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IBM 5154 - vsync issue?

mt777

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Apr 28, 2019
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Poland, USA DE
I am not so familiar with high-voltage electronic in crt monitors but maybe someone can judge what's the problem.

Video:
 

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The V scan amplitude is low and the v scan oscillator and H scan oscillator in the VDU are out of lock with the incoming vertical and H syncs.

The 5154 has scan oscillators (both vertical and horizontal) which run independently of the H & V syncs provided by the computer.

So if the brightness is turned right up it should still be possible to see a normal scanning raster (the entire screen should illuminate) if the internal oscillators and scan output amplifiers are working properly, even with incorrect sync.

If part of the raster scan is not there on the vertical axis (non linear or compressed into a small zone with inadequate height), then there is something wrong with the Vertical drive signal to the vertical output stage (this is derived from a vertical scan oscillator and sawtooth generator in one IC as I recall....I would have to check the schematic I have at home), or the vertical output stage itself. It requires a scope to look at the signals, likely some capacitors around the vertical scan stage have gone high ESR.

The fact though, that there appears to be 3 faults, suggests a possible power supply issue in the region of the H and V oscillator and sawtooth generator circuits. I away at the moment and don't have easy access to the 5154 schematic, but I can look at it later.

(clearly your H output stage is fine. The EHT generator and CRT support circuitry is probably good too. In the 5154 as I recall, they were smart enough to generate the EHT separately from the H scan & output stage...normally in most VDU' s they are combined, so they could switch between CGA-EGA standards without affecting the EHT in the 5154).

Try exercising the vertical hold preset control .
 
I can smell smoke residues from the top cover.

I changed position of the rotary knob and it was `the best` what could achieve.

Yes, without signal monitor has bright on the whole screen.
 
I can smell smoke residues from the top cover.

I changed position of the rotary knob and it was `the best` what could achieve.

Yes, without signal monitor has bright on the whole screen.

That suggests the vertical scan amplifiers are ok and there is an abnormality where the H &V scan oscillators cannot lock to the incoming syncs or those are abnormal in some way.

What signal source are you feeding it from, is it known to be ok on another CGA or EGA VDU ?
 
I tried with IBM EGA which tested with other monitor and is confirmed that works.
Today I checked with IBM CGA and text is appearing and readable. Vertical is not fully stretched (the same size like ega) and screen is bliking every second. But overall much better result than EGA.
 
If CGA is basically working, and EGA not (it appeared to not be synchronized) then something might have gone wrong with the circuit in the 5154 which detects the EGA-CGA difference , which is the polarity of the vertical sync pulse, and it might still be stuck in CGA mode attempting to display EGA, where both the H & Vscan oscillators would not lock correctly, because the H frequency is too far off and the V sync has the wrong polarity.

It will probably be necessary to go through the input circuitry with the scope to find out what has gone wrong.
 
After some times I have big update.

Inside PSU (which already was repaired by someone because rivets were removed) - 0.1uF AC cap was destroyed.
I replaced all caps in this cpu.

Next, I desoldered TDA chip, big caps and small around TDA, logic chip. Logic chip was ok under tester, TDA I ordered new and caps replaced.
After powering on:
- CGA mode works without issues
- EGA. Text mode is a bit distorted in horizontal (especially at early beginning). In games mode no issues

Videos:

In general big improvements but still no perfect. What's are next recommendations?

// now I discovered that didn't solder 271k (270pF) capacitor which was directly soldered between #4 and #8 on TDA chip (I accidentaly damaged this cap and don't have now replacement)
 
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The first video shows an irregular or erratic horizontal position error the displayed text.

With something like this the first question is :

Is it the scanning raster that has the error, or is it the timing of the picture information that has it.

Often, initially, it can be difficult to tell because the CRT is over-scanned and the edge (sides) of the scanning raster is not visible, unless say the width was reduced and the brightness turned up to see the right or left hand edge of the raster.

In general irregular horizontal raster scan defects occur because the peak yoke scanning currents are very high at the beginning and end of scan, so bad connections, dry solder joins etc can be a cause.

If it is the picture (video) content moving in the raster (and the scanning raster is rock solid) this implies a fault in the H sync and AFC circuit and even the H scan oscillator circuit.

If there is amplitude modulation of the H sync (say from power supply ripple), it causes phase errors that can do it.

If the oscillator frequency is moving around that can also do it.

The reason is that the Horizontal lock system (called AFC or automatic frequency control) is a type of PLL (phased lock loop) where the output frequency is fed back, compared with the H sync pulse frequency and a DC control voltage is created which manipulates the running frequency of the H scan oscillator to pull it into phase lock with the incoming H sync. Any disturbance inside the AFC loop, from any cause will make the picture shift left and right or jitter. This is why once the system is in lock, if you turn the H. hold control, this way and that, the picture will move left and right before it drops out of lock. Many sets also have a phase control, to set the H picture position which either manipulates the arrival time of the sync or the fed back oscillator output signal.

And of course if there are power supply problems you can have simultaneous picture disturbances along with raster disturbances.

In cases where there is trouble in the AFC loop, the only way to see of the H.osc and other parts are stable is to remove the H sync pulses (or break the loop) and watch the picture float by horizontally and see if the crawl rate looks stable or has a jitter on it. As I recall in the 5153 at least, if the H sync coupling capacitor is disconnected (removed from the board) from the H scan processor IC, there is still just enough sync coupling by stray capacitance for the H scan oscillator to barely lock, and this is a method by which the correct setting of the H oscillators hold control(the free running H scan frequency can be made) and the the phase control adjusted after that once the capacitor is re-inserted.


If you read page 30 to 32, section 6 of this article (about the AFC in the 5153, which is essentially the same as in the 5154 and all color VDU's) it explains it better than I can here in a post:


As noted in the text there can be combinations of setting of the H hold and H phase controls that might look ok on the screen, but they would be less stable than when the correct combination is present.

Likely though, out of all the things that could be wrong, the power supply stability is in question, so it needs to be examined with the scope.

It will be interesting to see if the replacement 270pF capacitor helps or not.
 
I replaced all caps in PSU so believe that is not a longer problem.

Can we deduct (based that CGA mode works well) which exact elements related to H-Scan should I desolder for checking/replacing? As I am not so familiar with repairing such devices
 
I replaced all caps in PSU so believe that is not a longer problem.

Can we deduct (based that CGA mode works well) which exact elements related to H-Scan should I desolder for checking/replacing? As I am not so familiar with repairing such devices

De-soldering and checking parts is not a road that will lead to a repair solution in most cases, not for a vdu like this. If it does, it is only by luck or accident, not proper fault finding technique.

Just because you have replaced caps in the PSU, does nor guarantee it is working properly. Caps are not the only causes of problems. You still need to scope the power supply rails.

There are no "exact elements" that should be de-soldered or replaced.

It is a matter of checking with the scope to diagnose the problem.

The IC 201 on the 5154 schematic, a 4053 analog multiplexer is used to select the 4 presets pots (H phase & H hold settings) for the two scanning standards. This IC feeds the IC200 (TDA2593), the Horizontal processor IC, this is the area, including the power supply to it, which needs to be scoped. It is a moderately complex circuit because of the dual standard function. It would pay to look up the data sheet on the TDA2593.

It has still not been determined yet if the problem is in the scanning raster or the video wrt sync timing. It might be possible by manipulating the potentiometer RT251 (H centering control) to see one edge of the scanning raster with the brightness turned up.
 
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Sorry to derail but since Hugo is here I'll go ahead and ask:

I have a 5154 that works perfectly in 200 line mode but loses sync in 350 line mode. Any suggestions on where to start testing?
 
Sorry to derail but since Hugo is here I'll go ahead and ask:

I have a 5154 that works perfectly in 200 line mode but loses sync in 350 line mode. Any suggestions on where to start testing?
Does it lose H sync, or V sync or both ? Most likely H sync.

There is a detector that looks at the polarity of the vertical sync to auto switch it between EGA and CGA modes, and that creates a DC control line that determines the frequency of the H oscillator by selecting the correct H hold and H phase pots that control the H oscillators running frequency. So it is a matter of checking that circuit that when the vdu is is fed with the CGA signal , the H osc is running at 15.75kHz and when fed with a EGA signal it is running at 21.85kHz and the appropriate pots are selected.

The incoming vertical sync pulse is buffered and fed into an RC integrator . Because the pulse in narrow (low duty cycle) when filtered the negative going pulse simply assumes close to logic high in EGA mode. In CGA mode (a positive going sync) the waveform,on the average, has a low DC level so the filtered voltage has a logic low. In the 5154 they just feed that to an XOR gate wired as an inverter and then to a transistor which inverts it again and creates the DC control line called SYNC that controls which preset pots are selected by the 4053 IC's. The same control line operates another 4053 to select different pairs of H size presets and V size (height) presets, depending on which mode the VDU is in. These selected preset pots are so the VDU can be adjusted to have the correct height and width, H. hold and H. phase in each mode.

Therefore if the VDU works ok in one mode and not the other (and the signals it is fed with are normal) it is either not changing modes (defective SYNC control line) or one of the 4053 IC's that is controlled by the SYNC line is not selecting the correct preset pot or the preset pot is incorrectly set.
 
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Thank you that's great information. I'll start by checking the level of this SYNC control line and go from there
 
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