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8gb TURNS INTO 64gb!

DeltaDon

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
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898
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Dutchess County, New York, USA
I have a stack of not configured NOS in the OEM box Pentium One laptops left over from my long ago closed laptop business. With suitable prodding from the wife I've been trying to come up bits and pieces necessary to turn them into complete working machines and to do so at a reasonable cost. One glaring issue is the lack of PATA 8GB (or smaller) hard drives or a cheap replacement for a spinning drive. I've tried CF cards with some success and will continue to look for deals on CF cards in the future. The first problem I had to solve with CF's was the issue of them reporting as portable disks and therefore not able to be boot disks. I solved that using Rufus software. I've also tried to use a few larger CF's and had to use Ontrack to partition the drives once Rufus worked it's magic on the cards. A all well and good solution, but I am always on the outlook for other solutions too. One day I was on the big auction site and stumbled upon a seller selling 18 postage stamp sized Apacer 8GB M2 SSD's for a very very reasonable price. That was a few months ago and I ordered up some M2 to 44 pin adapters to try using them in lieu of the CF cards. Problem after problem getting them working. Rufus (used to load DOS) kept reporting them as being 16GB's in size. WTF? So I tried a different M2 adapter thinking the Chinese messed up the electronics. Nope. Still FUBAR. A few months and some health issues I'm back at it and am using some different software attempting to format the SSD's so they'd behave and be 8GB drives. Well, the problem was they aren't 8GB drives. They are 64GB drives that somebody partitioned as 8GB drives with the remaining space not allocated. o_O

So now I'm digging around for more 4-8 GB CF cards and going to use the M2's in other laptops that can benefit from the larger capacity.

Working with M2 drives for the first time has been a learning experience for me. First off, there's different types of M2's and you had better know which you are working with. Not a major problem in this case. But you need different adapters for the different types unless the adapter is made to handle both types. There are also different length cards and some adapter boards can only use the longer M2 size. Even the adapters that can be configured to use the short cards come with standoffs that may be pushed into place or soldered into place. Trying to remove soldered standoffs thinking they were pushed into place (don't ask) rips the pads off the PCB. So be careful the first time using a different supplier the first time.
 
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That's not uncommon, believe it or not. I've got a digicam whose CF upper limit is 2GB (an old Minolta, but with really good glass). Larger cards are usable if one creates (as the only) a partition of 2GB on them. Given the problem of finding new, good 2GB CF cards, it's worth letting the card go. The same often applies to SDHC cards as well.
 
You could consider using SD cards rather than CF cards -- much more readily available in all sizes and much cheaper. You can get SD to IDE adapters on the big auction site for about $15, and for less on the usual Chinese site.
 
Oh, I have the adapters, but they're less than reliable, it seems. Regardless, small-capacity SDs seem to be vanishing as well. OTOH, I can buy a 64GB SDHC for about $5.
Now, tell me where I can get a 4MB (that's no typo) CF for my very old digicam.
 
Chuck,

Amazon has 4GB CF cards. Cost about the same as for 8GB cards and for 16GB and so on. Some may even be really be from the brand on their labels and/or meet the spec's claimed. In truth, I've not had a problem with any CF cards I've purchased there, but I've not tested them for speed.
 
You didn't read my message carefully--I'm looking for 4MB CF cards! :} Yes, they do exist. I remember sending James a 32MB one with a system installed...
 
Oh, I have the adapters, but they're less than reliable, it seems. Regardless, small-capacity SDs seem to be vanishing as well. OTOH, I can buy a 64GB SDHC for about $5.
Now, tell me where I can get a 4MB (that's no typo) CF for my very old digicam.
I've found them to be picky about your choice of SD card -- thy don't work at all with some otherwise good cards -- but quite reliable once you select a card they like.

Can't help with the 4MB CF cards I'm afraid :) I have an 8MB one in a drawer, but am hanging on to it as a relic of ancient times 🙃
 
I have a couple 16 MB SD cards still kicking around, but 4MB, yeah, that’s pretty oldskool. I think that’s the same size as the SmartMedia (remember that?) card that came with my first digital camera. Might still have that in a box somewhere, maybe…
 
I still have a couple of SM cards, but couldn't tell you offhand what size they are. I think about 4 or 8 MB for my old Fuji digicam.
The small MMCs were used in the 3.5" floppy-replacement gizmo--FlashPath, I believe. Still have a boxed one of those...
 
Oh, I have the adapters, but they're less than reliable, it seems. Regardless, small-capacity SDs seem to be vanishing as well. OTOH, I can buy a 64GB SDHC for about $5.
Now, tell me where I can get a 4MB (that's no typo) CF for my very old digicam.
Just purchased a few 32mb cards, off ebay. Work ok so far for XT-IDE... The pulldown menu lists 32mb, and was indeed what I received.
 
Tangential, perhaps, but:

I do know a reason for making a 64GB SDHC card look smaller via partitioning. exFAT--older hardware just doesn't support it. 32GB is still in the realm of FAT32.
 
OLD CF doesn't have the Write cycles to act as a long term HDD so any machine you do this too Will eventually die. There are better options.

There are SSDs available with ide interfaces. These are what I have put in systems of that vintage. I have put these in various older systems and have used modules from Zheino and KingSpec.

http://www.zheino.com/fr55__89.html

https://www.kingspec.com/product/pata-ysp600e.html

Another option is a DOM card (Disk on Module) which is common in the industrial computer and thin client space. Those came in smaller sizes at one point. Just make sure to get Vertical Aligned 44 pin DOM if you intend to mount them in a laptop.

As others have mentioned there is an IDE 8.4 Gb BIOS limit, on the drive size unless you can upgrade the BIOS, but depending on the system there are alternative/hacked BIOS images which support larger capacities.

On Desktop there are some other options. If your desktop Ethernet card supported an option ROM, you could install the expanding ROM in that spot. The limit only applies to IDE disks so on desktops my solution was to skip IDE all together and boot SCSI and then you could go any size. The Partition size was a limit of the OS but 98 supported 127 GB as a max volume size.
 
As the OP I want to point out that I was talking about buying M2 SSD's that were sold as 8GB drives, but were really 64GB in size, but configured at 8GB drives. Once one realizes that finding spinning disks in 2.5" IDE format and 8GB or smaller is a task a kin to searching for a pin in a haystack. One is then left with less bad choices in many cases. Desktops are a completely different issue since cramming a 2.5" SATA SSD (and adapter) into the space of a 3.5" drive is not often an issue. In a laptop trying to use a 2.5" SATA drive with an adapter is not often possible as space is limited and the adapter added to the drive length kills the use of the modern drive.

As such I am looking into using the M2 SSD's with adapters to use as 2.5" IDE drives in old laptops. I have also, as pointed out, in the past, used CF cards with adapters as hard drives. DOM's and M2 SSD's may be better solutions, but cost also enters into the equation too and the purchase of these M2 SSD's in my original post was solely based upon the seller selling them for well under $3.00 each. With the adapter this is under $20 for each as installed. As in my signature I have a large number of these old beasts and an not willing to put $50 or more into a solution for each one. I'm not willing to go broke buying solutions many times over unless Pentium laptops become as valuable a Apple one's overnight.

Plus It is doubtful that CF failure is going to end the use of a Pentium laptop that only used once in a blue moon with DOS or Windows 95 - Windows ME. Dead CF cards with limited life is better than a laptop with a hole where the hard drive should go. Cloning a CF before failure is not an issue. Finding CF cards cheap is an issue and China has been raising the prices on all the various adapters of late.

I use Ontrack to overlay the BIOS limits and format as many virtual disks as needed depending upon the size of the CF or other device when they are larger than 8.4GB. Or whatever size limit one of these old one beasts refuses to use out of the box with it's BIOS. This is sometimes an issue, a real issue when running into FAT16 or FAT32 limits that hang up the boot. As in one of the laptops I'm working with that will not even get through POST to allow Ontrack to do it's thing. As Chuck pointed out this is a PITA with going big where small is needed. That's when you start looking into fake CHS settings hoping to get to POST.

I wish I could help him out with some unused small CF's, but my smallest CF card is a 256MB disk for used on a CP/M 2.2 Z80 SBC.
 
OLD CF doesn't have the Write cycles to act as a long term HDD so any machine you do this too Will eventually die. There are better options.

Depends on usage. I've been running the same CF card in a DOS system that gets powered up and used every week, for 12 years -- still same CF card, no issues.

If we're talking fileservers, then sure, don't use a CF card.
 
Plus It is doubtful that CF failure is going to end the use of a Pentium laptop that only used once in a blue moon with DOS or Windows 95 - Windows ME. Dead CF cards with limited life is better than a laptop with a hole where the hard drive should go. Cloning a CF before failure is not an issue. Finding CF cards cheap is an issue and China has been raising the prices on all the various adapters of late.

FWIW, they make PATA to SD adapters in the laptop form factor and I find they work perfectly well with adequate performance for 1990’s vintage applications. They sell SD cards specifically rated for continuous write duty cycles (for video surveillance and whatnot) that only cost a couple bucks more than a “regular” quality brand. They should last years even with full time use in a 90’s laptop.
 
My apologies, I completely missed the M.2 part of that discussion. Even thought I actually have several spinny PATA laptop and desktop drives from old systems, I am in the process of imaging them onto Solid state media wherever possible which is why I suggested the zheino drives which were sub $30 when I ordered them a few years ago. Apparently they are still available from the manufacturer, but scam-azon no longer is stocking them. I generally post manufacturer links and let people source them however they want.

Also since I'm a new member my replies will be delayed for a bit still.
 
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Depends on usage. I've been running the same CF card in a DOS system that gets powered up and used every week, for 12 years -- still same CF card, no issues.

If we're talking fileservers, then sure, don't use a CF card.
Same here--I've got some old industrial Hitachi 192MB CF cards installed in systems here. No problems after about 15 years. What matters to a great degree is not only the CF internal firmware for "write leveling" but also the type of technology used to implement it. For example, SLC memory usually has a very high write-cycle endurance; MLC, TLC and QLC have perhaps 1/10 of that; SLC also has lower capacity and is more expensive per bit.

3D flash has gone nuts--I was reading today about Micron's new 232(!) layer technology.
 
Just purchased a few 32mb cards, off ebay. Work ok so far for XT-IDE... The pulldown menu lists 32mb, and was indeed what I received.
32 millibits? Not really a useful amount of memory.
 
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