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DEC 4000/500 with no Operating System

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Pile-o-stone

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Jun 15, 2021
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Hi, I'm picking up a DEC 4000/500 this weekend. It's a bit of a compulsive purchase as I don't know anything about DEC VAX, but after a lot of googling I'm a little more knowledgeable. I'm enjoying doing the research and I'm excited to be linking some of my other vintage computers to the VAX (step one is connecting my Tandy 102 as a terminal). The issue I have is that the VAX does not come with an operating system. I was looking at installing NetBSD as I have some experience with unix/linux but I'm at a loss to know how to actually load the operating system onto the VAX. The VAX has no CD Rom, Floppy Drives or Tape Drives to be able to load software onto it. Does anyone here have any ideas? I'm happy to buy extra kit (SCSI CD ROM?) if necessary but I don't know what is compatible with this particular computer. I have a background in PCs which is not much use in this case, but I'm happy to learn. This is really the point in getting the VAX, to have a good tinker and learn something new (well, something old, but new to me at least!), so any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
Where are you in the world ?

I have a VAXstation 4000/90 with VMS with a SCSI tape drive with a backup on it but only really useful if local to Lancaster UK :)

(always assuming it still works of course)
 
These usually come in a BA400 enclosure that may contain some DSSI disks and a TQK70 tape drive. Can you post some photos of the inside front so we can see what controllers it has and if it has any storage?
 
Gary C said:
Where are you in the world ?

I have a VAXstation 4000/90 with VMS with a SCSI tape drive with a backup on it but only really useful if local to Lancaster UK :)

(always assuming it still works of course)
Click to expand...
I'm in Rochdale area, so not far from Leigh at all! :)
 
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Yes its me again. OK the if its a 4000/500 I think you are pretty much stuck with VMS as that has DSSI disks (Its like SCSI but DEC specific) and from a briefs scan of the FAQs NETBSD does not appear support the DSSI controller in the bigger VAX/4000. (I may be wrong)


so the simplest way is to then build VMS on SIMH and netboot the VAX from SIMH...
.... process for VMS on SIMH is here:-


except you can no longer get licences from HP. and info on netbooting VMS is here:-


but I think the relevant info is :-

It comes down to this:
- get simh up and running. One thing to remember, when the VMS install procedure asks whether this node will be part of a cluster, answer Yes and specify that it will serve disks.
- run @CLUSTER_CONFIG on the simulated VAX You must have the MAC address of the DELQA (08-00-2b-mumble) ready.
- boot the mVAX II over ethernet

you can find VMS media images here

CD Image Archive - VaxHaven

www.vaxhaven.com www.vaxhaven.com
 
OK and if you want to run NET BSD I think your best bet is an Emulex UC07 but the prices have got eye watering. e.g.

www.ebay.com

Emulex UC07 QBUS SCSI Adapter UC0710205-02 - Lot of 2 | eBay

This SCSI QBUS card has it's firmware updated to the latest version ("R") and has been tested. VAX 6000, VAX-11/730. ABOUT KEYWAYS.
www.ebay.com

which is for two so you could ask the price for one .....
... the cheap DEC controllers only support tapes....
 
thephysicist said:
maybe scsi2sd would work? see scsi2sd on dec 3100 how I did it on a 3100.
Click to expand...
no scsi on a 4000/500 as standard. If they have SCSI usually its usually a KZQSA which was not designed support disks. I can't figure out if netbsd (or any other BSD) supports this card for hard disk. I have used such a card in my 4000-300 (I think its a 300) to load stuff from CD.
 
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PG31 said:
These usually come in a BA400 enclosure that may contain some DSSI disks and a TQK70 tape drive. Can you post some photos of the inside front so we can see what controllers it has and if it has any storage?
Click to expand...
Here is a photo of the inside of the VAX
 

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g4ugm said:
Yes its me again. OK the if its a 4000/500 I think you are pretty much stuck with VMS as that has DSSI disks (Its like SCSI but DEC specific) and from a briefs scan of the FAQs NETBSD does not appear support the DSSI controller in the bigger VAX/4000. (I may be wrong)


so the simplest way is to then build VMS on SIMH and netboot the VAX from SIMH...
.... process for VMS on SIMH is here:-


except you can no longer get licences from HP. and info on netbooting VMS is here:-


but I think the relevant info is :-

It comes down to this:
- get simh up and running. One thing to remember, when the VMS install procedure asks whether this node will be part of a cluster, answer Yes and specify that it will serve disks.
- run @CLUSTER_CONFIG on the simulated VAX You must have the MAC address of the DELQA (08-00-2b-mumble) ready.
- boot the mVAX II over ethernet

you can find VMS media images here

CD Image Archive - VaxHaven

www.vaxhaven.com www.vaxhaven.com
Click to expand...

Thanks for the Information. I'm fine with VMS if that is all I can get onto the VAX, it'll just mean a slightly bigger learning curve as I had a small grasp of Unix/Linux but no knowledge at all of VMS. It's all a voyage of discovery anyway, so I'm not too disheartened. At this point, just getting a working OS will be fantastic.
 
g4ugm said:
OK and if you want to run NET BSD I think your best bet is an Emulex UC07 but the prices have got eye watering. e.g.

www.ebay.com

Emulex UC07 QBUS SCSI Adapter UC0710205-02 - Lot of 2 | eBay

This SCSI QBUS card has it's firmware updated to the latest version ("R") and has been tested. VAX 6000, VAX-11/730. ABOUT KEYWAYS.
www.ebay.com

which is for two so you could ask the price for one .....
... the cheap DEC controllers only support tapes....
Click to expand...
I had a look at the board, it seems to be 'half height" compared with the other boards, such as the the SCSI controller board (KZQSA-SA) I pasted in below. Will the Emulex board work in my VAX and how does it fit in securely?
 

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Looks like you have two DSSI disks there, so the easiest is probably to netboot (as mentioned above), copy the installation media to one of the disks, and then install locally on the other disk. The other option you can look into if you want to use SCSI is to get an HSD05 or HSD10, which are DSSI -> SCSI adapters. They sometimes pop up here and there. You will also need DSSI cables if you go that route.

If you want a SCSI QBus card, a dual height card will fit fine, but you need to look for an S Box version that includes the bulkhead. Like this CQD model (there are others):
 
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Looks like it powers on, so that is the first good step.

Looks like there is a cable plugged into the console MMJ port. What is on the other end of that cable?

If you're lucky there is an adapter such as an H8575-A on the other end so you can attach a serial terminal for the console connection.

https://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/cable/dec-mmj

If you can get a console connection, does the system pass the CPU and memory power up self tests?

If you get that far, some interesting things to check at the console prompt:

>>>show mem
>>>show dev
>>>show qbus
>>>show dssi

If the DSSI drives (e.g. RF72, RF73, or RF74) are still there, you can connect to the drive firmware through the console and run further tests on the drives.

http://manx-docs.org/collections/mds-199909/cd3/disk/rf72dug8.pdf

If everything is all good so far, get an AUI MAU to connect the system to a local network, and then set up an InfoServer in SIMH, attach a VMS 7.3 install CD image to that InfoServer, and then you can boot the VAX across the network from the VMS 7.3 install CD on the SIMH InfoServer, and install VMS on the DSSI disks that way.

https://www.9track.net/simh/infoserver
 
Pile-o-stone said:
I had a look at the board, it seems to be 'half height" compared with the other boards, such as the the SCSI controller board (KZQSA-SA) I pasted in below. Will the Emulex board work in my VAX and how does it fit in securely?
Click to expand...
You can get a half card adaptor. The KZQSA is only meant to be used for tape and CD but some have reported success with other devices. Looks like you have some sort of extra card in there. Whats the label on the silver cover? I can possible copy an install set to a DSSI disk as it appears you are not far away.
 
I just picked up the VAX and somehow carried up two flights of stairs to my computer centre (aka spare bedroom). I didn’t have a mains power cable so I’ve ordered on from Amazon (right-handed so it fits nicely). The Amazon plug comes with a 13a fuse and I thought I’d better check the VAX rating but can’t seem to find any reference to what the fuse rating should be (I guess DEC would supply the mains cable with the correct fuse, so didn’t list it in the technical reference manual. Does anyone have any idea what fuse I should use?
 
Pile-o-stone said:
I just picked up the VAX and somehow carried up two flights of stairs to my computer centre (aka spare bedroom). I didn’t have a mains power cable so I’ve ordered on from Amazon (right-handed so it fits nicely). The Amazon plug comes with a 13a fuse and I thought I’d better check the VAX rating but can’t seem to find any reference to what the fuse rating should be (I guess DEC would supply the mains cable with the correct fuse, so didn’t list it in the technical reference manual. Does anyone have any idea what fuse I should use?
Click to expand...
The fuse is only to protect the cable. If the lead comes with 13amp that is fine. In fact you probably need 13amp. The PSU in the BA440 is usually rated 1.2kw and whilst that is only around 5amp the in rush current will be more so 13 amp is appropriate.
 
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