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Ibm 5170 + hma

Swedish & US layout

Swedish & US layout

Don't feel bad. I have a hard time with the US keyboard layout, and what excuse do I have ? I tried Dvorak once, but decided that retraining my carefully honed hunt-and-peck skills on QWERTY into, well, whatever QWERTY is in Dvorak, just wouldn't be practical.

So how does the Swedish layout differ over QWERTY ? The only other one I know is QWERTZ (German). How's your first row ? Where did they stick all the special characters ?
patscc
 
patscc said:
Don't feel bad. I have a hard time with the US keyboard layout, and what excuse do I have ? I tried Dvorak once, but decided that retraining my carefully honed hunt-and-peck skills on QWERTY into, well, whatever QWERTY is in Dvorak, just wouldn't be practical.

So how does the Swedish layout differ over QWERTY ? The only other one I know is QWERTZ (German). How's your first row ? Where did they stick all the special characters ?
patscc
Click to expand...

The alphabet and number characters don't differ so much but the special characters were a nightmare to find since the differ quite much from the US layout.
It took a while before I found the "\" and "*"
The backslash was at the "~" button :confused:
 
\~

\~

I realize this thread is starting to wander, but I have to know.
What do you have where the '\' would be on the US keyboard (left from backspace [ <- ]) ?
In general, though, does the layout match what you would expect to find on a Swedish typewriter ?

patscc
 
patscc said:
I realize this thread is starting to wander, but I have to know.
What do you have where the '\' would be on the US keyboard (left from backspace [ <- ]) ?
In general, though, does the layout match what you would expect to find on a Swedish typewriter ?

patscc
Click to expand...

lol, what..has the thread left it's topic? :mrgreen:
I know it wondered off in geek-teritory also when people started discussing how EMS/XMS and good knows what works hehe

can't remember what was on the button next to backspace, have hardly used a typewriter so can't answer to that either...
 
Typewriter

Typewriter

Feel a lot better now.
Though I'd throw out 'typewriter' to show how cosmoplitan I am.
Very happy to hear that like me, you cant really tell a typewriter from a Yak on the ground.
Skol.
patscc
 
MikeS said:
---------
Huh? So you're saying that EMS memory addressing just continues on above 1 MB, adding address lines up to 32MB as it goes along? How does the CPU access this?
Click to expand...
No, EMS addressing remains within the pageframe in upper memory. The EMS driver just bank-switches blocks of memory from above 1Mb into that pageframe, so that the 8086/8 CPU and DOS are able to 'see' it, just as if it were actually located in conventional or upper memory. (The terms 'conventional' & 'upper' memory are DOS terms, the 80xx makes no such distinction).
And you can't have DOS in HIMEM when you use EMS memory?
Click to expand...
Don't panic! The answer is yes, or no, depending on your EMS hard/software. Some boards allow it, while others don't. The ones that do allow it simply reserve the first 64K above 1Mb, but if you don't use it, ya lose it.
Not thinking of extended memory by any chance?
Click to expand...
Who're you accusing of thinking?

--T
 
Terry Yager said:
No, EMS addressing remains within the pageframe in upper memory. The EMS driver just bank-switches blocks of memory from above 1Mb into that pageframe, so that the 8086/8 CPU and DOS are able to 'see' it, just as if it were actually located in conventional or upper memory.
Click to expand...
"memory from above 1Mb" implies memory that is CPU addressable above the 1 MB mark. The 8088 can't address above 1 MB.

If I acquire a 2MB 8-bit EMS card for my 5150, fit it but don't load any of the drivers for the card, the 2MB is 'hidden'. The 2MB is just a bunch of RAM sitting on the EMS card isolated from the 8088 CPU (and any other devices) by circuitry on the EMS card.
When I then load the card specific EMS driver, the EMS driver (being aware of the particular EMS card) bank-switches blocks of the 2MB memory into the EMS page frame as requested. Unused blocks and in-use blocks that are swapped out, are not accessible by the 8088 CPU.

Your "bank-switches blocks of memory from above 1Mb into that pageframe" is better worded as "bank-switches blocks of memory from the EMS memory source into that pageframe".
 
Dat's what I meant, but it's difficult to explain to someone unfamiliar with the scheme without using terms like 'above 1Mb', especially since many of the manuals for such boards use similar terminology.

--T
 
Well, that was my (missed) point; I think I understand EMS pretty well, and was just questioning T's statement that EMS memory conflicted with high memory because EMS is "physically located" above 1MB; it's not "located" anywhere in the PC's address space at all, except when pages are mapped into the frame..
Extended memory *is* located in the upper address space, but not very useful for <386

mike
 
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