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Commadore 3040 drive issues

Great advice thanks Hugo! Didn't realise fixing Pets was so covert. Caught the neighbour looking in so have drawn the curtains 👍🏻. Will hopefully have a pettester this week so will update you!
 
The EDIT ROM (which will probably be an EPROM) is at location UD7. Are you happy with identifying parts using this nomenclature?

Yes, you can't be too careful in Cheltenham with the UFO down the road...

Dave
 
Hi all, so the pettester arrived! Thanks to Colin, put into UD7 and the results are attached. I'll review the manual, but if anything is immediately obvious thanks!
 

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Ok so it's failing on test 2 - page 0/1 test. Both page 0 and page 1 have errors, hence catastrophic failure. I would guess these pages are held in UA11. 🤔
 
My PETTESTER writes the values from $00 to $FF into memory from $0000 to $01FF. Address $0000 has the value $00, address $0001 has the value $01, ... , address $00FF has the value $FF.

Looking at the initial displays I see 16g characters (corresponding to the addresses $0000 to $000F) followed by 16b characters (corresponding to addresses $0010 to $001F). There are then various ranges of 'g' and 'b' characters in blocks as the addresses increase. Interestingly, the 16b addresses ($0010 to $001F) contain the data values $00 to $0F (i.e. data bit D4 has 'flipped' from a '1' to a '0').

Each of the DRAM devices hold 1 'bit' of the data value. UA11 is the lower bank of 16K (addresses from $0000 to $3FFF) and data bit D4.

On an 8032, the DRAM data lines are directly connected to the CPU data lines (and not via data bus buffers).

There is not a 'nice and consistent' pattern of 16g followed by 16b memory locations - so data bit D4 is not PERMANENTLY stuck at 0:

16g, 16b, 16g, 14b, 18g, 16b, 14g, ...

I would start by replacing UA11...

See schematic: http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/pet/8032/8032029-05.gif.

If you don't want to do that for now, there is another way of proceeding by swapping the two banks of 16K RAM over and trying the higher bank of DRAM in the lower addresses. I can let you know how to do this if you want to go this way first.

Dave
 
Great info Dave thanks!!

So yes I would love to learn how to swap the banks.
Also on changing UA11 what's the best practice? Cut the legs, or desolder gauze?
Finally do I buy a standard 4116 ram chip from eBay or something more specialised?

Thanks Andrew
 
I would cut the legs and then desolder carefully. Replace with a good quality IC socket. This will protect the PCB.

What is currently fitted to UA11? Can you take a photograph of the markings on the top of the IC please.

I would be hesitant to purchase from eBay. There are plenty of 'safer' suppliers out there. Let's see what you have fitted first...

To swap the 16K banks over look at schematic: http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/pet/8032/8032029-06.gif.

You will see two (2) resistors R10 and R11:

1686928915277.png
Identify the location of the two resistors R10 and R11 on the board. One end of each should be connected to UD5/8 and UD5/11 respectively.

Disconnect (desolder and gently lift) one leg of each of R10 and R11 (I would suggest the ends connecting R10 to UD5/8 and R11 to UD5/11). Then use two small pieces of wire to temporarily connect each resistor to the opposite resistor's PCB track - so that (for example) UD5/11 drives R10 and UD5/8 drives R11.

Then check again and see what happens.

Dave
 
Great thanks, image attached. They are HM4716AP-4N chips. Hopefully my soldering skills won't fail me!
 

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Hi Dave,
So I get this right I swap the attached to the alternate tracks to achieve this?
Thanks Andrew
 

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That is correct.

If it is easier to desolder and swap over the right-hand side legs of the resistors (as indicated in your photograph) do that instead.

Dave
 
Great info Dave thanks!!

So yes I would love to learn how to swap the banks.
Also on changing UA11 what's the best practice? Cut the legs, or desolder gauze?
Finally do I buy a standard 4116 ram chip from eBay or something more specialised?

Thanks Andrew
De-solder wick or gauze is not too helpful clearing the plated through holes, sometimes it will, other times not.

The board has two sides, the component side and solder side:

Once the IC pins are cut close to the IC body and the body removed, you can heat the solder side of the pcb and the pin/pad, make sure to wait until the solder is fully melted and withdraw the pin from the hole on the component side of the board. To do this and have access to both sides of the board simultaneously, it is often easier to position the board vertically. Don't pull on the pin while the solder is partially heated or you will likely rip pads/tracks off the pcb. Heat & force can cause the pads & tracks to separate from the pcb.

(some people attempt removal of the IC pin from the component side of the pcb only by heating the pin and pad there, it can work, but sometimes at the factory the original solder did not flow fully down the the hole and onto the top pad on the component side. If this is the case it can be hard to transfer heat down the hole, especially with aged pcb's where the surface has oxidized, so it is always better to apply the soldering iron to the pcb solder side not the component side)

If the solder is heavily oxidized and grey looking, you can add fresh solder first.

Then after the pin is removed, add some fresh solder to the pad and hole on the solder side of the board, the fresh flux helps solder removal by the sucker.

A single shot hand held solder sucker is fine, melt the solder on the pad and hole (on the solder side) and quickly place the nozzle over the pad and deploy the sucker. If the hole does not clear, add fresh solder and repeat. Then clean up the residual flux with a cue stick and some IPA or similar pcb cleaner. Inspect everything very carefully before you solder in the IC socket. I would recommend a dual wipe socket, they are easier to remove if damaged than a machined pin type and their pins can also be removed one by one if required unlike a machine pin type. The machine pin type are much more difficult to de-solder.

and it pays to use good quality Ersin Multicore or Loctite (in the USA) 5 flux core 60/40 Tin Lead solder . There are a lot of cheap and nasty solder products out there which have poor fluxes in them. Don't use Lead free solder.

Also, you could consider getting a 4116 DRAM tester. I have tried some, one did not work properly and reported chips were defective when they were not. However, one type I bought was very good and accurately reported all chips:


Most of the ebay 4116's I have bought are fine, TI, Motorola, Siemens brands etc.
 
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Hi all, sorry for the loooong delay. Been waiting for parts. So here's the news! I ordered some 4116 memory which arrived. I read somewhere you could 'piggyback' defective ram. So I went ahead for UA11. Amazingly the pettester passed and ran a good number of clean memory checks!!! I then put the original ROM back and the machine starts as expected!! Not a permanent solution but good enough for me, thanks everyone for the help much appreciated 👍🏻
 

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You obviously tossed a coin at it came up heads!

I would still replace that defective device now you know it is faulty. These devices could become defective further to the point where the piggyback fails. I suppose you could replace it then...

Dave
 
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