LC, MacTCP, and DHCP

I got a network card for an LC; Farallon - I can check the model but I don't think any of that matters. All the diagnostic tests show the card as being okay. MacTCP Ping works fine and gets to the router (but not past local network addresses).

I set a static IP (192.168.1.251) on the router for the LC's MAC address. When I set an IP manually on MacTCP (2.0.4 I think - but 2.x), I think it shows up on the router. Two things: 1) it's a Verizon FIOS router. 2) I say I think because the MAC address shows up but I have no other indication of connectivity. I haven't been able to ping any servers or load any pages (I have MacWWW and MacWeb 1.1 (the LC only has 4mb or RAM)).

I guess the simplest form of my question would be to someone who's already done this: what am I doing very wrong? What's the easiest way to get an LC past a DHCP server and onto the net? I'm assuming attempting to use the DHCP server to distribute an IP address to the LC just flatly won't work?

MacTCP doesn't do DHCP, only OpenTransport.

If you've set a static IP for the LC's MAC, assuming that's all that's wrong, you just set MacTCP to that static IP and you're done. Make sure your gateway and netmask are correct.

Yeah that was my understanding. By get past DHCP I meant bypass.

Unfortunately those settings all seem to be correct. So it's likely on the router-end, which I basically expected. I may not have done the IP right. In this case, the connections screen registers the connection as expired in contrast to an active lease. I'm not certain the router actually registers activity from the machine properly, even though each claims it successfully pings the other.

You may need to pass the older system through an older switch or hub.

And Open Transport doesn't work pre-68030, right? I forgot to mention that's why I'm going this route (for the LC). I got an error that said it'll only run/install on 68030 and later. I assumed at the time that that was something fundamental to OT and not a version issue. The info I've found via google suggests that is true of all versions of OT.

Will putting it through an old router (and then to the FIOS router?) actually let it get to the internet? Otherwise I'll go back to trying a localtalk-ethernet software bridge on the SE/30. I figured this would be simpler, honestly.

Correct IIRC. MacTCP isn't likely to be the problem here anyway.

You don't want to hook it up to another router -- Caluser's suggestion is to hook it up to a hub, like an old 10Mbit one, and connect that to your router. This gets around various problems with autonegotiation on older networking cards.

Wait, actually I should have mentioned that the ethernet cable isn't coming directly from the router. I have like a rebroadcaster I guess. It comes directly from the coax cable (and through a splitter - one going to the TV, and one to this router). It broadcasts a wifi signal and has two ethernet outs. (http://www.actiontec.com/305.html)

I put the cable from that box I mentioned above to the "Internet" in on an old linksys wired router and then the 1st ethernet out to the LC with even less luck. So I need an actual hub? I had to look them up.

Btw, I'm just going to bypass the issue (hopefully) and use it with my newfound LCII - to print my course syllabi.

Yes, I'd put a hub in between your "repeater" and the LC. Good to have one for that purpose. On my network, most of the systems of that age are on a dedicated 10Mbit segment for that reason.

I found a $4 hub but it had no adapter. I may just buy one on eBay. With the LC II there's no real time issue anymore.

When you say adapter what are you referring too? BNC connector? Or power adapter? Some hubs you just plug in a normal pc power cable without need for an external adapter.

(No, it was a 5V+ AC adapter; it's probably almost as cheap just to buy a new one).

I feel like it's worth noting that Open Transport generally seems to require at least 7.1. I discovered this trying to use OpenTranpsort 1.1.1. on the stock 7.0.1. I've had trouble installing 1.0.8 so far and I only have a netinstall of 1.0 I think. I guess I'll use 7.1 on the LC II and 7.0.1. on the LC (even though that came with 6.0.7 I think).

I'm surprised it seems to be okay on 7.1. I wouldn't use it with anything earlier than 7.5, personally.

Other than this, I've only used it with 7.5 and later. I wanted to sort of factory-reset the LC II, since it's the only 'classic' machine I've had in its original box with all its stuff. After getting it (and also having this problem after installing OT 1.1.1 over what I suspect now was the stock 7.0.1), I replaced the OS with 7.1 [wherein OT worked fine].

After reverting that same issue resurfaced. So clearly 7.0.1 does not work. When I went back through the documentation [http://download.info.apple.com/Appl...ng-Communications/Open_Transport/OT_1.1.1.txt], I noticed:

"Open Transport is designed to work on Mac OS-compatible
computers with a Motorola 68030 or 68040 family
microprocessor, or a PowerPC 601, 603(e), or 604
microprocessor. You should use system software version
7.5.3, 7.5.5 or later with Open Transport, although the
earlier system software versions 7.1, 7.1.1 and 7.1.2
releases are also compatible."

I'd only encountered the processor restriction before. But after finding out OT was released with 7.5, I agree it is surprising - and also unclear to me why that arbitrary compatibility hurdle between 7.0.x and 7.1.

I’m trying to do the same thing, so I hope it’s ok to jump in on this thread. I have a Classic II (7.0.1, Asante EN/SC, MacTCP) connected to a NetGear N300 router and then to the cable modem (ISP = Cox). I’d like to get the Classic II connected to the Internet, but I haven’t had any success. I have a few questions for raoulduke, and I’m open to all suggestions.

1. In MacTCP, what address did you use for the Gateway Address? I’ve entered the IP of router as shown on the router status page.

2. In MacTCP, what did you use for the DNS server information? I entered “cdns2.cox.net” for the first domain, and I used the domain server IPs shown on the Router Status page, e.g., 68.105.28.12. For the other domains, I entered a single “.” Here's what it looks like in MacTCP.

3. How did you set a static IP on the router for your LC's MAC address? I did this: On the router’s LAN set up page there are starting and ending IP address settings. I changed the default start from 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.20. According to a post on the Cox internet forum, this would allow me to use 192.168.1.2 through .19 for static addresses. I’ve been using 192.168.1.15 for the Classic II. I also tried using the Address Reservation on the router’s LAN setup page, again with 192.168.1.15 for the Classic II, but no success. The Cox forum moderator cautioned that this “reserved” IP is still assigned via DHCP and suggested shrinking the range of IPs instead.

The Classic II is not showing up on the router’s attached devices page.

In MacTCP Watcher, it passes TCP and UDP tests on the 192.168.1.15 IP for the Classic II, but fails DNS and Ping. I have AppleTalk turned off.

Is my next step to insert an old 10Mbit hub between the Asante adapter and the router, or are there other issues to conquer first?

Thanks! This thread has been very helpful so far.

Marty

Your gateway is an external address. Shouldn't that be the internal interface of the router?

I thought the same thing.

Success! I had figured out earlier that I needed to use the address of the internal interface of the router (192.168.1.1) rather than the external address, but I didn't realize the MacTCP screenshot I gave you still had the external address.

I think I traced the problem to the link integrity switch on the Asante adapter. I had the switch set correctly (on), but the light for link integrity was blinking. It seemed like the light should be on solid, so I flipped the DIP switch a few times, and the light went solid. Once that happened, I could pass all the tests in MacTCP Watcher (Ping, DNS, etc.) and the Classic II showed up as an attached device on the router.

I'm still unclear on the DNS settings. Does my router act as a DNS server? At present, I have these entries in the DNS section of MacTCP:

Domain = . IP Address = 192.168.1.1 (my router internal interface) (Default)
Domain = . IP Address = 8.8.8.8 (google DNS server)

Would it be better to use the DNS addresses shown in the basic setup of the router (68.105.28.12, 68.105.29.12)? Is it ok to put a period (.) in the Domain Name field of MacTCP rather than the full domain name?

Thanks so much for your help with this!

Marty

I was just about to reply. I'm impressed. I've never gotten MacTCP to work (yet). But now I'll redouble my efforts!

I'm curious to see what you find from fudging with the settings? Does what you asked keep it going or stop the function? I would think you'd have to use the internal router address but I could be wrong. But what about putting nothing the domain field? What about just totally getting rid of the DNS server settings?

Partly I'm curious how much your success and my failures are due to hardware as compared with software. I'll pull out my LC and try OS 7.0.1 stock. Which MacTCP are you using? I also see your router being a lot more forgiving.

Marty C said:

I'm still unclear on the DNS settings. Does my router act as a DNS server? At present, I have these entries in the DNS section of MacTCP:

Domain = . IP Address = 192.168.1.1 (my router internal interface) (Default)
Domain = . IP Address = 8.8.8.8 (google DNS server)

Would it be better to use the DNS addresses shown in the basic setup of the router (68.105.28.12, 68.105.29.12)? Is it ok to put a period (.) in the Domain Name field of MacTCP rather than the full domain name?

Click to expand...

The addresses the router is showing are probably the ones it got from your ISP during autodiscovery of network settings. A cursory reverse lookup indicates these look like the Cox internal subscriber DNS servers. You could see if anything answers on your router's internal interface to port 53 (UDP or TCP), but even if it does, it most likely just forwards the request to the Cox servers anyway. You don't need to use an internal facing DNS server once your gateway is set correctly, so you could just use Google's if you wanted.

As it happens, I have internal DNS servers on my secured network, but I do so for specific purposes (to spoof certain hosts so that IoT devices trying to phone home get blackholed, but mostly because of my incredible paranoia).