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Dual Pentium III

Anyone know of other PCI-X or PCI Only Video Cards that would be better than the onboard VGA?
 
Yeah like a ton of them. Depends on what you're after, just getting a video out or some performance.
 
PCI-X would be a no go. I have a dual head FX 5200 PCI card that should work in Windows 98 to XP that should be easy to find. There are also Geforce 6200 PCI cards.
 
Okay, 6200 PCI it is, found one supposedly in box new. Going to try large SD card one more time. Files copied to partitions this time.
 
I just installed a NIB GeForce 6200 PCI card into an industrial Pentium 4 system; the industrial PICMIG SBC (an IEI ROCKY-6614 SiS 661 system, also NIB) with 2GB of RAM took fifteen minutes to boot while Windows 7 tried to work around the AGP GART (no drivers really exist for this chipset for Windows 7, 32 or 64 but, there's some Vista drivers, but...installing not fully baked drivers on an industrial system....hard nope there); yeah, fifteen minutes staring at the Windows startup screen with the throbbing Microsoft Windows flag/logo); installing the 6200 Just Worked (TM) and Windows takes about thirty seconds to start up. (Long story short: previous ROCKY-6614 board blew the chipset's regulator caps, all of them, and shotgunning the caps did NOT fix it; bought a new in box board and loaded it with the max RAM, using the existing disk with Windows 7 already on it.)

Graphics performance with Aero effects is decent; the 6200 is at the low end of the supported GPUs for Aero. I've had good results with the 6200s over the years on PCI systems.
 
EverStaR said:
MOBO drivers are an issue though.
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… This is a ServerWorks chipset board, isn’t it?

I suppose this is so obvious it’s not really worth saying, but those boards just plain are not for Windows 9x. It doesn’t surprise me at all you’re having weird issues. Those things were for servers only (it’s in the name) and the NT-based versions of Windows were the target audience. Also, gotta say, my memory of those boards is the IDE implementation just plain sucks; it’s good enough to run a CD-ROM drive to install your OS off of, but every board with this chipset I ever used had a SCSI controller on it, and that’s what they expected you to use.(*)

(* Mostly I experienced this chipset in the form of proprietary rack servers like the Dell PowerEdge 2550 and 1650, in which the *only thing attached* to the IDE circuitry was the laptop-size CD-ROM, but we had a number of parts-built servers as well. I don’t remember the exact motherboard, but it had the same ServerSet III chipset as this board, but also had an adaptec UltraSCSI port built it. Which… we still mostly didn’t use, because we’d bought caching PCI-X SCSI cards which were basically the same as the ones built into the Dells. There was once, however, a “special project” I had to put together that needed a bunch of cheap bulk storage, so I hung some PATA drives off the IDE ports. It worked, but… not well.)

I kind of have to be blunt; despite the fact that this has the “fastest” Pentium III CPUs you can get if an early 2000’s SMP *gaming* experience is a thing you want to recreate I think you’d probably have more fun with a Coppermine board fitted with an AGP chipset. The 440BX was getting long in the tooth by the turn of the century, but it could still show you a good time under both Win98 and 2000, with zero driver issues. (It even has good ISA support if you want to slum it in DOS.)
 
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Messed with an idea to try building a main PC around a passe-generation server that I could get from workplace back then.
Around years of ProLiant G5, could take G4 DL380, or equivalent Poweredge.

Didn't. Too big, too noisy, too slow to boot (POST and ROMs taking time), too much power consumption, dedicated power supplies, ECC RAM, SAS storage. And my main thing wasn't gaming either, but do what I do for work which is a dev.workstation/test server type of load, and music with DAW. Everything could run OK on Linux, but simply too much hassle and too much hardware.

Soon enough I got myself a Q6600 and soon after I got a first SSD. For all intents and purposes I did this system was far more convenient than any kind of server.
Didn't even envision 'gaming' on that server, didn't care for it much, but if it were the factor, I would drop the server option even before.

Btw. for these kinds of things Supermicro is your friend. They've been building ATX motherboards for Intel server processor for ages containing 'consumer' hardware, normal IDE controller, usual slots, so on.
 
Eudimorphodon said:
… This is a ServerWorks chipset board, isn’t it?

I suppose this is so obvious it’s not really worth saying, but those boards just plain are not for Windows 9x. It doesn’t surprise me at all you’re having weird issues. Those things were for servers only (it’s in the name) and the NT-based versions of Windows were the target audience. Also, gotta say, my memory of those boards is the IDE implementation just plain sucks; it’s good enough to run a CD-ROM drive to install your OS off of, but every board with this chipset I ever used had a SCSI controller on it, and that’s what they expected you to use.(*)

(* Mostly I experienced this chipset in the form of proprietary rack servers like the Dell PowerEdge 2550 and 1650, in which the *only thing attached* to the IDE circuitry was the laptop-size CD-ROM, but we had a number of parts-built servers as well. I don’t remember the exact motherboard, but it had the same ServerSet III chipset as this board, but also had an adaptec UltraSCSI port built it. Which… we still mostly didn’t use, because we’d bought caching PCI-X SCSI cards which were basically the same as the ones built into the Dells. There was once, however, a “special project” I had to put together that needed a bunch of cheap bulk storage, so I hung some PATA drives off the IDE ports. It worked, but… not well.)

I kind of have to be blunt; despite the fact that this has the “fastest” Pentium III CPUs you can get if an early 2000’s SMP *gaming* experience is a thing you want to recreate I think you’d probably have more fun with a Coppermine board fitted with an AGP chipset. The 440BX was getting long in the tooth by the turn of the century, but it could still show you a good time under both Win98 and 2000, with zero driver issues. (It even has good ISA support if you want to slum it in DOS.)
Click to expand...

I actually have 98 running very nicely now. It just took some work to find compatible intel drivers. But I agree, it was never meant to run 98, its all part of the sick fun of revisiting the past and trying to cobble it all together, and yes, make things do some things they were never meant to do. I rounded up all the drivers I could and copied to the empty partition and installed from there and the install ran much more smoothly.

Cheers!
E
 
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EverStaR said:
its all part of the sick fun of revisiting the past and trying to cobble it all together, and yes, make things do some things they were never meant to do
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Sure, whatever floats your boat. ;)

That said, though, I'm not sure this is really "revisiting the past", because in real life a gamer *never* would have bought a board like this, and for good reason. These serverworks chipsets had some performance-related good points, mostly related to sheer memory bandwidth (I think some of these supported 4-way interleave?), and of course if you stuffed a thousand dollar hardware RAID controller into one of those PCI-X slots you could SQL the pants off a mere "proconsumer-grade" PC, but as soon as you're looking at anything where video card performance (and compatibility) matters a Via Apollo Pro 266T board would be a crushingly better choice.

(You might want to look for a 266T board, honestly. At least some of them were Tulatin compatible, and you'll get an AGP Pro slot in the deal.)
 
Eudimorphodon said:
Sure, whatever floats your boat. ;)

That said, though, I'm not sure this is really "revisiting the past", because in real life a gamer *never* would have bought a board like this, and for good reason. These serverworks chipsets had some performance-related good points, mostly related to sheer memory bandwidth (I think some of these supported 4-way interleave?), and of course if you stuffed a thousand dollar hardware RAID controller into one of those PCI-X slots you could SQL the pants off a mere "proconsumer-grade" PC, but as soon as you're looking at anything where video card performance (and compatibility) matters a Via Apollo Pro 266T board would be a crushingly better choice.

(You might want to look for a 266T board, honestly. At least some of them were Tulatin compatible, and you'll get an AGP Pro slot in the deal.)
Click to expand...
Ahhh, see, that's where you missed the conversation, I am not a real life gamer! Never claimed that here or anywhere else and never have aspired to be one. Never claimed to be a CPU guru, server guru, very comfortable being plain Ole me!
 
EverStaR said:
Ahhh, see, that's where you missed the conversation, I am not a real life gamer! Never claimed that here or anywhere else and never have aspired to be one. Never claimed to be a CPU guru, server guru, very comfortable being plain Ole me!
Click to expand...

... you at one point listed out your intention to have like four different sound cards installed in this thing, some of them specifically for "DOS gaming"? Sorry, not buying it. ;)

I mean, again, don't let me rain on your parade, you've got the stuff, have fun playing with it. It's just... these ServerWorks boards were built to power the computational equivalents of dump trucks, not street racers. If you've seen one of those incredibly stupid "pickup trucks" where someone takes a Ford F-650 Super Duty chassis meant for a 24 foot box truck or whatever and cuts it down to take a standard F150 bed (perched way too high in the air to actually get anything into) on the back, well, that's kind of what we're looking at here. Except I imagine those mutant pickup trucks are at least more fun to drive than normal size ones (until you need to park it) because they're obviously a gonzo joke. If you don't know what's in the box (and therefore why it's supposedly special) a ServerWorks-based Windows 98 machine is just going to inspire the question "Uhm, what's wrong with it?" for anyone stuck behind the wheel.
 
Eudimorphodon said:
... you at one point listed out your intention to have like four different sound cards installed in this thing, some of them specifically for "DOS gaming"? Sorry, not buying it. ;)
Click to expand...
Not this machine, that's a 486 build I am working on, and that's not really for gaming
Eudimorphodon said:
I mean, again, don't let me rain on your parade, you've got the stuff, have fun playing with it. It's just... these ServerWorks boards were built to power the computational equivalents of dump trucks, not street racers. If you've seen one of those incredibly stupid "pickup trucks" where someone takes a Ford F-650 Super Duty chassis meant for a 24 foot box truck or whatever and cuts it down to take a standard F150 bed (perched way too high in the air to actually get anything into) on the back, well, that's kind of what we're looking at here. Except I imagine those mutant pickup trucks are at least more fun to drive than normal size ones (until you need to park it) because they're obviously a gonzo joke. If you don't know what's in the box (and therefore why it's supposedly special) a ServerWorks-based Windows 98 machine is just going to inspire the question "Uhm, what's wrong with it?" for anyone stuck behind the wheel.
Click to expand...

You could never rain on my parade, I think I might be raining on yours, not a gaming guy, not putting 4 sound cards in this machine, oh my! Not using this machine like you think, the list goes on. This is what happens when you suppose things don't you think?
 
EverStaR said:
You could never rain on my parade, I think I might be raining on yours, not a gaming guy, not putting 4 sound cards in this machine, oh my! Not using this machine like you think, the list goes on. This is what happens when you suppose things don't you think?
Click to expand...

Uhm, dude, here's your post.

EverStaR said:
Here are what I aim to be the final specs;
  • Intel SAI2 A66889-201 MB
  • 2 Pentium III Tualatin 1.266GHz
  • 3GB RAM
  • HL Data Storage DVD Writable CD-RW Drive GWA-4082B 678-0489B Sept 2004 4082A *
  • 512GB CF to IDE Card for the HD *
  • Startec Multicard Reder
  • Gotek OLD Model: SFR1M44-U100LQD-435
  • MATROX Parhelia 256MB PCI-X PCI Video Graphics Card MGI PH-P256PDIF
  • Diamond Stealth 64 Video PCI S3 Vision968 PCI Video Card - Dos Gaming Compatibility *
  • Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme SB0790 7.1 PCI Sound Card - sound card for DOS Gaming Compatibility *
  • YAMAHA XWAVE XG YMF754-R (LWHA301J8) - unique sound card for DOS Gaming Compatibility
  • DreamBlaster X16GS Advanced WaveTable Card with licensed soundfonts.
  • Thermaltake Smart 500W 80+ White Certified PSU *
  • Cooler Master N400 NSE-400-KKN2 Mid-Tower Fully Meshed Front Panel Computer Case (Midnight Black)
  • DOS 6.22, Windows NT, 2K Pro & XP Pro
Click to expand...

Are these three items on this list not sound cards (or related devices)?
  • Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme SB0790 7.1 PCI Sound Card - sound card for DOS Gaming Compatibility *
  • YAMAHA XWAVE XG YMF754-R (LWHA301J8) - unique sound card for DOS Gaming Compatibility
  • DreamBlaster X16GS Advanced WaveTable Card with licensed soundfonts.
PLUS, in a quote from the post immediately preceding this one:

EverStaR said:
Even with just one P3 CPU running for gaming it will still perform and sounds good and represent one of the faster P3's. It leaves a few slots to play with, like maybe adding an older more compatible VGA card for older DOS games and maybe a SB card along with it. I saw a video where a Vodoo 3 PCI card exists and the games ran very nicely. All that and I can still play around with the multi-cpu OS's and see what kind of tricks I can get it to perform. Each OS can use the cards as it pleases and DOS can use either or both sound cards and the daughterboard enhanced sound.
Click to expand...

You are focusing here entirely on games and, again, going on about all the multifarious sound options you're intending to pile on this thing. I just scrolled through this thread again from this post forward looking for the place where you clearly said you've abandoned this plan, so... not quite sure where you come up with this accusation that I'm "supposing" things. You are technically right, though, I shouldn't have said "four". There's only three. GOTCHYA, huh?

(But you did put two separate video cards on the list, with one of them specifically intended to somehow be better for "Dos Gaming Compatibility"... So, yeah, this accusation you're chucking at me that I'm somehow wrong in thinking you've had gaming as THE baseline activity for this build seems pretty rich.)
 
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... Anyway, whatever, I'll stop opining. Although, honestly, was just trying to help in pointing out that there *are* at least a few Tulatin-rated dual socket boards out there that don't completely and utterly suck at doing "fun stuff". You know, if you happened to be crawling eBay or whatever. Generally speaking I'm not a huge fan of the VIA Apollo Pro Pentium III chipsets, but they're awesome compared to ServerWorks unless you really need 4GB of RAM and a PCI-X hardware RAID.... for your Windows 2000 Exchange and Active Directory servers.
 
I have a few dual P3 Serverworks boards that take Tulatin CPUs but no AGP. They are good for what they were intended for which is servers.
 
Eudimorphodon said:
Uhm, dude, here's your post.



Are these three items on this list not sound cards (or related devices)?
  • Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme SB0790 7.1 PCI Sound Card - sound card for DOS Gaming Compatibility *
  • YAMAHA XWAVE XG YMF754-R (LWHA301J8) - unique sound card for DOS Gaming Compatibility
  • DreamBlaster X16GS Advanced WaveTable Card with licensed soundfonts.
PLUS, in a quote from the post immediately preceding this one:



You are focusing here entirely on games and, again, going on about all the multifarious sound options you're intending to pile on this thing. I just scrolled through this thread again from this post forward looking for the place where you clearly said you've abandoned this plan, so... not quite sure where you come up with this accusation that I'm "supposing" things. You are technically right, though, I shouldn't have said "four". There's only three. GOTCHYA, huh?

(But you did put two separate video cards on the list, with one of them specifically intended to somehow be better for "Dos Gaming Compatibility"... So, yeah, this accusation you're chucking at me that I'm somehow wrong in thinking you've had gaming as THE baseline activity for this build seems pretty rich.)
Click to expand...
You do know a dreamblaster is a daughterboard correct, not a full sound card? 2 sound cards, not 4. Additional says faster machines, not Gaming. And playing a dos game, doesn't make a person a gamer. Did you see the part about multi OS's. I can see you need to be right here, man, don't make stuff up, no need to selectively quote either, it's not cool. Honestly, I don't think you have done much other than pull this thread off topic numerous times. Please feel free to not participate in my threads in the future. You have constantly cut people down who have actually tried to be helpful and not offered anything valuable related to this thread. Hopefully there is a mute option here, please use it on me if so, I just used it on you. Bye!
 
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Uh oh Everstar calm down a bit.
I also gathered from your posts your machines are mostly about running games. Aren't you mostly interested in graphics cards and sound cards?

Having no idea what to do with some configuration is perfectly fine(*), but if you ask for help or discussion, people want to know the context.

*we're all here for fun and not productivity
 
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