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AlphaServers

billdeg

billdeg

Technician
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
3,885
Location
Landenberg, PA USA
I assume the topic of Digital's AlphaServers goes here...these are contemporaries of the early WWW machines. I recently got the following two running, and for the first time in my life I now have a GUI-driven Digital machine running OpenVMS. I always admired these when they were modern.

thm_Digital_Alpha_2100_4-275_front.jpg

AlphaServer 2100 4/275

thm_Digital_Alpha_533au2_front.jpg

Digital Alpha Ultimate Workstation 533au2
 
Nice boxes: you could imagine AltaVista running on those. :) My only OpenVMS system right now is a VAXstation 3100/M76 (which has SPX graphics, but I don't have a monitor for it, so the G5 acts as its X terminal).

I'm almost done building a DEC AlphaPC 164LX, though. Tru64 is on the way along with some nice Alpha leaping cat decals for the case. I've heard of people running VMS on it, though it's definitely not supported.
 
I have two AS800 and an AS1200. They are the white box DS3305 and DS5305 versions (Windows NT only) but I swapped out the CPUs from DS to AS versions so that they report themselves now as the AlphaServer versions. I have either OpenVMS 8.4 or Tru64 5.1B-something installed on them. They are buried under some other stuff at the moment and I haven't powered them up in a while. I should dig them out sometime and take some photos.

I also have a couple of ES47 boxes for a 4 CPU system. Those are quite a beast. I probably shouldn't have acquired those.
 
I screwed something up....My 1200 system (the blue 533au2) is not booting into VMS anymore. Too much messing around with parameters. I am looking ultimately to put a newer version of VMS on this box.
 
What exactly is different between an Ultimate Workstation 533 and an AlphaServer 1200?

It's not obvious from a quick browse through this manual:

AlphaServer 1200
DIGITAL Ultimate Workstation 533
Service Manual
Order Number: EK–AS120–SV. A01
http://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/Alpha_533au2/as120sva.pdf

My DS5305 originally had a single B3107-CA 533MHz CPU module. After swapping that out for a AS1200 B3007-CA 533MHz CPU module the system still identified itself as a DS5305. I also had to swap the DS5305 54-25147-02 motherboard out for an AS1200 54-25147-01 motherboard before the system identified itself as an AS1200. I don't know if there is anything that can be reprogrammed on the motherboards to convert between the two. They look identical as far as I can tell. Tru64 fails during installation on the system as a DS5305. I think I have two AS1200 B3007-CA 533MHz CPU modules in the system now and also maxed out the memory at 2GB just for the heck of it.
 
I don't know enough yet, I am new to AlphaServers. There is an NT version and a UNIX/VAX version of the 533, but mine seems to be able to handle both depending which BIOS you select. There is a lot on the web th I am resisting going NT, I'd prefer VAX or UNIX.

The manual from my web site is next on the list, I am sure I will get it going, I messed up the boot and console values.

Bill
 
Tru64 fails during installation on the system as a DS5305.
Click to expand...

How does it fail, specifically?

There is an NT version and a UNIX/VAX version of the 533, but mine seems to be able to handle both depending which BIOS you select.
Click to expand...

My suspicion is that's the only difference. If you have the SRM console on, it should do Tru64 and VMS (and Linux, and NetBSD). If you have AlphaBIOS, it will do NT, and I think Linux can boot under that as well. You can probably switch back and forth: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/SRM-HOWTO/x31.html
 
ClassicHasClass said:
How does it fail, specifically?
Click to expand...

When I first got my white box Digital Server 5305 (maybe around 4 years ago now) I found this site with some useful information:

http://members.tele2.nl/hvlems/

I was seeing the same behavior mentioned there, that the Tru64 installation process would begin on a DS5305 but then panic very early in the installation process while it completed successfully when both the CPU and motherboard were swapped with AS1200 versions keeping everything else the same. Swapping just the CPU wasn't sufficient.

Even though it is possible to run VMS on white box Alpha's, running Tru64 is less easy. Tru64 installs on a Digital Server 3000, versions V5.0A and V5.1B worked well.
However, installing Tru64 on a Digital Server 5305 just does not work. The process fails immediately after the kernel is loaded from the cdrom and panics when it tries to allocate swapspace. The same cd works fine on an Alpha Server 1200. So there still is a puzzle to solve.
Click to expand...

The Digital Server 5305 and the AlphaServer 1200 share many parts and configuration rules apply equally for both models.
So what happens if you put both a B3007-CA (AS 1200) and a B3107-CA (DS 5305) together in one system?
The quick answer is that irrespective of the position of the two boards, the system remains a Digital Server 5305. The last line printed by srm, immediately before it starts the operating system proper, shows the identification string for the processor. Which is what VMS reports back too and whether the B3007-CA was in the top cpu slot or in the bottom slot, in both cases the system remained sure it was a Digital Server.
The main reason for the experiment was that if it succeeded in making a dual-cpu AlphaServer 1200 it would have been possible to install Tru64 on a 5305 fitted with an extra AS1200 cpu. The Tru64 installation process fails on a 5305.
Click to expand...
 
ClassicHasClass said:
How does it fail, specifically?



My suspicion is that's the only difference. If you have the SRM console on, it should do Tru64 and VMS (and Linux, and NetBSD). If you have AlphaBIOS, it will do NT, and I think Linux can boot under that as well. You can probably switch back and forth: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/SRM-HOWTO/x31.html
Click to expand...

This was I think the "un-doing" of Digital as a company. When it ported NT to the Alpha line it realized it couldn't sell the Alpha's into the commodity market at the price they were charging. So they brought out "White Box" versions of the systems. As you surmise, the only difference was the white box systems had a reduced function BIOS and couldn't boot VMS or Ultrix, and were substantially cheaper.

This did nothing for either market place. They didn't sell terribly well to the Windows market place. Only a few applications were available as native alpha applications, and whilst they were quick, in terms of raw CPU, for many NT Server applications it was I/o through put that's the bottle neck. The ALPHAs were not that great at I/O so the customers didn't get the expected performance boost for SQL server or Microsoft Exchange which were available as Alpha ports. Worse still they often ended up with an "normal" Xeon server as well, as some of the SQL and Exchange add-ins, such as the IBM Profs Gateway were only available as I86 applications.

In the VMS and Ultix world , where folks still had to pay a premium price for the server, they now all felt that DEC was "ripping them off" by charging more for the Hardware and Software as VMS was , of course much more expensive that Windows...
 
gslick said:
My DS5305 originally had a single B3107-CA 533MHz CPU module. After swapping that out for a AS1200 B3007-CA 533MHz CPU module the system still identified itself as a DS5305. I also had to swap the DS5305 54-25147-02 motherboard out for an AS1200 54-25147-01 motherboard before the system identified itself as an AS1200. I don't know if there is anything that can be reprogrammed on the motherboards to convert between the two. They look identical as far as I can tell. Tru64 fails during installation on the system as a DS5305. I think I have two AS1200 B3007-CA 533MHz CPU modules in the system now and also maxed out the memory at 2GB just for the heck of it.
Click to expand...

ClassicHasClass said:
My suspicion is that's the only difference. If you have the SRM console on, it should do Tru64 and VMS (and Linux, and NetBSD). If you have AlphaBIOS, it will do NT, and I think Linux can boot under that as well. You can probably switch back and forth: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/SRM-HOWTO/x31.html
Click to expand...

My guess it's that ROM code is slightly different. Probably they didn't even bother to remove the code, but just disabled the SRM option, but... there should be a way to hack it though. Try to dump your ROMs and compare them, if you want. There should be some slight difference.
I got a PWS 500a, wich should be Windows only, but I can get to SRM and boot both OpenVMS and NetBSD without problems. I don't know the hardware on your AS, but i had to use an SCSI CD-ROM in my box to be able to install VMS, due to missing IDE support.
 
My 533 (1200) gives you the choice to boot from either BIOS (VMS/Linux or NT). Off the top of my head I forget the command from the >>> to get to either, but it was in the manual when you get started.

My 533 I think has a power supply issue, when one boots the system it gets to a point and then pzoooommmmm (with smaller and smaller M's).

My 2100 4/276 is now in my basement, I need to fix the data drive, bummer it's got an error.

Bill
 
g4ugm said:
Are they really ROMS. Pretty sure they are flashable...
Click to expand...

I'll have to pull out my DS5305 motherboard and take a look. Some of the parts have to be flash since you can update the firmware. Anything that is in a socket I could pull out and read, but I think there might be some soldered down parts.
 
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