IBM PGA adapter

I think I have found an IBM Professional Graphics Adapter. It's three boards sandwiched together, taking up two slots. There are two connections to the bus, both designed for 8 bit buses. The output connector looks like CGA or EGA - 9 pin D shell.

Does anybody have documentation? I know they were very rare due to their cost, and there is no hope of finding the monitor. But being able to read the docs would give me an idea of what I need to look for.



Mike

Ooo! You lucky devil, I am so jealous!

There actually seems to be one or two places you can buy a genuine IBM PGA monitor on the Internet. I used to have the links, but lost them. Just do a bit of searching and I'm sure you'll dig them up. If not, I'll try looking for you.

Computer Reset has both the cards and the monitors listed.

The monitor is an IBM 5175, which is just like a 5154 but with slightly different electronics inside. Resolution is 640x400@256 colors, but unfortunately it's a TTL level signal, not an analog signal like VGA.

It's quite the brick of a card, and I'm really impressed - it has two parallel bus connections, but only for the PC bus. (i.e.: It's an 8 bit card, not a 16 bit card.)

Even with the monitor it is still pretty much a paperweight without drivers or the technical documentation ...

Just out of curiousity, are they PC- or XT- slots? Can you change the spacing by adding or removing spacers, or what?

Even with the proper drivers & docs, would you still have to find apps that were written specifically for that card? I'd guess not many standard apps would know what to do with the hardware. (Can you say AutoDesk?)

--T

The spacing of the slots is for an XT or a AT. A 5150 can't take this beast, as a 5150 has slots that are further apart. Also I imagine the power draw on this is quite big.

I was wrong about the resolution - it's more like 640x480 ... It apparently was quite a beautiful piece of hardware in it's day, which is what makes it interesting.

"mbbrutman" wrote:

> The spacing of the slots is for an XT or a AT.
> A 5150 can't take this beast, as a 5150 has
> slots that are further apart. Also I imagine
> the power draw on this is quite big.

I have this software guide to the IBM PC & XT
& that has a PGA in it that book was made in
1984.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

CP/M User said:

"mbbrutman" wrote:

> The spacing of the slots is for an XT or a AT.
> A 5150 can't take this beast, as a 5150 has
> slots that are further apart. Also I imagine
> the power draw on this is quite big.

I have this software guide to the IBM PC & XT
& that has a PGA in it that book was made in
1984.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Click to expand...

Does your software guide indicate whether or not the PGA requires specially-written software to function at it's full capability?

--T

Oh jeez, that's right. I never considered about the drivers... I just assumed that it would be more along the lines of plug-and-play like EGA and CGA (seeing how most programs automatically had support for those types of monitors), but seeing how the PGA was a very professional type of display, it wouldn't be supported for any programs unless you had the drivers for it.

Would undoubtedly work in DOS; maybe only is 320x300 mode or something like that, though, but for stuffs like Windows or AutoCAD...?

I can see a great difficulty in obtaining these drivers. :x

"Terry Yager" wrote:

> Does your software guide indicate whether or
> not the PGA requires specially-written software
> to function at it's full capability?

Oh sorry, I made a mistake. It's not PGA based,
it's called COLOR II (which isn't PGA).

I have heard about PGA though, so the best I can
suggest is do a Google Groups search & see what
you can find. I think PGA is compatable with CGA,
but as I said you should check & like the COLOR II
the PGA would have specially written software
which gives you access to it's features.

Cheers,
CP/M User.

Here's one on eBay and according to the pictures, there is a device driver required. The listing also has other info, might be worth looking at...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=5101569261&rd=1

--T

Yes, that's the Richard from Computer Reset - he has them listed (monitor too) on his web site. Occasionally he tries to sell on eBay.

I've been to busy to worry about it .. it's an interesting piece of hardware, but it's not going to make my AT more enjoyable to use. A good 16 bit IDE controller is a much more practical purchase for an old machine.

mbbrutman said:

Yes, that's the Richard from Computer Reset - he has them listed (monitor too) on his web site. Occasionally he tries to sell on eBay.

I've been to busy to worry about it .. it's an interesting piece of hardware, but it's not going to make my AT more enjoyable to use. A good 16 bit IDE controller is a much more practical purchase for an old machine.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and a good (vintage) VGA adaptor probably gives a better display, while still maintaining authenticity in an AT, and costs a whole lot less $$$...

--T

The PGA is a neat device and if one fell into my lap (as it did) I wouldn't turn it down. However it's not worth $80 for the adapter and another 100+ for the monitor, just to be able to run software that I don't have and probably have no chance of finding. And writing software for it would be fun, but I can't get to my normal projects without adding new ones. And even if I did, I'd probably have nobody to share it with ..

Sometimes I find it hard to prioritize what I should be doing with the old machines, and what can wait. The PGA, as notorious as it is, can probably wait.

There are other things I have spent significant time and money on. For example, an adapter to let me run 8 bit PC cards on a PC Jr. (It almost works - still some tweaking to do.) If I ever see another SCSI adapter for the Jr I'd be willing to spend good money on that too. I've spent lots of money for hard to find documentation that I have already made good use of.

My original PC AT (6Mhz upgraded to 8Mhz, ST 225) was upgraded to a 386-40 in 1993. I had kept the original peripherals, including the drive controller and EGA card. A few years ago I added another MFM drive (40 MB), and this year this year I added a Central Point option board.

The two best things I have done to this machine recently are shelving the EGA card and replacing it with a VGA card, and removing the MFM hardware and replacing it with a 16 bit EIDE controller and a 1.2GB drive. The machine is infinitely more usable now - it's primary use is as a diskette copying/archiving station for my PCjrs, and now I can store plenty of diskette images. It's not an original AT anymore, but I have the parts if I need to go back. (Not anytime soon....)

I on the other hand like keeping my PC AT as original as possible. I've got tons of legacy 8/16-bit VGA cards (including a nice full-length ISA Hercules VGA, 256KB, I bileve), but the original EGA works fine. Plus including that all it can run is mainly DOS anyways, why would I shelf my IBM EGA monitor to use a generic monitor instead?

Same with the hard drive. The 30MB IBM MFM hard disk I have in it now is okay enough to store what little I want to on it. I'm actually considering when I get some extra cash from my student loan this fall to spend the $200-$300 to have the original Seagate 20MB MFM hard drive from my AT repaired (platter bearings went). While it is so much to have such an old drive repaired, it will make my AT even more authentic and that way, with practically a new hard drive, I know it can last probably another 18 years!

I'm still looking for more ways to make my system more authentic and complete, including looking for specific program diskettes, manuals(!), maybe even the system case stand if I could ever find one.

Even then, I don't use it much anymore. I haven't turned in on in over a month now. I have to think of a way to put it to good use, hehe.

What I want to do lately is actually network it to my regular system, either through ethernet or a DCC (direct cable connection). I think the latter would be most impressive. I got the universal null-modem serial cable just the other day...

Oh, and mbbrutman, exactly what sort of disk images to you save and have, curiously?

mbbrutman said:

The PGA is a neat device and if one fell into my lap (as it did) I wouldn't turn it down. However it's not worth $80 for the adapter and another 100+ for the monitor, just to be able to run software that I don't have and probably have no chance of finding. And writing software for it would be fun, but I can't get to my normal projects without adding new ones. And even if I did, I'd probably have nobody to share it with ..

Click to expand...

Good point!

Sometimes I find it hard to prioritize what I should be doing with the old machines, and what can wait. The PGA, as notorious as it is, can probably wait.

Click to expand...

I know the feeling all too well. I have ADHD, so naturally, I have dozens of half-finished projects setting around, and add more daily, it seems. I've always been known for setting the current project on the back burner and starting another.

There are other things I have spent significant time and money on. For example, an adapter to let me run 8 bit PC cards on a PC Jr. (It almost works - still some tweaking to do.) If I ever see another SCSI adapter for the Jr I'd be willing to spend good money on that too. I've spent lots of money for hard to find documentation that I have already made good use of.

Click to expand...

I have an old paralell - ST-506 adaptor, if ya think ya might could figger out how to use it, I could let it go fro cheap. Unfortunately, I have no documentation for it, so I'm clueless about it. The guy I got it from said that he used to use it to hang a hard drive off his Osborne 1, which as you probably already know, doesn't have a real paralell port, just an RS-422 serial port, and an IEE-488 (GPIB) socket, which can be cabled in such a way as to use a paralell printer with it somehow. Of course, if you wanted to use it on your Peanut, you'd have to somehow install a paralell port in that, too.

My original PC AT (6Mhz upgraded to 8Mhz, ST 225) was upgraded to a 386-40 in 1993. I had kept the original peripherals, including the drive controller and EGA card. A few years ago I added another MFM drive (40 MB), and this year this year I added a Central Point option board.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a nice setup...

The two best things I have done to this machine recently are shelving the EGA card and replacing it with a VGA card, and removing the MFM hardware and replacing it with a 16 bit EIDE controller and a 1.2GB drive. The machine is infinitely more usable now - it's primary use is as a diskette copying/archiving station for my PCjrs, and now I can store plenty of diskette images. It's not an original AT anymore, but I have the parts if I need to go back. (Not anytime soon....)

Click to expand...

Yes, I have a '386 luggable that I use strictly as a media-transfer station. I can hang a SCSI CD off it and copy files from the Walnut Creek CDROM, or files that I d/l from web-land onto various CP/M 5.25" floppy formats, via sneaker-net.

--T

Super-Slasher said:

What I want to do lately is actually network it to my regular system, either through ethernet or a DCC (direct cable connection). I think the latter would be most impressive. I got the universal null-modem serial cable just the other day...

Oh, and mbbrutman, exactly what sort of disk images to you save and have, curiously?

Click to expand...

DOS's Intersvr/Interlnk programs should work pretty well with that setup, if you're running a recent enough version of DOS. OTOH, since you run XP, I think you'll have to create a DOS bootdisk for the XP machine to use DOS programs on it.

--T

Super-Slasher,

I keep two other PC ATs around, and they are as original as the day they were born. One is an old 6Mhz Type 1 with the original CMI hard drive in it, still working. The other is a later 8Mhz model with just 512K on it and a Seagate 4012? (30MB) drive. Both have matching 5154s on full length EGA cards. The earlier AT has the old keyboard with just 10 function keys. The newer AT has one of the first Model Ms, which I think shipped with it. (That BIOS supports 12 function keys.)

I generally like to keep my machines original too. The AT that I upgraded was an exception. It was 1993 and I had the machine since 1990, and it was too slow to run Turbo C++ 3.0 on. I needed to learn C++ for work, so I needed the upgrade. The replacement motherboard was an AMD 386-40 based board with 128K L2 cache. Memory was 1 MB SIMMS, which cost me $47 per stick back then. With the extra hard drive, I could run Turbo C++ acceptably. And man, what a speed increase - the 386-40 with the L2 cache was nearly as fast as a 486-25 on everything except floating point.

Back then I wasn't collecting my PCs - I was using them. I retired that machine in 1994 when I bit the bullet and upgraded to a 486-66 system running OS/2. The system came out of retirement two years ago to be my diskette copy station.

As for the diskettes, I needed to copy and archive my diskettes before the bits started falling off. Some of the diskettes had gone bad after 15 years of use/disuse. So I did the following:

-Made a raw binary image using 'ditu', which does a block by block copy. This is for non-protected diskettes.

-Made a zip file of the files on each diskette.

- For copy protected diskettes I used Teledisk to make diskette images. I also used a Central Point Option Board, which is a hardware solution that is nearly infallible.

- Scanned the diskette label so that I could get version numbers, serial numbers, etc. without pulling the original diskette out.

I still have a few hundred more diskettes to go through.

Ethernet works fine on an old AT .... I use that to get the diskette images back and forth to my more capable machines. I use the MS Lan requestor for DOS running over TCP/IP. The AT/386 runs DOS 5. It can connect to file shares on a Linux machine and my Windows machines.

It's a ST-506 adapter that runs on a parallel port? It must require device drivers to use it, right? The ST-506 is just the cruddy old MFM interface, so it can drive an ST-225, etc. Tell me more about it ...

Peanuts have parallel ports available as a sidecar - I use my to drive a parallel-to-SCSI adapter for hard drive and CD-ROM support. There is a neat hack you can do to make it PS/2 bi-directional, which helps greatly when running a hard drive off of it.

Oh, that's cool then, mbbrutman.

One of my questions was what kinds of diskettes do you back up? Like what software?

mbbrutman said:

It's a ST-506 adapter that runs on a parallel port? It must require device drivers to use it, right? The ST-506 is just the cruddy old MFM interface, so it can drive an ST-225, etc. Tell me more about it ...

Click to expand...

About all I know about it is that it was made by Konan (a pretty good name), and that it's called a "David Jr" (Konan also made an S-100 controller by the name of "David." This must be it's offspring). I got it on eBay a while back, almost by accident. I was curious about it, so I bid a dollar on it, never expecting to win it for that. Turns out nobody else bid on it at all, so I won it for $.25! The shipping on it was $8.00, so if ya want it for that, I'd let it go real easy. I'll drag it out of storage tomorrow and photograph it for ya if you'd like to see what it looks like.

Peanuts have parallel ports available as a sidecar - I use my to drive a parallel-to-SCSI adapter for hard drive and CD-ROM support. There is a neat hack you can do to make it PS/2 bi-directional, which helps greatly when running a hard drive off of it.

Click to expand...

Yes, I remember the sidecars, but I've never seen the paralell - SCSI one before. Sounds interesting tho. I do remember in the past, running MFM (ST-506) to SCSI host adaptor "bridge boards." I used to have two of them, one that came out of a SUN machine (3/60, IIRC), and the other was of forgotten origin (Adaptec?). Both worked flawlessly running a pair of full-height 5.25" SCSI drives (talk about your power-drain...).

--T