Identifying an Apple ][ board

[CommodoreZ]

Greetings! It's been awhile since I posted. Seems that a friend of mine gave me a present from his house as they were cleaning it out before moving. To my surprise, it was an Apple II motherboard in surprisingly good condition. Dust was minimal, and there was only one dead ladybug stuck to it. However I'm not exactly an Apple guy and my knowledge is limited when it comes to the II. So I have no idea whether or not I'm looking at a II or a II+ board here.

Here are the details I could glean from the board:
Copyright 1978
Rev 4
820-0001-04 (on the back between the expansion slots)
8015 (In the corner next to the power plug, hand written in a white box)

Here's the top and bottom overview:


And here are a few detail shots of the top side of the board


My goal here is to really know what it is that I have. Maybe some time down the road I might feel compelled to dig up a power supply & keyboard and maybe see if it will fire up. However, I'm not familiar enough with Apple II's to know if the II and II+ use different power supplies or keyboards. Again, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it (or rather when my wallet is up to it).

 

[david__schmidt]

Here are the details I could glean from the board:
Copyright 1978

They all say that.

Rev 4

You have a Rev 4 board.

820-0001-04 (on the back between the expansion slots)

Again, Rev 4.

8015 (In the corner next to the power plug, hand written in a white box)

Stuffed in 1980, 15th week.

During this time, Apple was selling both II and II+ systems from the same stock - the only difference was the ROM that was stuffed in it. Integer in ROM, it's a II. Applesoft in ROM, it's a II+. With the leftmost ROM number 341-0020, your board is currently a II+.

 

[DFinnigan]

Note to david__schmidt: I realize you know all of what I'm going to say. This is for the benefit of the OP.

Copyright 1978

They all say that.

Most say that. The earliest boards, revision 0, say Copyright 1977.

With the leftmost ROM number 341-0020, your board is currently a II+.

Not so fast, bub. That's the Autostart Monitor ROM which was released in mid-1978. More than a few early II systems will have Integer BASIC and the Autostart ROM.

An Apple II Plus has the Autostart ROM and Applesoft, which it appears this system does. My point is that one should look at more than just the F8 ROM.

A "pure" Apple II has the Old Monitor ROM and Integer BASIC. But I'd still count a system with Integer BASIC and Autostart as a II.

 

[david__schmidt]

My point is that one should look at more than just the F8 ROM.

Quite so. That was simply the only one I was able to read.

 

[Wayne Stewart]

If all the ROM sockets are filled then it's pretty much guaranteed to be a II+

 

[KC9UDX]

Without the case (especially the lid) does it really matter if it started out as a ][ or a ][+? I saw plenty of ]['s get upgraded to autostart and Applesoft.

Power supplies and keyboards, at least as far as how they plug into the motherboard, are the same. You won't run into any problems there.

In fact, power supplies are the same in the //e, and some ||GS's. In fact, GS's can be had on the cheap, and even the power supplies from those that are different are really easy to convert.

Only keyboards from ]['s or ][+'s will work, without modification. Somewhere I saw a PS/2 keyboard interface for Apple, but it may have been //e. If it was for ][ or ][+, that may be a solution for you.

Also, somewhere, I have plans I put together for installing a VIC II and SID in an Apple. I never did do it, but you may consider it. It's easy to do. :D

 

[Holmes]

I noticed on these expansion slots there are no mounting holes on the ends. Did the revision 4 boards have these types of expansion slot?

I've seen some motherboards that look just like this, except the expansion slot hardware has the mounting holes.

 

[KC9UDX]

I wonder why there is an Apple ][+ motherboard without a case. The only reason that normally happens is that it is defective and was replaced, right?

 

[Wayne Stewart]

I've got a couple of fully functioning II+ motherboards. I always thought they were common enough but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[KC9UDX]

I've got a couple of fully functioning II+ motherboards. I always thought they were common enough but maybe I'm wrong.

Where did the cases go? Did Apple sell the boards separate at some point?

 

[david__schmidt]

Where did the cases go? Did Apple sell the boards separate at some point?

At first, and for a while, you could get a bare board. But of course a case could have been damaged and a user might have just removed it. There were plenty of spares floating around in the marketplace over the years, too. I have a couple of spare boards myself that I scavenge parts from.

 

[KC9UDX]

At first, and for a while, you could get a bare board. But of course a case could have been damaged and a user might have just removed it. There were plenty of spares floating around in the marketplace over the years, too. I have a couple of spare boards myself that I scavenge parts from.

That's good to know; I had never encountered that.

I did disassemble my //e at one point. I couldn't fit the wedge-shaped case into my computer 'desk'. So, I ran it all disassembled standing on end on the floor, with an extension cable for the keyboard. I've been trying to piece that all back together for about 20 years(!). The only thing I still can't find is the internal keyboard cable.

 

[CommodoreZ]

Thank you all for the useful information on my II motherboard. Now knowing that I have a wider variety of power supplies to try, I may begin looking for one along with a keyboard.

As for why I have a bare board, no case, I haven't a clue. Did Apple allow for upgrades back in the day? Like, where they pull the old board and put in something better (i.e. II+ -> IIe)? I know you could get a IIe turned into a IIGS. I'm actually really impressed at the distinct lack of dust, grime, or cobwebs. Obviously there was the ladybug that I mentioned before, but that was easily removed.

Also, somewhere, I have plans I put together for installing a VIC II and SID in an Apple. I never did do it, but you may consider it. It's easy to do. :D

I've actually seen a SID chip installation once at the VCF East 7.0 in 2011. It was rather impressive, but they only had 2 songs to demo. I thought it sounded pretty good, all things considered.

 

[KC9UDX]

Did Apple allow for upgrades back in the day? Like, where they pull the old board and put in something better (i.e. II+ -> IIe)? I know you could get a IIe turned into a IIGS.

Yes, but you always had to turn your machine in to them for the upgrade. It would come back different. If you had a + upgraded to an e, they would swap out the entire computer, and try to act as if some part of it was yours originally. Maybe the power supply was original.

I always wondered where all the old ones went. All the ][s really started disappearing when the e upgrade came along.

I've actually seen a SID chip installation once at the VCF East 7.0 in 2011. It was rather impressive, but they only had 2 songs to demo. I thought it sounded pretty good, all things considered.

A long time ago, I saw an original //e (white on brown keys) which had two SIDs and a VIC II. It seemed very weird; like seeing a PET with colour.

 

[mwillegal]

There are exceptions to every rule. I once worked for a company that had enough Macintoshes that they managed to get qualified to do their own service. The guy running the service operations helped me get a good deal on upgrading my 128K mac (which I had upgraded myself to 512K) to a plus. He let me keep the old motherboard.

regards,
Mike Willegal