8086/88 question

Does anybody here know if the i8086/88 was ever made in an LCC or PLCC package, or were they all 40-pin DIPPs? (I know they came in both plastic and ceramic packages).

--T

Ok, so I just won an auction on eBay, for an Ampro Little Board SBC. It's supposed to be an 80186. I searched the net, and found this page with jumper settings for an Ampro LB 8088, or so it says:

http://www.megasat.ch/totalhardware/m/A-B/33643.htm

Looking at the diagram of the board, the CPU socket appears to be a chip-carrier type of socket, (LCC, PLCC) rather than a DIPP socket. Is there something wrong with this picture, or am I missing something? The only '186 chips I have ever seen of that vintage were ceramic LCCs, as were some of the early '286s, but I've never heard of an 8088 in that type of package.

--T

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Ok, so I just won an auction on eBay, for an Ampro Little
> Board SBC. It's supposed to be an 80186. I searched the
> net, and found this page with jumper settings for an Ampro
> LB 8088, or so it says:

> http://www.megasat.ch/totalhardware/m/A-B/33643.htm

> Looking at the diagram of the board, the CPU socket appears
> to be a chip-carrier type of socket, (LCC, PLCC) rather than
> a DIPP socket. Is there something wrong with this picture,
> or am I missing something? The only '186 chips I have ever
> seen of that vintage were ceramic LCCs, as were some of
> the early '286s, but I've never heard of an 8088 in that type
> of package.

What is this thing? A 186 is it? Or an XT? I don't follow what
machine you're referning to, I'm guessing a 186, in which
case I don't know too much about. Many XT however, were
build (perhaps more than 286s, 386s, until I believe the 486
sold more). I'm thinking that if it's an XT type machine that
anything's possible, since the first one came out in 1983 &
were selling into the 1990s & I'm betting that the hardware
changed a little bit in this period, not a lot - but just enough
to have newer features incorporated into the board itself.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

LCC-packaged AMD 8086's: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/8086/PACKAGE-PLCC.html

That's all I could find in terms of LCC chips. It doesn't seem anyone produced LCC 8088's.

"Super-Slasher" wrote:

> That's all I could find in terms of LCC chips.
> It doesn't seem anyone produced LCC 8088's.

Well, that seems like a great way of excluding XTs
I guess! ;-)

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Hey, great link! TNX. (I bookmarked it, of course). I had never seen a plastic-packaged 186 before. Or a PGA '286 for that matter, didn't know they made one.

--T

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Hey, great link! TNX. (I bookmarked it, of course).
> I had never seen a plastic-packaged 186 before.
> Or a PGA '286 for that matter, didn't know they
> made one.

The Siemens 286 processor itself looks Dazzling! )

Cheers,
CP/M User.

CP/M User said:

What is this thing? A 186 is it? Or an XT? I don't follow what
machine you're referning to, I'm guessing a 186, in which
case I don't know too much about. Many XT however, were
build (perhaps more than 286s, 386s, until I believe the 486
sold more). I'm thinking that if it's an XT type machine that
anything's possible, since the first one came out in 1983 &
were selling into the 1990s & I'm betting that the hardware
changed a little bit in this period, not a lot - but just enough
to have newer features incorporated into the board itself.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Click to expand...

I dunno for sure just what it is, it just looked interesting. Other '186 boxes I'm familliar with were just like extra-fast 8086s. They still have only 20 address lines, so they can't access extended memory like the '286, but I believe that you could use an external MMU with some boards, so as to access more than 1Mb by bank-switching or something like that. Either way, I can hardly wait for it to come home, so I can begin to learn all about it.

--T

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> I dunno for sure just what it is, it just looked
> interesting. Other '186 boxes I'm familliar
> with were just like extra-fast 8086s. They
> still have only 20 address lines, so they can't
> access extended memory like the '286, but I
> believe that you could use an external MMU
> with some boards, so as to access more than
> 1Mb by bank-switching or something like that.
> Either way, I can hardly wait for it to come
> home, so I can begin to learn all about it.

Oh Okay.

Not familiar with an external MMU, but it sounds
interesting.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Oh, sorry. Memory Management Unit. Modern Intel chips have them built-in but an older chip might use an external one.

--T

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Oh, sorry. Memory Management Unit. Modern
> Intel chips have them built-in but an older chip
> might use an external one.

What does this external one look like, can you
show a picture?

Cheers,
CP/M User.

CP/M User said:

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Oh, sorry. Memory Management Unit. Modern
> Intel chips have them built-in but an older chip
> might use an external one.

What does this external one look like, can you
show a picture?

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Click to expand...

I googled it, but couldn't find a pic. I did find a lot of good definitions, tho. like this one, from FOLDOC:

http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?memory+management+unit

The MMU in my Cambridge Z88 is one of the functions of the "Blink" gate-array, not a separate chip all on it's own.

--T

"Terry Yager" wrote:

>>> Oh, sorry. Memory Management Unit. Modern
>>> Intel chips have them built-in but an older chip
>>> might use an external one.

>> What does this external one look like, can you
>> show a picture?

> I googled it, but couldn't find a pic. I did find a lot
> of good definitions, tho. like this one, from
> FOLDOC:

Oh okay, it's a piece of hardware in the form of a chip,
designed to manage memory in a particular way.

> The MMU in my Cambridge Z88 is one of the functions
> of the "Blink" gate-array, not a separate chip all on it's
> own.

That's internal, I'd imagine.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

CP/M User said:

"Terry Yager" wrote:

>>> Oh, sorry. Memory Management Unit. Modern
>>> Intel chips have them built-in but an older chip
>>> might use an external one.

>> What does this external one look like, can you
>> show a picture?

> I googled it, but couldn't find a pic. I did find a lot
> of good definitions, tho. like this one, from
> FOLDOC:

Oh okay, it's a piece of hardware in the form of a chip,
designed to manage memory in a particular way.

Click to expand...

Yeah, basically, but memory management may also be implemented in software, IIRC (using the I/O ports and registers of certain CPU chips).

> The MMU in my Cambridge Z88 is one of the functions
> of the "Blink" gate-array, not a separate chip all on it's
> own.

That's internal, I'd imagine.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Click to expand...

Well yeah, sorta. When I said internal in this context, I meant internal to the CPU chip (on-die), not internal to the whole machine.

--T

Well, my Little Board came in the mail today (finally). I contacted Ampro by email ( info@ampro.com ) and within two hours they had sent me a pdf of the Technical Manual for it. Not bad customer support for a 20-year old product! BTW, it has a plcc socketed '186, in a pga<-->plcc adaptor of some kind. Weird...

Oh yeah, there's another one like it on eBay since this morning, if anyone is interested. Starting bid is $29.99. I forgot to make a note of the auction #, but a search for "ampro little board" should locate it.

EDIT: Oh, I found it again. Here it is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3482434265

--T

8088 packages

8088 packages

l don't know how many packages the 8088 came in, I know there were surface mount versions, as used in some palmtops. Check out Digi-key.com, jameco.com, jdr(microdevices).com, other supply houses. They have replacements for '186's and '286's, not sure about 8088's though. I doubt they're still made, nor in supply anywhere. The 80186 was used in TONS of microcontroller/single board computer apps, so they're likely to be around for some time.