complete Lobotomy. Again, the model number is: GP6-400. If for some reason I can't get into the system far enough to get the Mobo info, what other information can I get that will help you?

RWallmow said:

To the point of a BIOS update, can you get us some numbers off the board, its VERY likely the board is an Intel board, and we might be able to find you an Intel (or other mfgs) BIOS image that would work, gateway didn't make boards back then, they just stuck their logo and info in a customized BIOS to identify it as theirs.

You may want to invest in a pre-flashed BIOS chip if we find a compatible one, in the case the board doesn't like a generic BIOS or we get the model wrong, then you can just swap chips back to the stock one, also there may be some check that has to pass to update with Intel/Generic BIOS image and it would be easier to just chip swap in that case. There's a few sellers on ebay (or badflash.com, used them a few times to recover from failed BIOS flashs) who will custom program a new BIOS chip for you, or if you have your own EEPROM/flash burner, all you would need would be a compatible chip.

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