• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Help with getting dos on a cf card with a modern pc

A

abruno17

Experienced Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
188
Location
4104 Longworth Loop Kissimme, FL 34744
Okay I might sound like an idiot here, but I am stumped. I have the XT IDE for a Tandy 1400LT and I would like to install PC DOS 3.2 (Yes, the IBM version. I just want to use the IBM version for s and g's) What is the easiest way to set up my CF card. I have the program Win-Image but is that going to work? I also have DOSBox just in case. I have a 16 gb card. I know that is probably overkill but it's what I have lying around. So, if any of you can explain it to me that would be extremely helpful and hopefully when I get back to you, I'll have everything all setup and I get back to using my 1400LT without having to swap disks. You see my main reason for wanting to get this hard card up and running is because I want to install desk mate on it as well and the only way I can do that is by spreading it over 3 floppies and it would be so much easier if I had it there on the cf card. Also, I plan on using my 1400LT as a "writing device" and I would like to run Word Perfect or Microsoft Word 1.0 without spreading it over multiple floppies. That way I could safe my writing files to a floppy and hopefully send the files to my modern computer and edit them in a more modern version of Word. Anyway, that's my long ramble over. Any help is appreciated. Thank you!
 
It's easiest if you can boot from floppy on the machine in question and at least partition, format and run sys on it there. Then you can bring the CF card over to your (presumably Windows) PC and copy whatever you want on it.

Getting the geometry right can be a PITA without using the actual XT IDE to partition the compact flash card. I use Linux as my desktop and tried to automate a "toolchain" to build out CF cards, but I already knew the CHS as seen by an XT IDE of the cards I wanted to use. Even so, actually making them bootable has eluded me and I eventually broke down and used qemu with a boot image to format it.

Long story short: boot from floppy on your Tandy to prep the CF card for boot, and copy over whatever files you need at your leisure on a modern computer.
 
I am trying the same thing, but I have no boot floppy. I have been trying all afternoon using Virtual box and various pc-dos images 1.? 2.2 3.3. Even tried freedom. I'm close and even got to the screen showing booting from C but it then hangs.

It's not easy though. I kept running into issues with not being able to format a created partition, different errors and I think I was confusing myself with easels partition manager, disk management and disk part. The idea though is to create a vm with an unpartitioned disk. It was complicated and I'm tired.

Apparently one issue is to do with how manufacturers put a "secret" table at start of disk (no idea what it is technically). I tried to "wipe" the cf card to remove it...and now I'm going to watch mindless TV:)

I look forward to seeing if we can find a way forward.

Oh I'm using a bare ibm 5150. I have different CF cards from 8MB to 256MB, I'm trying to keep the size of a partition down to about 10MB as that was the size of the first hard disk I ever used in 1984 (I think?)
 
gfmoore said:
I am trying the same thing, but I have no boot floppy.
Click to expand...
gfmoore said:
I look forward to seeing if we can find a way forward.
Click to expand...
There is one way that will definitely work, assuming fully functional hardware:

Step 1: Get yourself a DOS boot floppy/diskette. Perhaps create a thread in the 'wanted' section of these forums. On that boot floppy/diskette, have the FDISK.COM and FORMAT.COM programs.
Step 2: Wipe the 8MB CF card, or just the card's first sector, to eliminate the possibility of the first problem listed at [here]. On what machine you do that is irrelevant.
Step 3: IBM 5150 - Boot from the floppy/diskette then perform the actions shown at [here].

Regarding step 1, another option that may be available to you is described at [here].
 
Regarding step 1, another option that may be available to you is described at [here]

This is exactly how I ended up being successful with getting CF cards working on my 5150, after weeks of frustration. I got a period-correct 720k drive to (temporarily) install in my 5150, and another 720k-capable USB drive. This allows me to place 720k DOS bootable images on a floppy from my modern system or use VirtualDisk to create partial/custom bootable disks. I’ll boot on the 5150 and create a CF as needed.
Once a CF is built enough to boot from, I can then insert it into a CF reader on a modern PC and copy whatever is needed. I now have a stack of CF cards with various DOS versions and sizes for various purposes.
 
Oh goodness your 3 1/2 diskette suggestion worked!!!!! I didn't think I even had any 720k boot disks but found some dos 5.0 install ones. The actual install didn't work, but there was enough of the unexpanded files, fdisk and format to get up and running once I'd crashed out of setup. I had to figure out how to expand sys.co_ and then I could transfer the OS and then had to fdisk /mbr and man it worked. I thought I was stuffed as it wanted the disk 1, but that was because setup.exe was in the autoexec.bat and was trying to run setup again. I can't believe it. I now need to remember how to edit files with edlin ;)

I was also able to affirm that my 5 1/4 drive was actually working, but not booting from the disk, firther investigation needed, but I'm so happy. Thankyou thankyou...:biggrin:

I still wish there was a way to create a bootable cf disk from windows, but hey I don't care at the moment.

Gordon
 
gfmoore said:
I was also able to affirm that my 5 1/4 drive was actually working, but not booting from the disk, firther investigation needed
Click to expand...
As one possibility, be aware of the 'Deteriorated lubrication' section of [here].

gfmoore said:
I still wish there was a way to create a bootable cf disk from windows, but hey I don't care at the moment.
Click to expand...
Sometimes, the problem will be that the 'system' that the creation is done on, uses different sector translation than is used by the target system. That is why doing the creation on the actual target system always works.

Something that might be playing a part is the version of XTIDE Universal BIOS (a.k.a. XUB) on your XT-IDE card. Some recently-constructed cards are still being sold with a 2013 dated version on it. If your card has a quite-old version of the XUB, you should upgrade XUB to the latest version. You may need to redo the FDISK/FORMAT operations after that if your present XUB version is early enough (mentioned at [here]). After that, you may discover that your "create a bootable cf disk from windows" process works.
 
gfmoore said:
Yep using the latest version from the https://wiki.noami.us/index.php/File:Ide_xt_orig.bin website :)
Click to expand...
I just had a quick look at the 'noami' page you linked to, I see a very old version of the XUB dated 2013 and a newer version dated 2021-12-16 ( R622 ). The newer version is not the latest, It's a few revisions behind, The latest is now at R625 dated 2023-02-19

Modem7 has the latest R625 Preconfigured ROM image for Sergey's XT-CF-Lite V4.1 on his website https://minuszerodegrees.net/xtide/variations/Sergey's XT-CF-Lite V4.1.htm

Incase you are not aware the Official XUB website is https://xtideuniversalbios.org/ and the Official Pre-built binaries download center is linked to on that page
 
gfmoore said:
I still wish there was a way to create a bootable cf disk from windows, but hey I don't care at the moment.
Click to expand...
There is but it depends on the hardware / Software / OS you use, The easiest way is in Modem7's post #6
 
With regards to XUB, thanks for that info. Since its currently working, I might just leave as is till I get the need or urge. Lol

A gotcha I came across in trying to create 720k 3.5 inch floppies is that my external USB drive won't format these, only 1.44. Apparently not many do format 720k nowadays.

I think I've sourced one off ebay. On reflection, I wondered if I actually needed one since I now have a 3.5 drive on my 5150pc - der... ;)

I'm getting too old.

Thanks all.
Gordon
 
gfmoore said:
A gotcha I came across in trying to create 720k 3.5 inch floppies is that my external USB drive won't format these, only 1.44. Apparently not many do format 720k nowadays.
Click to expand...
Yes I've had some garbage USB floppy drives over the years, Not working with 720k floppies, The one i have now is a Dell branded, Model No. FD-05PUB TEAC drive and i have had no problems with it, Modem7 has a few other's listed on his website: https://minuszerodegrees.net/transfer/35_inch/usb_floppy_35.htm
 
gfmoore said:
With regards to XUB, thanks for that info. Since its currently working, I might just leave as is till I get the need or urge. Lol

A gotcha I came across in trying to create 720k 3.5 inch floppies is that my external USB drive won't format these, only 1.44. Apparently not many do format 720k nowadays.

I think I've sourced one off ebay. On reflection, I wondered if I actually needed one since I now have a 3.5 drive on my 5150pc - der... ;)

I'm getting too old.

Thanks all.
Gordon
Click to expand...
Gordon: What formatting command did you use when attempting to do your 720K's?
 
Tried both format a: /f:720 and also format a: /t:80 /n:9 I'm using win 10 and I understand the first s yntax doesn't now work post win7. The response was something along lines of drive does not recognise these parameters.

Funnily enough the Teac drive is what I've bought as the spec said it would do 720 disks.
 
gfmoore said:
Tried both format a: /f:720 and also format a: /t:80 /n:9 I'm using win 10 and I understand the first s yntax doesn't now work post win7. The response was something along lines of drive does not recognise these parameters.

Funnily enough the Teac drive is what I've bought as the spec said it would do 720 disks.
Click to expand...
Is there anyway you could try that drive with maybe DOS or WIN98?
 
gfmoore said:
Tried both format a: /f:720 and also format a: /t:80 /n:9 I'm using win 10 and I understand the first s yntax doesn't now work post win7. The response was something along lines of drive does not recognise these parameters.
Funnily enough the Teac drive is what I've bought as the spec said it would do 720 disks.
Click to expand...
Behaviour that I observed today on my Windows 10 computer:

I have recently moved from a Windows 10 desktop computer to a Windows 10 notebook. (Draws less power.)
I connected up the Toshiba diskette drive that is shown at [here]. I.e. Actually an FD-05PUB.

I brought up a 'normal' command prompt (i.e. normal because I find that an 'Run as administrator' one is not needed).
Then, using "format a: /f:720":

• Actual 720K diskette (2S2D), already formatted = worked
• Actual 720K diskette(2S2D), unformatted = worked
• 1.44M diskette = Error message of "Parameters not supported by drive." <--- expected
• 1.44M diskette that has density hole covered = worked
 
gfmoore said:
Tried both format a: /f:720 and also format a: /t:80 /n:9 I'm using win 10 and I understand the first s yntax doesn't now work post win7. The response was something along lines of drive does not recognise these parameters.

Funnily enough the Teac drive is what I've bought as the spec said it would do 720 disks.
Click to expand...
Cover the hole so the drive “thinks” it’s a 720k disk, then just format with a standard command. Works every time for me.
 
No, I don't have dos or w98 - long gone.

Yep tried those variations. No joy with hole covered with black tape on both sides. Waiting for my teac drive.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top