How to test an MSV11J-JE

MattCarp · Mar 19, 2022

Here's something interesting.

Here we have an 11/73 with a KDJ11-BB processor, and, two MSV11-JE (2MB, PMI) memories.

When I boot my 11/73 in dialog mode (or, if I interrupt the boot with a Ctrl-C and run 'Test'), I get an Error 47 - Memory CSR Error. In fact, one of the MSV11-JE boards has the red LED illuminated.

If I go automatic boot mode, the error is not detected, and I can boot fine. (I assume the self test is either abbreviated, or not performed).

The memory boards are installed in slots 1 and 2, with the CPU in slot 3. I swapped the positions of the boards, and, swapped the starting addresses and CSR addresses and the problem card stayed the same. At this point, my problem card is in the upper 2MB address range, with the CSR address at 17772102 (the first card is at 17772100).

I then ran the PDP11GUI memory test from 10000000-17740000 and could not find a problem - everything passes.

When I run the self-test test, the error is reported as:

Code:

Error 47
Memory CSR Error

See troubleshooting documentation


Error PC = 173354       PCR page = 14   Program listing address = 014354

R0 = 060000     R1 = 130000     R2 = 172102     R3 = 172346    
R4 = 140000     R5 = 000000     R6 = 172300     Par3 = 140000

The MSV11 User Guide talks about a memory test program that can be executed from XXDP, CVMJA0. However, this program is not on my XXDP+ v2.5 diskettes (RX50 disks).

I have to take the error at face value, and, I'm hoping I can find a faulty memory chip on the board, replace it, and be on my way.

Can the self test error message be interpreted to indicate which memory location is a problem? Or, does it indicate a bigger problem?

Or, is there a different approach to diagnosing a memory problem? The MSV11 User Guide has a lot of information in chapter 4 about the CSR and diagnostics. I haven't fully absorbed that, but I think the purpose for that is if I wanted to write my own diagnostics program. I'm not capable of that at this time...

Anyway, assuming it's a memory chip, I would use the map explained on gunkies to isolate the faulty chip, desolder, and replace it with the same model chip (on this board TI TMS4256-15NL).

MattCarp · Mar 19, 2022

Ok - I was not thinking. I used the starting address table to get the memory test address range for PDPGUI.

I then thought for a second, the test shouldn't be from 10000000-17740000, but from 10000000-17777777.

Now I'm seeing the error in PDPGUI.

The data line test passed. The data bit chips test and the address lines test failed.

Address lines test result:

Code:

[39: Sat 11:12:30] Test address lines, phase 1, addr range= 10000000..17777776.
[40: Sat 11:12:30] Writing  ...
[41: Sat 11:12:31] Checking ...
[42: Sat 11:12:32] OK.
[43: Sat 11:12:32] Test address lines, phase 2, addr range= 10000000..17777776.
[44: Sat 11:12:32] Writing  ...
[45: Sat 11:12:34] Checking ...
[46: Sat 11:12:35] Error: word at 17767776 is ?, should be 167776, diff mask = 37777610001
[47: Sat 11:12:35] This maybe an error in address line 0
[48: Sat 11:12:35] Error: word at 17773776 is 023253, should be 173776, diff mask = 150525
[49: Sat 11:12:35] This maybe an error in address line 0
[50: Sat 11:12:35] Error: word at 17775776 is ?, should be 175776, diff mask = 37777602001
[51: Sat 11:12:35] This maybe an error in address line 0
[52: Sat 11:12:35] Error: word at 17776776 is ?, should be 176776, diff mask = 37777601001
[53: Sat 11:12:35] This maybe an error in address line 0
[54: Sat 11:12:35] Error: word at 17777376 is ?, should be 177376, diff mask = 37777600401
[55: Sat 11:12:35] This maybe an error in address line 0
[56: Sat 11:12:35] Error: word at 17777576 is 165224, should be 177576, diff mask = 012752
[57: Sat 11:12:35] This maybe an error in address line 1
[58: Sat 11:12:35] Error: word at 17777736 is ?, should be 177736, diff mask = 37777600041
[59: Sat 11:12:35] This maybe an error in address line 0
[60: Sat 11:12:35] Error: word at 17777756 is ?, should be 177756, diff mask = 37777600021
[61: Sat 11:12:35] This maybe an error in address line 0
[62: Sat 11:12:36] Error: word at 17777766 is 000000, should be 177766, diff mask = 177766
[63: Sat 11:12:36] This maybe an error in address line 1
[64: Sat 11:12:36] Error: word at 17777772 is 177356, should be 177772, diff mask = 000424
[65: Sat 11:12:36] This maybe an error in address line 2
[66: Sat 11:12:36] Error: word at 17777774 is ?, should be 177774, diff mask = 37777600003
[67: Sat 11:12:36] This maybe an error in address line 0
[68: Sat 11:12:36] Error: word at 17777776 is 174756, should be 177776, diff mask = 003020
[69: Sat 11:12:36] This maybe an error in address line 4
[70: Sat 11:12:36] There were errors.

The data bit chips test returned:

Code:

[71: Sat 11:12:48] Test data lines, addr range= 10000000..17777776, chip size = 1000000
[72: Sat 11:12:48] Testing moving ones at first addr of memory chips...
[73: Sat 11:12:49] OK
[74: Sat 11:12:49] Test data lines, addr range= 10000000..17777776, chip size = 1000000
[75: Sat 11:12:49] Testing moving zeros at first addr of memory chips...
[76: Sat 11:12:51] OK
[77: Sat 11:12:54] Test data bits, phase 1, addr range= 10000000..17777776, chip size = 1000000
[78: Sat 11:12:54]   Chip block 0: Writing address range = 10000000 .. 10000036
[79: Sat 11:12:55]   Chip block 1: Writing address range = 11000000 .. 11000036
[80: Sat 11:12:55]   Chip block 2: Writing address range = 12000000 .. 12000036
[81: Sat 11:12:56]   Chip block 3: Writing address range = 13000000 .. 13000036
[82: Sat 11:12:57]   Chip block 4: Writing address range = 14000000 .. 14000036
[83: Sat 11:12:59]   Chip block 5: Writing address range = 15000000 .. 15000036
[84: Sat 11:13:00]   Chip block 6: Writing address range = 16000000 .. 16000036
[85: Sat 11:13:01]   Chip block 7: Writing address range = 17000000 .. 17000036
[86: Sat 11:13:03] Checking ...
[87: Sat 11:13:10] OK.
[88: Sat 11:13:10] Test data bits, phase 2, addr range= 10000000..17777776, chip size = 1000000
[89: Sat 11:13:10]   Chip block 0: Writing address range = 10777740 .. 10777776
[90: Sat 11:13:11]   Chip block 1: Writing address range = 11777740 .. 11777776
[91: Sat 11:13:12]   Chip block 2: Writing address range = 12777740 .. 12777776
[92: Sat 11:13:13]   Chip block 3: Writing address range = 13777740 .. 13777776
[93: Sat 11:13:15]   Chip block 4: Writing address range = 14777740 .. 14777776
[94: Sat 11:13:16]   Chip block 5: Writing address range = 15777740 .. 15777776
[95: Sat 11:13:18]   Chip block 6: Writing address range = 16777740 .. 16777776
[96: Sat 11:13:19]   Chip block 7: Writing address range = 17777740 .. 17777776
[97: Sat 11:13:21] Checking ...
[98: Sat 11:13:29] Error: word at 17777740 is ?, should be 177776, diff mask = 37777600001
[99: Sat 11:13:29] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 0
[100: Sat 11:13:29] Error: word at 17777742 is ?, should be 177775, diff mask = 37777600002
[101: Sat 11:13:29] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 1
[102: Sat 11:13:29] Error: word at 17777744 is 000000, should be 177773, diff mask = 177773
[103: Sat 11:13:29] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 0
[104: Sat 11:13:29] Error: word at 17777746 is 003367, should be 177767, diff mask = 174400
[105: Sat 11:13:29] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 8
[106: Sat 11:13:29] Error: word at 17777750 is 000055, should be 177757, diff mask = 177702
[107: Sat 11:13:29] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 1
[108: Sat 11:13:29] Error: word at 17777752 is 000000, should be 177737, diff mask = 177737
[109: Sat 11:13:29] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 0
[110: Sat 11:13:29] Error: word at 17777754 is ?, should be 177677, diff mask = 37777600100
[111: Sat 11:13:29] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 6
[112: Sat 11:13:29] Error: word at 17777756 is ?, should be 177577, diff mask = 37777600200
[113: Sat 11:13:29] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 7
[114: Sat 11:13:29] Error: word at 17777760 is ?, should be 177377, diff mask = 37777600400
[115: Sat 11:13:29] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 8
[116: Sat 11:13:29] Error: word at 17777762 is ?, should be 176777, diff mask = 37777601000
[117: Sat 11:13:29] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 9
[118: Sat 11:13:30] Error: word at 17777764 is ?, should be 175777, diff mask = 37777602000
[119: Sat 11:13:30] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 10
[120: Sat 11:13:30] Error: word at 17777766 is 000000, should be 173777, diff mask = 173777
[121: Sat 11:13:30] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 0
[122: Sat 11:13:30] Error: word at 17777770 is ?, should be 167777, diff mask = 37777610000
[123: Sat 11:13:30] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 12
[124: Sat 11:13:30] Error: word at 17777772 is 157356, should be 157777, diff mask = 000421
[125: Sat 11:13:30] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 0
[126: Sat 11:13:30] Error: word at 17777774 is ?, should be 137777, diff mask = 37777640000
[127: Sat 11:13:30] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 14
[128: Sat 11:13:30] Error: word at 17777776 is 074757, should be 077777, diff mask = 003020
[129: Sat 11:13:30] This maybe an error in data chip for bit 4
[130: Sat 11:13:30] There were errors.

I'll need to study this to see if I can make sense of it.

From the PDP11GUI documentation: "If Phase 1 succeeds, but phase 2 has an error, then two address lines are somehow coupled."

Problems are from 17777740 to 17777777, bits 0, 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14

That's a fairly narrow address range, but also a lot of bit positions. Does that suggest 10 chips are failed? I'd rather think that there's a problem somewhere in the address decoding, which, if it's not a simple logic chip, it's the gate arrays, which means this board is toasted?

wa2flq · Mar 19, 2022

There is a a later version of XXDP - CVMJA0, though I can't check right now to see that I have it. Look at AH-U136B-MC__MSV11-J-L-P__MSV11-J_MEMORY_DIAG__CVMJAB0__(C)1985.pdf.

The older and/or simpler memory testing may not do setup requirements for features present on these boards. These boards have both Parity and ECC. I would make sure that the bootstrap ROMs, OS and/or diagnostic are feature aware. Also check out micronote 28.

Are you scanning for known fault or just doing a QA Test?

Jerry

AK6DN · Mar 19, 2022

As a matter of fact my XXDP 11/23 basic diagnostic TU58 disk image 1123_1.DSK located here https://www.ak6dn.com/PDP-11/TU58/
has an image VMJAB0.BIC on it (entry 23 in the listing). Originally from the XXDPv25 RL02 disk image. Attached a zip'ed version of VMJAB0.BIC in case you need access.

Code:

DOS11 format, assume monitor starts at block 8
Image supports 512 blocks
4 directory blocks, block 3 thru 6
1 bitmap block, block 7
491 device blocks in use according to the bitmap

ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT        DATE          LENGTH  START   VERSION

    1  XXDPSM.SYS       1-MAR-89          29     40     E.0
    2  XXDPXM.SYS       1-MAR-89          39     69     F.0
    3  DRSSM .SYS       1-MAR-89          24    108     G.2
    4  DRSXM .SYS       1-MAR-89          48    132     C.0
    5  DATE  .SYS       1-MAR-89           2    180     B.0
    6  DB    .SYS       1-MAR-89           2    182     C.0
    7  DD    .SYS       1-MAR-89           3    184     D.0
    8  DIR   .SYS       1-MAR-89           7    187     D.0
    9  DL    .SYS       1-MAR-89           4    194     D.0
   10  DM    .SYS       1-MAR-89           4    198     C.0
   11  DR    .SYS       1-MAR-89           3    202     C.0
   12  DU    .SYS       1-MAR-89           4    205     E.0
   13  DUSZ  .SYS       1-MAR-89           2    209     C.0
   14  DY    .SYS       1-MAR-89           3    211     D.0
   15  LP    .SYS       1-MAR-89           1    214     B.0
   16  MM    .SYS       1-MAR-89           3    215     C.0
   17  MS    .SYS       1-MAR-89           4    218     C.0
   18  MU    .SYS       1-MAR-89           4    222     E.0
   19  JKDAD1.BIC       1-MAR-89          28    226
   20  JKDBD0.BIC       1-MAR-89          52    254
   21  JKDCB0.BIC       1-MAR-89          52    306
   22  JKDDB0.BIC       1-MAR-89          32    358
   23  VMJAB0.BIC       1-MAR-89          59    390
   24  VMSAC0.BIC       1-MAR-89          25    449
   25  VMSBD0.BIC       1-MAR-89           9    474
   26  JKDAD1.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    483
   27  JKDBD0.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    484
   28  JKDCB0.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    485
   29  JKDDB0.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    486
   30  VMJAB0.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    487
   31  VMSAC0.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    488
   32  VMSBD0.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    489
   33  TEST  .CCC      31-DEC-99           1    490

FREE BLOCKS:    21

MattCarp · Mar 20, 2022

Thank you!

unfortunately, I’m trying to find the source of a fault. The one MSV11-JE board does not present an error, but the other does.

I’ll check out vmjab0!

MattCarp · Mar 22, 2022

AK6DN said:

As a matter of fact my XXDP 11/23 basic diagnostic TU58 disk image 1123_1.DSK located here https://www.ak6dn.com/PDP-11/TU58/
has an image VMJAB0.BIC on it (entry 23 in the listing). Originally from the XXDPv25 RL02 disk image. Attached a zip'ed version of VMJAB0.BIC in case you need access.

Code:

DOS11 format, assume monitor starts at block 8
Image supports 512 blocks
4 directory blocks, block 3 thru 6
1 bitmap block, block 7
491 device blocks in use according to the bitmap

ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT        DATE          LENGTH  START   VERSION

    1  XXDPSM.SYS       1-MAR-89          29     40     E.0
    2  XXDPXM.SYS       1-MAR-89          39     69     F.0
    3  DRSSM .SYS       1-MAR-89          24    108     G.2
    4  DRSXM .SYS       1-MAR-89          48    132     C.0
    5  DATE  .SYS       1-MAR-89           2    180     B.0
    6  DB    .SYS       1-MAR-89           2    182     C.0
    7  DD    .SYS       1-MAR-89           3    184     D.0
    8  DIR   .SYS       1-MAR-89           7    187     D.0
    9  DL    .SYS       1-MAR-89           4    194     D.0
   10  DM    .SYS       1-MAR-89           4    198     C.0
   11  DR    .SYS       1-MAR-89           3    202     C.0
   12  DU    .SYS       1-MAR-89           4    205     E.0
   13  DUSZ  .SYS       1-MAR-89           2    209     C.0
   14  DY    .SYS       1-MAR-89           3    211     D.0
   15  LP    .SYS       1-MAR-89           1    214     B.0
   16  MM    .SYS       1-MAR-89           3    215     C.0
   17  MS    .SYS       1-MAR-89           4    218     C.0
   18  MU    .SYS       1-MAR-89           4    222     E.0
   19  JKDAD1.BIC       1-MAR-89          28    226
   20  JKDBD0.BIC       1-MAR-89          52    254
   21  JKDCB0.BIC       1-MAR-89          52    306
   22  JKDDB0.BIC       1-MAR-89          32    358
   23  VMJAB0.BIC       1-MAR-89          59    390
   24  VMSAC0.BIC       1-MAR-89          25    449
   25  VMSBD0.BIC       1-MAR-89           9    474
   26  JKDAD1.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    483
   27  JKDBD0.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    484
   28  JKDCB0.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    485
   29  JKDDB0.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    486
   30  VMJAB0.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    487
   31  VMSAC0.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    488
   32  VMSBD0.CCC      31-DEC-99           1    489
   33  TEST  .CCC      31-DEC-99           1    490

FREE BLOCKS:    21

Don, these XXDP archives are BRILLIANT!

Although it's pretty straightforward to use tu58fs, do you know if I could just write this disk image to an SD card and attempt to read it as a SCSI disk drive using a SCSI2SD device?

I'm still learning the PDP ropes, but doesn't it come down to the format of a disk volume v. tape volume?

I suppose if that's the case, what kinds of volume formats does XXDP understand?

-Matt

AK6DN · Mar 22, 2022

A TU58, although it is physically a cartridge tape, implements a block addressable physical device (just like the original DECtape tape drives did; in fact TU58 is called DECtapeII by DEC). So from the point of view of software a TU58 looks just like a disk drive.

You could copy a TU58 .DSK file to a SCSI2SD drive image but it won't be bootable. It would have the DD.SYS driver for TU58 instead of the DU.SYS driver for MSCP compatible controllers.

Probably the simplest process would be to boot from TU58 XXDP system 11XXDP.DSK, and then if a DU controller is available with SCSI2SD partition setup, INIT the SCSI2SD as an XXDP filesystem, copy all the files to it, and then copy the bootstrap. You would then have a bootable XXDP filesystem on your SCSI2SD drive.

So after booting from the TU58 image on drive 0, do these XXDP commands:

Code:

INIT DU0:
COPY *.* DU0:
COPY/BOOT DD0: DU0:

and then at this point you should have a bootable disk image on DU0, that should boot from the ODT command 'b du0'.

AK6DN · Mar 23, 2022

MattCarp said:
I suppose if that's the case, what kinds of volume formats does XXDP understand?

-Matt

Lots of documents about XXDP file structures, programs, devices supported here: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/xxdp/

Basically XXDP uses the DOS-11 on disk filesystem with some minor simplifications. A maximum of 32MB is supported (ie, 64K 512B blocks).

Most of the DEC disk drives have drivers (in the form XX.SYS on the disk; ie DD.SYS for the DD DecTapeII TU58 device).

gslick · Mar 23, 2022

You could also start with this XXDP 2.5 RL02 disk image:

http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/pdp11/discimages/rl02/xxdp25.rl02.gz

Boot that image up in SIMH attached to an emulated RL02 drive, and after it is booted, initialize an emulated DU disk image attached to an emulated DU disk drive, and then copy all of the files from the RL02 XXDP 2.5 image to the DU image, and make the DU image bootable.

Then exit SIMH and 'dd' the DU image you just created to your SD card. In the past I have done those steps and instead of copying the image to an SD card (I don't have a SCSI2SD) I burned the image to a CD and booted from that CD in a SCSI CD drive attached to a Q-Bus SCSI controller.

I still have those DU XXDP 2.5 images, just not on the PC that I'm at right now. I could find a copy and send you a link if it would be helpful.

gslick · Mar 23, 2022

It's been a while since the last time I did this. Took a while to remember all of the magic spells. Here is how I created a DU bootable RD51 sized disk image from the RL02 XXDP 2.5 disk image using SIMH.

This resulted in a DU bootable RD51 sized disk image of 11,059,712 bytes. The last 512 bytes of the image is an extra SIMH disk image tag that could be stripped off before copying the image to physical media. I don't know if there is a SIMH flag to prevent it from adding that disk image tag to the end of a disk image file.

PDP11.INI

Code:

SET CPU 11/73
SET CPU 4M
SET DZ  DISABLED
SET LPT DISABLED
SET PTP DISABLED
SET PTR DISABLED
SET RL1 DISABLED
SET RL2 DISABLED
SET RL3 DISABLED
SET ROM DISABLED
SET RP  DISABLED
SET RX  DISABLED
SET XQ  DISABLED
SET RQ1 DISABLED
SET RQ2 DISABLED
SET RQ3 DISABLED
SET TQ  DISABLED
SET RL0 RL02
SET RL0 LOCKED
ATTACH RL0 XXDP25.RL02
SET RQ0 RD51
ATTACH RQ0 XXDP-RD51.DSK

SIMH LOG:

Code:

C:\tmp\XXDP>pdp11

PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Current        git commit id: 0912a927
Disabling RK
Disabling HK
Disabling TM
C:/tmp/XXDP/pdp11.ini-20> ATTACH RL0 XXDP25.RL02
RL0: unit is read only
RL0: No File System found on 'XXDP25.RL02', skipping autosizing
C:/tmp/XXDP/pdp11.ini-22> ATTACH RQ0 XXDP-RD51.DSK
RQ0: creating new file: XXDP-RD51.DSK
sim> BOOT RL0

BOOTING UP XXDP-XM EXTENDED MONITOR


XXDP-XM EXTENDED MONITOR - XXDP V2.5
REVISION: F0
BOOTED FROM DL0
124KW OF MEMORY
NON-UNIBUS SYSTEM

RESTART ADDRESS: 152000
TYPE "H" FOR HELP !

.INIT DU0:
USER DATA ON DU0 WILL BE DESTROYED !
PROCEED?(Y/N/CR=N)Y

.R UPDAT
UPDAT .BIC

UPDAT - XXDP V2 UPDATE UTILITY REVISION G
RESTART: 004140

*CREATE DU0:

*EXIT

.COPY DL0:*.* DU0:
<727 files copied>

.BOOT DU0:


BOOTING UP XXDP-XM EXTENDED MONITOR


XXDP-XM EXTENDED MONITOR - XXDP V2.5
REVISION: F0
BOOTED FROM DU0
124KW OF MEMORY
NON-UNIBUS SYSTEM

RESTART ADDRESS: 152000
TYPE "H" FOR HELP !

.DIR
<727 files listed>

FREE BLOCKS:  3934

Hunta · Mar 23, 2022

The disk will most likely boot to the remote control, but I never made to check it. It has VMJAB0.BIC

http://www.kpxx.ru/dec/PDP-11/Software/OS/xxDP/XXDPDU.dsk

gslick · Mar 24, 2022

Did you give up on making further progress on diagnosing the MSV11-JE memory issues, or do you have more than one M8190 KDJ11-B you can use for further testing?

DEC PDP-11 M8190 KDJ11 processor card - tested! | eBay

DEC PDP-11/73 processor card. (15 MHz, KDJ11). Quad width QBus. R4 = 100000 R5 = 000000 R6 = 172300 Par3 = 040000. After removing the board, I get a proper startup Commands are: [Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map, Test. ].

www.ebay.com

A current bid of $760 seems curiously high for a M8190 KDJ11-B from what I have seen in sales for these over the last several years. Guess it only takes two bidders who don't want to lose out to each other.

reinhardtjh · Mar 24, 2022

There are two other M8190 boards currently on Ebay. They are still autcionts but the current bids are lower. One is from a known DEC reseller VARX. https://www.ebay.com/itm/325113747866

The other is not anyone I have heard of before. https://www.ebay.com/itm/275133677980

Both seem to be the 15Mhz PDP-11/73 version without the floating point chip. I can't tell on the VARX board but the second board is an older etch levels.

Keyways on Ebay also has tested, 14-day guaranteed MSV11-JE memory boards. Not cheap but if it comes down to getting a working one it may be worth it. https://www.ebay.com/itm/144471892686

Hunta · Mar 25, 2022

Hunta said:
The disk will most likely boot

Yes, the disk image is bootable

Code:

Testing in progress - Please wait
Memory Size is 4088 K Bytes
9 Step memory test
  Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9


Message 04      Entering Dialog mode

Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test.
Type a command then press the RETURN key: BOO DU0


Trying DU0

Starting system from DU0




BOOTING UP XXDP-XM EXTENDED MONITOR


XXDP-XM EXTENDED MONITOR - XXDP V2.5
REVISION: F0
BOOTED FROM DU0
124KW OF MEMORY
NON-UNIBUS SYSTEM

RESTART ADDRESS: 152000
TYPE "H" FOR HELP !

.R VMJAB0
VMJAB0.BIC

 CVMJAB0  ECC/PARITY MEMORY DIAGNOSTIC
   11/83 CACHE AVAILABLE
SWR = 000000  NEW =


               CSR MAP

CSR     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
MEMTYPE   P


CSR NUMBER 1 CONTROLS TOO MANY BANKS
  2044K OF Q-BUS PARITY MEMORY
  2044K WORDS OF MEMORY TOTAL

                        MEMORY CONFIGURATION MAP
                             16K WORD BANKS
                1       2       3       4       5       6       7
        012345670123456701234567012345670123456701234567012345670123
ERRORS
MEMTYPE PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
CSR     111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
PROTECT PP
            1       1       1       1       1       1       1
            0       1       2       3       4       5       6
        456701234567012345670123456701234567012345670123456701234567
ERRORS
MEMTYPE PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
CSR     111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
PROTECT
        1
        7
        01234567
ERRORS
MEMTYPE PPPPPPPP
CSR     11111111
PROTECT

Code:

BOOTING UP XXDP-XM EXTENDED MONITOR
 
 
XXDP-XM EXTENDED MONITOR - XXDP V2.5
REVISION: F0
BOOTED FROM DU0
124KW OF MEMORY
NON-UNIBUS SYSTEM
 
RESTART ADDRESS: 152000
TYPE "H" FOR HELP !
 
.D
 
ENTRY# FILNAM.EXT        DATE          LENGTH  START   VERSION
 
    1  XXDPSM.SYS      20-AUG-90         29    000522   E.0
    2  XXDPXM.SYS      20-AUG-90         39    000557   F.0
    3  DRSSM .SYS      20-AUG-90         24    000626   G.2
    4  DRSXM .SYS      20-AUG-90         48    000656   C.0
    5  TMONSM.SYS       3-FEB-88         23    000736   A.1
    6  TMONXM.SYS      16-NOV-90         33    000765   A.2
    7  TMCSM .SYS       1-JAN-86         24    001026   A.0
    8  TMCXM .SYS       1-JAN-86         49    001056   A.0
    9  DATE  .SYS      20-AUG-90          2    001137   B.0
   10  DIR   .SYS      20-AUG-90          7    001141   D.0
   11  HX    .SYS      24-MAY-99          4    001150   A.2
   12  DU    .SYS      24-FEB-88          4    001154   E.0
   13  DB    .SYS      24-FEB-88          2    001160   C.0
   14  DD    .SYS      24-FEB-88          3    001162   D.0
   15  DL    .SYS      24-FEB-88          4    001165   D.0
   16  DM    .SYS      24-FEB-88          4    001171   C.0
   17  DR    .SYS      24-FEB-88          3    001175   C.0
   18  DUSZ  .SYS      24-FEB-88          2    001200   C.0
   19  DX    .SYS       1-JAN-86          3    001202   A.0
   20  DY    .SYS      24-FEB-88          3    001205   D.0
   21  DZ    .SYS      25-JAN-89          3    001210   A.1
   22  LP    .SYS      24-FEB-88          1    001213   B.0
   23  MM    .SYS      24-FEB-88          3    001214   C.0
   24  MS    .SYS      24-FEB-88          4    001217   C.0
   25  MT    .SYS       2-DEC-87          3    001223   A.0
   26  MU    .SYS      24-FEB-88          4    001226   E.0
   27  PP    .SYS      25-JAN-89          1    001232   A.1
   28  PR    .SYS      29-MAY-89          1    001233   A.1
   29  HDDAA0.SYS       5-SEP-84          4    001234   ?.?
   30  HDDBB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          2    001240   ?.?
   31  HDDDC0.SYS      16-DEC-82          3    001242   ?.?
   32  HDDDRY.SYS      13-SEP-94          3    001245   ?.?
   33  HDDKB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          2    001250   ?.?
   34  HDDKB1.SYS       2-JAN-70          2    001252   ?.?
   35  HDDLC0.SYS      16-DEC-82          4    001254   ?.?
   36  HDDMB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          4    001260   ?.?
   37  HDDPB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          2    001264   ?.?
   38  HDDQB1.SYS       5-SEP-84          4    001266   ?.?
   39  HDDRB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          3    001272   ?.?
   40  HDDSB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          2    001275   ?.?
   41  HDDTB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          2    001277   ?.?
   42  HDDUA0.SYS      16-DEC-82          3    001301   ?.?
   43  HDDXB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          3    001304   ?.?
   44  HDDYB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          3    001307   ?.?
   45  HDDYC0.SYS       5-SEP-84          3    001312   ?.?
   46  HDKBB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          1    001315   ?.?
   47  HDLPA0.SYS      16-DEC-82          1    001316   ?.?
   48  HDMMA0.SYS      25-MAR-80          2    001317   ?.?
   49  HDMMB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          3    001321   ?.?
   50  HDMSB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          3    001324   ?.?
   51  HDMTB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          3    001327   ?.?
   52  HDPDB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          3    001332   ?.?
   53  HDPEA0.SYS       2-JAN-70          2    001335   ?.?
   54  HDPEA1.SYS      12-DEC-84          3    001337   ?.?
   55  HDPPB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          1    001342   ?.?
   56  HDPRB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          1    001343   ?.?
   57  HDPTB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          1    001344   ?.?
   58  HDTRA0.SYS      16-DEC-82          2    001345   ?.?
   59  HMDAA0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    001347   ?.?
   60  HMDBB1.SYS      16-DEC-82         16    001370   ?.?
   61  HMDBC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         12    001410   ?.?
   62  HMDBD0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    001424   ?.?
   63  HMDDB2.SYS      16-DEC-82         17    001445   ?.?
   64  HMDDC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         13    001466   ?.?
   65  HMDDD0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    001503   ?.?
   66  HMDDRY.SYS      20-SEP-94         17    001524   ?.?
   67  HMDKB1.SYS      16-DEC-82         16    001545   ?.?
   68  HMDKC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         12    001565   ?.?
   69  HMDKD0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    001601   ?.?
   70  HMDLC1.SYS      16-DEC-82         17    001622   ?.?
   71  HMDLD0.SYS       3-MAR-83         13    001643   ?.?
   72  HMDLE0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    001660   ?.?
   73  HMDMB2.SYS      16-DEC-82         17    001701   ?.?
   74  HMDMC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         12    001722   ?.?
   75  HMDMD0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    001736   ?.?
   76  HMDPB1.SYS      16-DEC-82         16    001757   ?.?
   77  HMDPC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         11    001777   ?.?
   78  HMDPD0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    002012   ?.?
   79  HMDQC0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    002033   ?.?
   80  HMDRB1.SYS      16-DEC-82         17    002054   ?.?
   81  HMDRC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         12    002075   ?.?
   82  HMDRD0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    002111   ?.?
   83  HMDSB1.SYS      16-DEC-82         16    002132   ?.?
   84  HMDSC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         12    002152   ?.?
   85  HMDSD0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    002166   ?.?
   86  HMDTB1.SYS      16-DEC-82         17    002207   ?.?
   87  HMDTC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         12    002230   ?.?
   88  HMDTC1.SYS       5-SEP-84         12    002244   ?.?
   89  HMDUA0.SYS      16-DEC-82         12    002260   ?.?
   90  HMDUC0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    002274   ?.?
   91  HMDXB2.SYS      16-DEC-82         17    002315   ?.?
   92  HMDXC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         12    002336   ?.?
   93  HMDXD0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    002352   ?.?
   94  HMDYB2.SYS      16-DEC-82         17    002373   ?.?
   95  HMDYC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         12    002414   ?.?
   96  HMDYD0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    002430   ?.?
   97  HMMMB1.SYS      16-DEC-82         17    002451   ?.?
   98  HMMMC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         12    002472   ?.?
   99  HMMMD0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    002506   ?.?
  100  HMMSB1.SYS      16-DEC-82         17    002527   ?.?
  101  HMMSC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         13    002550   ?.?
  102  HMMSD0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    002565   ?.?
  103  HMMTB1.SYS      16-DEC-82         17    002606   ?.?
  104  HMMTC0.SYS       3-MAR-83         12    002627   ?.?
  105  HMMTD0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    002643   ?.?
  106  HMPDB1.SYS      16-DEC-82         17    002664   ?.?
  107  HMTRA0.SYS      16-DEC-82         12    002705   ?.?
  108  HMTRB0.SYS       3-MAR-83         12    002721   ?.?
  109  HMTRC0.SYS       5-SEP-84         17    002735   ?.?
  110  HSAAC4.SYS      16-DEC-82         24    002756   ?.?
  111  HSAAD0.SYS       3-MAR-83         24    003006   ?.?
  112  HSAAE0.SYS       5-SEP-84         24    003036   ?.?
  113  HSABC0.SYS      16-DEC-82         28    003066   ?.8
  114  HSABC1.SYS       5-SEP-84         28    003122   ?.8
  115  HSACC0.SYS      16-DEC-82         27    003156   ?.?
  116  HSADB0.SYS      16-DEC-82         25    003211   ?.?
  117  HUDIB0.SYS      16-DEC-82          5    003242   ?.?
  118  001103.BIC       1-JAN-84         12    003247
  119  012101.BIN       1-JAN-70         24    003263
  120  014101.BIC       1-JAN-86         17    003313
  121  014102.BIC       1-JAN-86         20    003334


 .......
  865  VMEMA0.BIC      24-FEB-88         16    034130
  866  VMJAB0.BIC      24-FEB-88         59    034150
  867  VMJAB0.CCC      31-DEC-99          1    034243
......
 

 2059  ZVTLA0.BIN      24-FEB-88         12    124662
 2060  ZVTMA0.BIN      24-FEB-88         29    124676
 2061  ZVTNA0.BIC      24-FEB-88         13    124733
 2062  ZVTOA0.BIC      21-SEP-81         19    124750
 2063  ZVTVA0.BIN      24-FEB-88          9    124773
 
FREE BLOCKS: 22011
 
 
.

Hunta · Mar 25, 2022

Code:

END PASS #QV     1
END PASS #     2
END PASS #     3

MattCarp · Mar 26, 2022

gslick said:
Did you give up on making further progress on diagnosing the MSV11-JE memory issues, or do you have more than one M8190 KDJ11-B you can use for further testing?

DEC PDP-11 M8190 KDJ11 processor card - tested! | eBay

DEC PDP-11/73 processor card. (15 MHz, KDJ11). Quad width QBus. R4 = 100000 R5 = 000000 R6 = 172300 Par3 = 040000. After removing the board, I get a proper startup Commands are: [Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map, Test. ].

www.ebay.com

A current bid of $760 seems curiously high for a M8190 KDJ11-B from what I have seen in sales for these over the last several years. Guess it only takes two bidders who don't want to lose out to each other.

I originally put my system together about 10-15 years ago !! During that time, I bought a set of critical spares - a KDJ11-BB processor, a RX50 floppy, a spare RQDX3, DEQNA ethernet, and MSV11 512k memory.
After I got MicroRSX installed on an MFM (ST-251-1) hard disk with the RQDX3, I put it away.

Recently, as I've been getting SCSI going and RSX-11M v4.6 running, I looked into my PDP-11 bin and found the "critical spares". I may regret this, but I've decided to sell all my spares. I probably should have posted here to avoid eBay fees, but I do find eBay to be a good market. Who knows what was the right decision on that point.

The KDJ11 is going for more than I expected. You're right - there seemed to be a bidding war there. Let's see if they follow through with payment. I hope they do, since I decided to replace the MSV11-JE through Keyways!

I still have the board with the error. I'm going to see if the problem is in a memory chip, or, more significant. You know, it's possible the card was plugged into a Q/Q slot, damaging it, since I have the hybrid H9278-A backplane.. I may have even been the one to do that a long time ago... :-o

MattCarp · Mar 27, 2022

AK6DN said:
You could copy a TU58 .DSK file to a SCSI2SD drive image but it won't be bootable. It would have the DD.SYS driver for TU58 instead of the DU.SYS driver for MSCP compatible controllers.

Probably the simplest process would be to boot from TU58 XXDP system 11XXDP.DSK, and then if a DU controller is available with SCSI2SD partition setup, INIT the SCSI2SD as an XXDP filesystem, copy all the files to it, and then copy the bootstrap. You would then have a bootable XXDP filesystem on your SCSI2SD drive.

So after booting from the TU58 image on drive 0, do these XXDP commands:

Code:

INIT DU0: COPY *.* DU0: COPY/BOOT DD0: DU0:

and then at this point you should have a bootable disk image on DU0, that should boot from the ODT command 'b du0'.

I was able to do this - it was fun to see the boot happen with tu58fs - but I was only able to create an xxdp RX50 floppy. I couldn't seem to initialize a blank SD card plugged into my SCSI2SD adapter.

I'm starting to wonder about SCSI2SD. It seems that the SCSI2SD configuration is fixed for a specific SD card? What if I change SD cards [of different types]?

I have a 16GB SD card set up with RSX. I was able to boot from it, use it to set up a physical hard disk. I think I set it up as multiple devices with the SCSI2SD config utility. But, if I pop out the SD card and put in a 1GB SD card, it isn't going to use the same SCSI2SD configuration. In fact, it seems like the drive is offline? Is SCSI2SD setup/configuration fixed to a specific SD card geometry?

Matlock · Mar 27, 2022

The way configurations are stored on newer (iirc V5.0 and above) SCSI2SD cards is that the data is written in the highest block on the SD cards.
So before an SD card can be used you need to configure it. On older SD cards this was kept on the device in non-volatile memory.

Storing the data on the SDcard is a better solution because you can have completely different configurations and operating systems on different cards.

Another tool img2sd for handling sdcard disk image files was developed by Joerg Hoppe. The configuration information on the card is stored in XML and Joerg's program reads this and then accepts commands to move the images which is easier than trying to get the dd command syntax correct for a particular partition.

GitHub - j-hoppe/img2sd: moves SCSI disk images from and to a SCSI2SD SDcard

moves SCSI disk images from and to a SCSI2SD SDcard - j-hoppe/img2sd

github.com

An example of using img2sd is:

./img2sd -v -d sdb -c 4xRD54_rev471.xml -r 0 img0.dat -r 1 img1.dat

Help for img2sd:

img2sd - moves SimH disk images from and to SCSI2SD SDcard
version: Dec 26 2017 08:49:33
Contact: j_hoppe@t-online.de, retrocmp.com

For SCSI2SD doc and downloads see "http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=SCSI2SD"

Command line summary:

img2sd --help --verbose --device <device_filename> --xml <config_filename>
--read <target_id> <image_file> --write <target_id> <image_file>
--compare <target_id> <image_file>
--writecompare <target_id> <image_file>

-? | --help
Print help
-v | --verbose
Verbose output
-d | --device <device_filename>
Raw SDCard device, without "/dev".
To check: plug in SDcard, then "dmesg | tail"
Simple example: -d sdb
Use "/dev/sdb" as interface to SDcard.
-x | --xml <config_filename>
Path to mandatory SCSI2SD geometry config file (XML)
Simple example: -x 4xRD54_rev471.xml
The XML file must be generated with "scsi2sd-util".
-r | --read <target_id> <image_file>
Read disk image from SDcard partition.
Simple example: -r 3,rsxdata.img
Read partition with SCSI ID #3 and save it as file "rsxdata.img".
-w | --write <target_id> <image_file>
Write disk image into SDcard partition. Size must fit!
Simple example: -w 0,rt1157.rd54
Copy the disk image file "rt1157.rd54" onto drive #0 partition
Offset and size on SDcard is taken from XML config file.
-c | --compare <target_id> <image_file>
Compare disk image file with SDcard partition.
-wc | --writecompare <target_id> <image_file>
First write, then compare

Option names are case insensitive.

MattCarp · Mar 27, 2022

Thank you, Mark! I'll need to get back to that.

Now, back to the topic of the title of this post, I've been working with VMJAB0.

It looks like I have a bit 2 problem in all of my even word banks from 140-177.

Here's a couple snapshots of dumps from the diagnostic program. I haven't seen any physical addresses with an odd address (maybe I shouldn't?)

Using gunkies wiki that maps the bits to chips, I'm going to replace a couple 4256 chips and see if that salvages the 2M card....

Code:

MEMORY DATA ERROR
  PC    BANK  VADD     PADD     GOOD     BAD     XOR  CSR  MTYP INT PAT
025776  140  157774  14077774  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.
025776  140  157770  14077770  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.
025776  140  157764  14077764  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.
025776  140  157760  14077760  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.

MEMORY DATA ERROR
  PC    BANK  VADD     PADD     GOOD     BAD     XOR  CSR  MTYP INT PAT
025776  154  157774  15477774  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.
025776  154  157770  15477770  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.
025776  154  157764  15477764  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.
025776  154  157760  15477760  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.
025776  154  157754  15477754  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.
025776  154  157750  15477750  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.
025776  154  157744  15477744  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.
025776  154  157740  15477740  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.
025776  154  157734  15477734  000377  000375  000002  1     E       17.

AK6DN · Mar 27, 2022

Since it is printing out octal 16b words, you won't see an odd address (which would be the address of the upper 8b byte).
Words are referenced at the even address of the lower byte.
My guess is a bad dram chip.

How to test an MSV11J-JE

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