Help needed with computer specifics for fictional story!

Viral code with "superuser" permissions can do anything, but why change the main menu language? That would be very obvious. If the code is meant to brag, like a virus, then sure. But if it's meant to mean something ominous and foreboding in your story, then it would have much more impact if it did NOT make itself known, and the others gradually discover its existence through subtle things going wrong. Just my $0.02.

Ecto_Jedi said:

As an aside, what sorts of techniques would you imagine using to counter such an attack? Is there any possible way of stopping a denial-of-service attack once it gets going? I've got my computer doing this -- it is a government supercomputer, after all -- but I don't know the specifics. Perhaps some details on the process will open up some story possibilities. At the very least, it'll add some verisimilitude.

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A big red reset button?

Well, you are not going to have big flashing screens that say "unauthorized access detected". But the sirens will go off the moment the first user calls up and says they can't print.... :shocked:

But if the code somehow restarts at boot and immediately renders the system unusable, they might have to remount disks under different environments or use a maintenance mode, or something like that to search through everything. At any rate, a lot of downtime just because of one trouble making user.

Ecto_Jedi said:

Also, once the denial-of-service attack's been dealt with, I've got the pernicious little piece of code changing the entire system -- the menu system, that is -- of the supercomputer into another language. (Not computer language, but actual language.) It's a nice twist that ties in to some story elements I established earlier. I'm not particularly concerned with whether or not this is feasible, because again, creative license lends me a certain leeway, but I'm curious as to what you guys think. Doable?

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That would probably happen anyway without any intervention Oh, look, we forgot to set the language parameter in the startup file... Did we keep the manual that tells us how to fix that?

Well, fortunately if you're code is savvy enough to change the system files/menu, then it's trivial for it to go ahead and add itself to the startup routine or at least the initialization code for the BBS portion so a reboot would resume it or start it all over again.

To counter the attack depending on what it is and what you decide the supercomputer looks like (mainframes are quite different than unix) but you would technically be able to see all users currently logged on and also usually see what processes/jobs each user is running. If you found the user that's logged in remotely that has hundreds of jobs running you could kick off the user (or terminate their session which is just like an "end task" option in any OS). That may or may not end the jobs running (probably not) as them so then you'd have to find any job running again as that user or with that process name and either kill them one by one or create a job to start killing all jobs containing the word "x". This may end up being a task in itself depending on how quickly the system can spawn new jobs vs find the resources to kill them but generally it would take less time to kill a task than create one (unless all resources are already at 100% then it may take a long time or never before it can create a new process). If that was the case a reboot or shutdown would likely be required.

Then as SomeGuy once said it's up to the operators whether the system comes back up and resumes it's degrading performance or take it offline to start repairing it or restoring it from some other methods. The other probably responsible thing to do (whether they follow through on this) would be disable the account that was compromised or change the password of the account that was previously compromised. However I've seen lots of examples where that wasn't done so the person was able to go right back in and modify the system like they did the first place.

SomeGuy said:

A lot of TV shows and stories try to explain their technology but fail horribly. So they built a bunch of nanites that replicated and filled the world? What? you can't build complex enough machines that small. And they inhibit electricity. WTF BS, how exactly would anything do what?! And they were remotely controlled by some bad guys?? BS. And now they have become sentient, where sentient means human-like thought. WTF No! And they can act as a super weapon that incinerates people. WTF, whatever. And they communicate with people by causing visions or hallucinations, but they were never designed or programmed to do that. WTF, really? Oh, and they can heal people and bring back the dead! What kind of bad joke is this? give me a break! I suppose it also has an IP tracker GUI front end written in VB?

Those people should have just played the "built with mystical supernatural technology" card from day one, like some mind warping anime.

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Wow, you know the plot to my unpublished novel without reading it, but in that it actually takes about three weeks before anyone notices that there's mystical supernatural technology involved. The only redeeming thing about my novel is that it is pretty tongue in cheek and WTF is probably the right way to view it -- or is it? Apparently it's bad form to use a deus ex machina in your novel so I used an apparent machina ex deo instead as a joke -- maybe. Is that cheating then? If anyone wants to judge for themselves they can have the novella version as a PDF for free.

So far as the original problem goes, I like the idea of something instead of a coin inserted into the arcade machine influencing it and even being the regular means of communication. The object could look like a foreign coin but actually contain data encoded into the pattern on its surface, maybe by using two different materials in the manner of some modern coins. This requires there to be people acting in collusion with the evil computer transporting the tokens back and forth. In other words the solution to the problem is the "sneakernet", i.e. footsoldiers. The challenge then is to overcome both the machine itself and the network of people that it coordinates, but is the mastermind the computer or a human? This reminds me of the film Billion Dollar Brain which, as it happens, features my favourite computer, the Honeywell 200, but gave the "Brain" abilities beyond what was conventionally possible in the 1960s.

I wouldn't worry about including implausible technical fiction in your writing. Most "real life" novels seem to depend on humans behaving in unbelievable ways, so why not machines? In my novel even the four-dimensional mathematics is fictional, but I doubt that many people will complain about that when there are so many other things to complain about. Look how popular the CSI TV series have been even though they insist on being able to resolve a recognisible person's face out of a single pixel in a photo. Publish and be damned I say.

Ecto_Jedi said:

... I've got the pernicious little piece of code changing the entire system -- the menu system, that is -- of the supercomputer into another language. (Not computer language, but actual language.) It's a nice twist that ties in to some story elements I established earlier. I'm not particularly concerned with whether or not this is feasible, because again, creative license lends me a certain leeway, but I'm curious as to what you guys think. Doable?

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I'm still chasing through this thread picking up on the ideas. Changing the human language is a nice touch. Our office once got a trial software package to try out and part of the way through using it it presented me with a form entirely in French. Fortunately there was a Frenchman in our team and we were able to complete the form, but that resulted in an error message appearing in Italian! Need I say that fortunately we had an Italian in our team and I was able to ask him what the Italian for "Cancel" was. Maybe randomly changing the language was a way to remind you to buy the proper version but I don't think we ever did.

lol I've always found it funny when they see those poor quality streetcam photos then random tapping on the keyboard and it pulls up in enhanced quality. But yeah.. instead of artists sticking to only writing biographies and non-fiction stories of things that have already happened they instead invented fiction and science-fiction for the plausible but fun minded what-if stories out there.

Hopefully we don't scream at authors for their imagination in plots. I still think it's neat that we even get folks asking questions in general here for opinions on what could have been or how things looked in a certain era to even try to make their stories a bit more believable. However that's never made me not watch a show or read something that I've enjoyed no matter the realism or lack there of for a hero to do what they do in a story. Otherwise 99% of our shows and books would be about a would-be hero running into the line of fire and dying like a normal person lol.

barythrin said:

I still think it's neat that we even get folks asking questions in general here for opinions on what could have been or how things looked in a certain era to even try to make their stories a bit more believable.

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Your enthusiasm for detail has been a great help, barythrin, especially your descriptions of early-'80s portable computers, acoustic couplers, and the mechanics of connecting and uploading code. When it comes to writing it's all in the details, I think. The importance of not getting bogged down and letting things stand in the way of the drama notwithstanding, it's fun to include nods to reality, especially if you're dealing with a distinct period in time.

Ecto_Jedi said:

The importance of not getting bogged down and letting things stand in the way of the drama notwithstanding, it's fun to include nods to reality, especially if you're dealing with a distinct period in time.

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Just be prepared to ask questions of non-computer people as you get farther in your script. Us computer types usually don't watch "computer" entertainment that doesn't try very hard to be believable (Hackers, The Net, Lawnmower Man, etc.) because it rubs us the wrong way. It's the same reasons lawyers don't watch legal dramas, why doctors don't watch medical dramas, etc.

I hate to say it, but it's why Computer Chess really irked me. I felt it was striving for realism in setting but not in details. And it wouldn't have taken very much effort to get the details right!

The few exceptions are times when the movie completely shoots for the ludicrous, like Tron or The Matrix. Those are quite enjoyable to computer people as they are so clearly based in fantasy.

Trixter said:

Just be prepared to ask questions of non-computer people as you get farther in your script. Us computer types usually don't watch "computer" entertainment that doesn't try very hard to be believable (Hackers, The Net, Lawnmower Man, etc.) because it rubs us the wrong way. It's the same reasons lawyers don't watch legal dramas, why doctors don't watch medical dramas, etc.

I hate to say it, but it's why Computer Chess really irked me. I felt it was striving for realism in setting but not in details. And it wouldn't have taken very much effort to get the details right!

The few exceptions are times when the movie completely shoots for the ludicrous, like Tron or The Matrix. Those are quite enjoyable to computer people as they are so clearly based in fantasy.

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Fair enough. More details: currently I'm having the team running the supercomputer trying to re-run the program, or login, and being stymied by a flashing message that reads: "Insufficient Memory: Access Denied." It looks good on the screen, I suppose, but is that in any way plausible?

Also, I speak of the team "not bothering to reconfigure their firewall," which is what makes the upload of viral code to the computer by our heroes so easy. I know firewalls were mentioned as early as 1983 in the film WarGames, but does that bit of the story make any sense? I assume a firewall would have prevented someone from dialing in and uploading code, correct?

At the same time though, when I heard people complain about the movie Hackers (I don't care; I liked it since the attitudes/culture matched a lot of folks I knew humorously) but I had to remind them. Besides the government never likely allowing an actual detailed hacking movie to be released, most of the audience would walk out other than a handful of us who might understand the commands or concepts applied. The plain gist of it is in most cases is pretty damn slow and boring lol. So it's a fine line. Too many details and you'll lose the probable audience.

What was the name of that one movie that had fairly real commands.. Antitrust?

The subject under discussion is a fictional story. Good fiction is a cocktail of absolute fiction and reality and like any cocktail it's the proportions that make it. The boundaries between fiction and reality are continually moving, even the historical ones, so any critic claiming that something isn't credible is on thin ice. Would a fictional story about a group of hackers using an electronic computer to decode encrypted messages in WWII have been acceptable before the real truth about Colossus at Bletchley Park was revealed? In a swords and sandals epic would we laugh if someone pulled out his pocket computer, his Antikythera device, to do a few quick calculations? I went to the same school as S. T. Coleridge, who brought the concept of suspension of disbelief into being (not at the same time of course; I'm not quite that old.) and it's an esential attitude to all apparent fiction. In my attempt to write a novel my supercomputer (fortunately in an imprecisely defined era) is made up of some 40,000 complete semiconductor slices. I've no idea what the processing power of such a device would actually be and if there is anyone sad enough to work it out I hope they aren't reading this (but they may well be).

Computers are so deeply embedded in society nowadays, even in our greetings cards and product labels, that a story with a computer as a central character can easily turn out to be as engaging as a book about calligraphy. (Font designers please disregard this remark.) In fact excessive use of CGI has turned the fascination of films on its head. Where once we would have marvelled at incredible stunts and wondered how they were achieved we now yawn and say "Oh look, someone has a computer." Even in those swords and sandals epics we suspect that the cast of thousands is computer generated as well as all the scenery. The only wonder left is that of the comprehending computer buff who watches some children's story and thinks just how much computer power was needed to create realistic furry animals.

RobS said:

...a story with a computer as a central character can easily turn out to be as engaging as a book about calligraphy. (Font designers please disregard this remark.)

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This, unfortunately, underscores my original point. If realism isn't attempted even halfheartedly, then the work will be enjoyed by everyone *not* familiar with the subject.

Ecto_Jedi said:

Fair enough. More details: currently I'm having the team running the supercomputer trying to re-run the program, or login, and being stymied by a flashing message that reads: "Insufficient Memory: Access Denied." It looks good on the screen, I suppose, but is that in any way plausible?

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Either "insufficient memory" or "access denied", but not both. It would be more plausible to have only "insufficient memory", as a byproduct of what is happening to the system.

Also, I speak of the team "not bothering to reconfigure their firewall," which is what makes the upload of viral code to the computer by our heroes so easy. I know firewalls were mentioned as early as 1983 in the film WarGames, but does that bit of the story make any sense? I assume a firewall would have prevented someone from dialing in and uploading code, correct?

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I think not bothering to update their firewall makes more sense, since all firewalls come configured out of the box to block all traffic, and it's up to the customer to poke holes where needed. Saying "update" implies that a security or stability update to the firewall software had not been applied, and whoever got past the firewall used a vulnerability in the firewall software itself.

I suppose "reconfigured" makes sense in a situation where the customer had poked too many holes and the attacker got in through one of them. But that would have to be a fairly incompetent customer.

Ecto_Jedi said:

Fair enough. More details: currently I'm having the team running the supercomputer trying to re-run the program, or login, and being stymied by a flashing message that reads: "Insufficient Memory: Access Denied." It looks good on the screen, I suppose, but is that in any way plausible?

Also, I speak of the team "not bothering to reconfigure their firewall," which is what makes the upload of viral code to the computer by our heroes so easy. I know firewalls were mentioned as early as 1983 in the film WarGames, but does that bit of the story make any sense? I assume a firewall would have prevented someone from dialing in and uploading code, correct?

Click to expand...

As Trixter said, for the error message, probably one of the two or the system would just hang after the "logon: " prompt after you try to log in since it can't do anything if it's completely consumed. But for a clearer picture for the end reader yes it could potentially print an error then post the logon or login prompt again or anything else.

Firewalls sure, but in the security industry we try to remind folks a lot that a firewall doesn't block an attack. It just blocks access to those who you don't allow in. If you have a firewall between your computer and the internet but have it allowing access to your website then it blocks nothing if folks are attacking your website since you've told it to allow access. Regardless I suppose if the supercomputer had some sort of firewall configuration on it where you could explicitly deny connections or numbers then allow all else it could be feasible.

Thank you all once again. Your comments and suggestions were a great help. I've put aside this particular project, as per the plan, to get some distance and a better bead on things. I may in fact return in a few weeks' time with some more questions for you awesome guys and gals. Till then, thanks again, and keep on computin'.

Hi guys!

...I'm back, after all those weeks working on another project of mine. Two months afforded me some new perspective on the piece and I'm already balls deep into a new draft of the script. I'm glad I can count on you guys going forward for any vintage computer-related questions I may run into.

First up: I have a line spoken by one of my characters, while accessing a library computer (remember, this story takes place in 1983):

"Most universities use a PACX network. I can search the business database if I connect to the mainframe."


Is this factually accurate? Does it make sense to connect to "the mainframe"?