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IBM PC/XT Late Model Disk Drives

G

Great Hierophant

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Hello,

I am interested to know the identity of the disk drives, both hard and floppy (or fixed and diskette to IBM) that would have shipped with the late model IBM PC/XTs. I had an IBM XT with two half height 360K floppy drives in it, and one half-height hard drive with a full height faceplate attached to it. One of the floppy drives I threw out after I discovered it would not read (foolish, I should have tried cleaning and testing first). The floppy drive I kept is an Alps Model, DFC 222B02A, and has proven to be very reliable. The other drive I remember as using a different floppy PCB with more surface mounted chips than the Alps. The Alps drive does NOT have an IBM faceplate, does this mean it is an aftermarket addon?

The hard drive is a Seagate ST-225 20MB drive. Considering IBM used an ST-412 in its 10MB XT models, this would seem a reasonable upgrade on their part. Is it what they used? The hard drive controller it came with was an WD-1002A-WX1, which is not what it originally came with. (The Xebec 1210 is what should be in there, but because it is so slow I am sure the end user upgraded.)

I know IBM offered an internal 3.5" drive in the XT, but does anyone know which brand they used and whether the drives had a black or beige/white faceplate? IBM logo?

I believe that 20MB XT models only came with one 5.25" drive standard. A second drive was a customer upgrade.
 
Great Hierophant said:
The hard drive is a Seagate ST-225 20MB drive. Considering IBM used an ST-412 in its 10MB XT models, this would seem a reasonable upgrade on their part. Is it what they used?
Click to expand...
I first saw the use of IBM WD25 (full height) and then ST-225. I'm sure that if I go look at the 20 MB drive schematics that IBM provided, they'll match the WD25. So the question becomes, were the ST-225s supplied by IBM, or did an IBM dealer add them?

Great Hierophant said:
I know IBM offered an internal 3.5" drive in the XT, but does anyone know which brand they used and whether the drives had a black or beige/white faceplate? IBM logo?
Click to expand...
I can't answer the question, but according to Mueller's 'Upgrading and Repairing PCs' (first edition), both an internal 720K drive (part number 6450258) and external 720K drive (part number 2683190) were options for the 1986 models. Maybe those part numbers can help you.

Great Hierophant said:
I believe that 20MB XT models only came with one 5.25" drive standard. A second drive was a customer upgrade.
Click to expand...
According to my information, on Sept 9, 1986, IBM released 6 models of the XT of which two included the 20 MB drive. Those two have two drives:
5160 model 267 - 256K RAM, one half height 360K, standard keyboard
5160 model 268 - 256K RAM, one half height 360K, enhanced keyboard
5160 model 277 - 256K RAM, two half height 360K, standard keyboard
5160 model 278 - 256K RAM, two half height 360K, enhanced keyboard
5160 model 088 - 512K RAM, two half height 360K, 20MB HDD, standard keyboard
5160 model 089 - 512K RAM, two half height 360K, 20MB HDD, enhanced keyboard
 
modem7 said:
I first saw the use of IBM WD25 (full height) and then ST-225. I'm sure that if I go look at the 20 MB drive schematics that IBM provided, they'll match the WD25. So the question becomes, were the ST-225s supplied by IBM, or did an IBM dealer add them?


I can't answer the question, but according to Mueller's 'Upgrading and Repairing PCs' (first edition), both an internal 720K drive (part number 6450258) and external 720K drive (part number 2683190) were options for the 1986 models. Maybe those part numbers can help you.


According to my information, on Sept 9, 1986, IBM released 6 models of the XT of which two included the 20 MB drive. Those two have two drives:
5160 model 267 - 256K RAM, one half height 360K, standard keyboard
5160 model 268 - 256K RAM, one half height 360K, enhanced keyboard
5160 model 277 - 256K RAM, two half height 360K, standard keyboard
5160 model 278 - 256K RAM, two half height 360K, enhanced keyboard
5160 model 088 - 512K RAM, two half height 360K, 20MB HDD, standard keyboard
5160 model 089 - 512K RAM, two half height 360K, 20MB HDD, enhanced keyboard
Click to expand...

I looked at Mueller, his information is that the 20MB models of the XT came only with one 360K drive, half height.
 
Chuck(G) said:
Are you referring to the 720K floppy drive on the XT?

Actually, all of these questions can be answered with a glance at the O&A manuals. Do you have a set?
Click to expand...

I wish I had, but who would have a set printed after September, 1986?
 
You mean the 720k drives in late XTs (and ATs) with the black faceplates and blue buttons? Those were Alps drives. The PS/2 floppies were also Alps, but the XT/AT ones (the 5150 was never offered with internal 3.5" drives) used a separate power cable and not the combo data/power ones.

The external 4865 drives are also Alps units. They all have the same style of eject button.
 
Fallo said:
You mean the 720k drives in late XTs (and ATs) with the black faceplates and blue buttons? Those were Alps drives. The PS/2 floppies were also Alps, but the XT/AT ones (the 5150 was never offered with internal 3.5" drives) used a separate power cable and not the combo data/power ones.
Click to expand...

Same drive, however. The 720K drive for the XT/AT used an adapter card to go from the 40-pin signal-plus-power drive connector to the separate 34-position-signal and 4 pin power connectors of the XT and AT.
 
Can anyone identify the Alps drive model used on the 720K IBM drives?

It is also possible that the XT I originally got did not have a hard drive installed and was added afterwards.
 
Great Hierophant said:
I looked at Mueller, his information is that the 20MB models of the XT came only with one 360K drive, half height.
Click to expand...
My list was compiled by me years ago. I tried to see if I could find the source of my "two". Yes, Mueller indicates one, and the list at http://mastodonpc.tripod.com/ibm/type.html also indicates one. Unless I can find something that contradicts that, one it is. I'll revise my compiled list.

Great Hierophant said:
I wish I had, but who would have a set printed after September, 1986?
Click to expand...
I have an O&A set. Mine doesn't have any sections on 3.5" drives, but has sections on 5.25" drives (FH DSDD, HH DSDD, HH DSDD in 5170, HH DSHD in 5170). For the sections on 5.25" drives, there are no brand/model names shown. A comparison of included schematics to possible brand/models might reveal at least one brand/model that was used (probably the first used). I expect that this scenario would be same had my O&A set included 3.5" drives.

Great Hierophant said:
It is also possible that the XT I originally got did not have a hard drive installed and was added afterwards.
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
Most of the 1986 XTs I see have Seagate ST-225 fitted.

Regarding the 720k option for the XT, they were identical to the ones found in PS/2 models 30,50,80 and 5140 PC convertible. They are made by several manufacturers, including sony, alps, toshiba and I believe mitsubishi as well.

I do not have the 720k option for the XT, but I do have it for the AT. It is essentially the same kit with a grey faceplate, and I believe it was ALPs. In any case, for 3.5" full height drives, the ALPs models seem to be the least reliable of the bunch.
 
Anonymous Coward said:
Most of the 1986 XTs I see have Seagate ST-225 fitted.

Regarding the 720k option for the XT, they were identical to the ones found in PS/2 models 30,50,80 and 5140 PC convertible. They are made by several manufacturers, including sony, alps, toshiba and I believe mitsubishi as well.

I do not have the 720k option for the XT, but I do have it for the AT. It is essentially the same kit with a grey faceplate, and I believe it was ALPs. In any case, for 3.5" full height drives, the ALPs models seem to be the least reliable of the bunch.
Click to expand...

The 720K drives themselves, did they use pin connectors or card edge connectors? Standard 4-pin Molex, 4-pin mini-Molex or power-in-drive cable on the drive with a Molex connector on the adapter?
 
Great Hierophant said:
The 720K drives themselves, did they use pin connectors or card edge connectors? Standard 4-pin Molex, 4-pin mini-Molex or power-in-drive cable on the drive with a Molex connector on the adapter?
Click to expand...

They used edge connectors with standard Molex plugs. The pin connectors and mini plugs didn't appear until 386s were commonplace. Real 720k drives with edge connectors (such as the Alps ones) are hard to find. I've seen them on Ebay before, but only in online stores for huge prices (typically $200-$300).
 
I have one of those 720K drives, it's a genuine IBM drive
I purchased around 1988. I think this was made for
the XT but I bought this to add to my PCjr as a second
drive in an external case. For some reason held onto it
all these years. I tested this in my AT awhile back and it
works fine.

The drive itself is made by Toshiba, so I think they may
have sourced the drive from several manufacturers.

Here's a couple of pictures.
 

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Great Hierophant said:
The 720K drives themselves, did they use pin connectors or card edge connectors? Standard 4-pin Molex, 4-pin mini-Molex or power-in-drive cable on the drive with a Molex connector on the adapter?
Click to expand...

Some 720k drives are card edge but most of them are pin connectors known as IDE connector. As I said in the other post, in the old days, we have ribbon cable which had both card edge and IDE connectors. So you can swap all kind of floppy drives.

Dougtronics
 
mikey99 said:
I have one of those 720K drives, it's a genuine IBM drive
I purchased around 1988. I think this was made for
the XT but I bought this to add to my PCjr as a second
drive in an external case. For some reason held onto it
all these years. I tested this in my AT awhile back and it
works fine.

The drive itself is made by Toshiba, so I think they may
have sourced the drive from several manufacturers.

Here's a couple of pictures.
Click to expand...

Thank you, now I know visually what to look for. Interestingly, the drive's edge connector is 40-pins, just like some of the early PS/2 drives.

Some 720k drives are card edge but most of them are pin connectors known as IDE connector. As I said in the other post, in the old days, we have ribbon cable which had both card edge and IDE connectors. So you can swap all kind of floppy drives.

Dougtronics
Click to expand...

The pin connector is like an IDE connector, but is known as a floppy cable connector. IDE cables use 40 pins and the signals are vastly different. The Universal Floppy Drive cable, with both pin and card connectors for the drives usually lacks a card connector to plug into controllers using a card connector (like IBM's.)
 
modem7 said:
http://mastodonpc.tripod.com/ibm/type.html
Click to expand...

I've set up a timeline of the XT models according to that list:
Code: 
	1983       1984        1985        1986        1987        1988
	|----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|
	  087								(128Kb RAM, 1FH FDD @ 360Kb, 1FH HDD @ 10Mb)
	  +-------------+
	                086						(256Kb RAM, 1FH FDD @ 360Kb, 1FH HDD @ 10Mb)
	                +---------------------------------+
	                          068					(256Kb RAM, 1FH FDD @ 360Kb)
	                          +-----------------------+
	                          078					(256Kb RAM, 2FH FDD @ 360Kb)
	                          +-----------------------+
	                                      088			(512Kb RAM, 2HH FDD @ 360Kb, 1HH HDD @ 20Mb)
	                                      +---------?????
	                                      089			(512Kb RAM, 2HH FDD @ 360Kb, 1HH HDD @ 20Mb, Enchanted Keyboard)
	                                      +-------------+
	                                      267			(256Kb RAM, 1HH FDD @ 360Kb)
	                                      +---------?????
	                                      268			(256Kb RAM, 1HH FDD @ 360Kb, Enchanted Keyboard)
	                                      +-------------+
	                                      277			(256Kb RAM, 2HH FDD @ 360Kb)
	                                      +---------?????
	                                      278			(256Kb RAM, 2HH FDD @ 360Kb, Enchanted Keyboard)
	                                      +-------------+

I only got 087 and 078, so I can't really help telling if the ST-225 drive was used as the standard HDD for the later models.

However, I can tell that my 087 has been upgraded to contain just a ST-225 and a WD-1002A-WX1, so my guess is that it was at least a common setup.
 
An oldish thread, but an interesting one.

I have a rather late 1987 XT that was purchased by an employee of IBM when they were selling them off cheap. That has a half-height drive in an (IBM logo'd) full-height frame - the HDD sits at the "upper" drive bay. I can't remember the exact drive model, but I have a feeling it is an ST225 with different stickers on it. I'll dig that out tomorrow and check. The system is totally original and has never been messed with.

I also have 2 or 3 late 1986 XTs (with the full-size Model M keyboards), but they have the FH WD25 drives.

Where did the Aussie machines come from? The US ones were assembled in New York, whereas the European ones were assembled in Scotland.

I think the IBM XT/286 (5162) has this same drive, in an AT version, but I can't check mine as doesn't have the original drive! However, when I fitted a "proper" ST225 in my 5162, the drive indicator light stays lit all the time. It also doesn't have a pinout for an external drive LED.

The full-height frames are the same in the late XT and the 5162, although the XT has a red LED, the 5162 has a yellow one.

Jorg has a 5162 with an original drive, maybe he can check his :D

P1030354.JPG
 
dongfeng said:
Where did the Aussie machines come from? The US ones were assembled in New York, whereas the European ones were assembled in Scotland.
Click to expand...
In 1975, IBM built a manufacturing plant in Wangaratta. It lasted 21 years.

From the Internet:
"The Wangaratta plant is one of three IBM plants worldwide to build RS/6000 machines, one of four plants worldwide to build desktop PCs, one of nine to build electronic circuit boards and the only one to produce the three ranges from the one site. According to IBM, it contributed more than 80 per cent of IBM's record 1995 hardware, software and services export figure of $626 million."

I now have a 5150 and a 5160 that have 'Manufactured by IBM Australia Ltd, Wangaratta, Australia' on the main rear label.

According to the following link, the manufacture of PCs and XTs didn't start in Australia until 1984. Also, some were sent to New Zealand.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...xoRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=5JQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3771,6397147
 
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