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Lo-Tech TRS-80 IDE Adapter - Issues

K

Kevin Williams

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
73
Location
Fort Worth, TX
Hi Everyone,

As many of you may know, James Pearce has licensed several of his boards to our store and we recently worked with him to offer the Lo-Tech TRS-80 IDE adapter. We finally got our PCBs in and we built several out. Before we list them however, I was planning to test them. Unfortunately, it has been quite awhile since we worked on these and I seem to have lost the disk image I made to work on my Model 4 NGA Gen 2. I had originally bought 4 from him about 2 years ago, and tested them at the time. I used one in a Model II with Hans's adapter, and the other three sat around as I sorta forgot about them. We listed those about two months back, and they sold really quickly. I did test them a few years back, but now, I cannot seem to get the drives to format on the new boards we built.

I followed the directions James posted by Matt Wing (Firebox) on his wiki: https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo-tech_TRS-80_IDE_Adapter_rev.2

I was able to get the files moved over to an LS-DOS boot disk and type the following:
SYSTEM(DRIVE=4,DISABLE,DRIVER="HDDVR6/DCT")

All goes well until the end it says: Note: Drive appears to be unformatted.

Initially, I was like, yeah, I haven't formatted it yet, so I didn't think too much of it.

However, the next step is to run HDFORM6 which ultimately yields: Data record not found during write.

I do see the activity light flashing briefly, but failure. I've tried a few old 120meg-250meg IDE drives, 256mb Sandisk CF cards, and a few 128mb DOMs which I'm almost certain worked before.

I would really like to get these guys out there, but I want to make sure we didn't do something silly. They're fairly simple boards so I can't imagine what we would have done wrong. I'm using a cable I use all of the time with my FreHD, so I don't think there is a cabling issue. It seems pretty odd to me, but maybe I just don't have a supported disk?

BTW, I've tried using a disk with no partitions & some that had a fat-16 part on them already. Interestingly, it says that there is data on the disk when a part is present, so it really seems like it's seeing the disk.

Any thoughts? I spent the better part of yesterday afternoon trying everything that makes sense.

Thanks so much!
-Kevin Williams
https://texelec.com
 
A Reply.

The following devices have been tested by Ray(Audronic), Hans01 & myself and have been found to work reliably when booting directly off the Lo-Tech-TRS-80-IDE-Adapter.
Hard Drives
Fujitsu MPE3170AT 17 GIG
Fujitsu MHV2040AH 2.5"
Fujitsu SATA HMV2080BH 80 Gig 2.5"
IBM Travelstar DARA-212000 2.5"
Maxtor 90432D3 Hda/Up Level 03a
Maxtor 31536H2 LBA 15 Gig HDA 02a
Maxtor 5T020H2 20 Gig
Maxtor 541DX 5400 RPM 20 Gig Ultra ATA/100 Maxtor 32049H2 20 .4 Gig AT HDA 02a
Maxtor 92049U3 20.4 Gig HDA 03a (Apple Branded) Maxtor 40 Gig
Quantum Fireball 10 Gig QOLID655T0026 (Apple Branded) Quantum Fireball 20.4 AT LD20A014-01-A
Samsung SV1021H/GTS - 10 Gig
Samsung SV2001H 20 Gig LBA,39,179,952
Western Digital 36400 Enhanced IDE 6 Gig Western Digital WD200BB - 75AUA1 20 Gig Western Digital WD800JB - 00CRA1 80 Gig Western Digital WD1200JB - 00EVA0 120 Gig
CF Cards
Most CF cards tested will not boot from the Lo-Tech-TRS-80-IDE-Adapter but will work reliably when booted from floppy.
The Apacer 2GB 133x P/N AP2GCF133 and the Kingston 4GB 9904524-001.A01LF
have been found to work reliably when booting directly off the Lo-Tech-TRS-80-IDE-Adapter.
IDE Disk-On-Module (DOM)
64Meg DOM and 128Meg DOM PQI Brand have been tested by Hans01 and Ray(Audronic) and found to work reliably. Of all the devices tested the DOMs may be the best option for booting the TRS-80 4P directly from the Lo-Tech-TRS-80-IDE-Adapter.
1
The following devices will not allow booting directly off the Lo-Tech-TRS-80-IDE-Adapter but in some cases may work OK after booting from floppy.
Maxtor 71336A 1.3 Gig
Seagate ST3243A 214 Meg Seagate ST36812a 6.8 Gig U10 Seagate ST37510A 7.5 Gig Seagate ST340823e 40 Gig Seagate ST380011A 80 Gig
Western Digital Caviar 1425 426.8 meg
CF Cards
Most CF cards will not boot from the Lo-Tech-TRS-80-IDE-Adapter but will work reliably when booted from floppy.
SD-IDE Adapters
I have not been able to get these cards to boot off the Lo-Tech-TRS-80-IDE-Adapter but they seem to work reliably when booted from floppy.

Ray
 
Thanks for your response Ray. I'm not actually trying to auto-boot, just format. I'm not using a 4P, just a Model 4. I guess I need to know if the errors I'm getting are normal, or is that a result of not having a compatible disk? I get the error Note:disk appears to be unformatted on everything I've tried, then HDFORM6 says: Data Record not found during write when it starts @ track 0. Am I just doing this wrong? I think I did have a PQI module before, but I sold that with my Model II some time back, but I do have some other 128mb DOM modules which work great on a regular PC-based lo-tech IDE CF.

Thank!
-Kevin
 
Hi Kevin

Its years ago that Gazza and i worked on these.

I would stick with the DOMs as the drive to do the tests.
Also ask James Pearce for some help.

IMPORTANT :- Make sure that PIN 1 Is correctly identified on the DOM.

Ray
 
I've found the following helps a lot for CF & SD cards on Tandy 1000's and Amiga's:

Use a Compact Flash / SD reader on a Windows PC.

1. Put the Compact Flash / SD in the reader and open an elevated command prompt. "Right click and Run as administrator"
2. Type Diskpart.
3. Type List Disk. "Find the number for your CF/SD card"
4. Type Select Disk "" <--- Your CF/SD card number.
5. Type Clean

Once this is done you can move over to your Tandy or Amiga and partition then format the drive without issues - this process removes literally everything from the Flash Card including boot sectors etc.
 
Hey, Thanks for the tip, unfortunately this didn't help. Hmm.. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. I ordered a PQI DOM, should be here tomorrow so I'll give it a shot. I'm not too hopeful, but I'm ready to give it a try again.

Thanks everyone,
-Kevin
 
Hello Again,

Well, I'm getting the same error with the PQI DOM that I have with every other device I have tried. This is the same device I used on a Model II and it worked great. Does anyone have a disk image for a Model 4 DOM that I could try? I can't seem to get a partition to create, and I'm really at a loss as to why. I've tried 10 different cards we built, all with the correct parts, polarity, etc to no avail. I have also tried about 5 different cables which all work great on the FreHD. I'm really at a loss as to what else to try. Any more ideas? BTW, I did reach out to James Pearce, but he has been super-busy lately.

Thanks!
-Kevin
 
Hi Hans,

Thanks so much for your response! I tried this, but I get an error telling me the drive slot is already in use. My config only show drive 0 & 1. After I use enable, drive 4 shows up as "no disk" until a reboot. HDFORM6 seems to think its a floppy. I had sysgened my one of my test disks awhile back while testing, but I reverted to a clean build and tried this command. I don't even see it hitting the IDE adaptor. When I use disable. the lo-tech blinks for a brief second.

Thanks,
-Kevin
 
@Kevin Williams

Have you modified your Lo-Tech for the Model II with the 74HCT640N for U2, this is only for a Model II and hans-01 combo.
For a Model 4 or a Modell with a hans-02 you have to use a 74HCT245N for U2.

It is possible that you use a disk from Ian that is setup for a FreHD with 6 harddisks and two floppies.

Try:

SYSTEM(DRIVE=4,DISABLE)
SYSTEM(DRIVE=5,DISABLE)
SYSTEM(DRIVE=6,DISABLE)
SYSTEM(DRIVE=7,DISABLE)
AUTO
SYSGEN (NO)
Reboot
Type now
SYSTEM(DRIVE=4,ENABLE,DRIVER="HDDVR6/DCT")

What do you get when you type DEVICE ?
 
Hi Hans,

I am actually trying this on a Model 4 non gate-array. I socketed the 245 so when we ultimately sell these, it will be easy for folks to switch it to a 640 if needed. I just used a vanilla LS-DOS boot disk, no config on it at all that is not meant for the FreHD, and copied the hddvr6/dct & hdform6/dct files over. That being said, I'll gave your suggestion a try and still net the same results unfortunately. Device only shows Disk 0 & Disk 1.

WP_20180411_002.jpg

WP_20180411_003.jpg

Thanks!
-Kevin
 
HI Kevin
I finally found the method used back in Jan 2015 By Gazza and Ray :-
-==========================================-

LSDos setup For LSDOS 6.3.1 and LDOS 5.3.1

This is a test to simulate a setup to be used with the Lo-Tech TRS-80 IDE Project
To try and setup a 1 Volume IDE Drive That will with suitable Boot Disks be able to
boot into LDos and LSDos.
The Partitions as per setup below, on the Volume are 2-3-4 for LSDos, 5-6-7 are for LDos.

Please Sysgen the settings to the BOOT FLOPPY

After you have Partitioned and formatted the Volume, you can put an LSDOS SYSTEM on Drive 2
and then after booting into LDOS and configuring the system as below WITHOUT the Format Phase, you can Then FORMAT ONLY Drive 5 and then put an LDOS SYSTEM on it.

Please Sysgen the settings to the BOOT FLOPPY

The VOLUME has 1024 Cylinders, 8 Heads, 5 Partitions 170 Cylinders 8 Heads per Partition
and 1 Partition 174 cylinders 8 Heads for the last Partition.

The naming of the drives eg :-
LSsysHD0 indicates LSDos, SYSTEM, HD0
LSdatHD1 indicates LSDos, DATA , HD1
LSdatHD2 indicates LSDos, DATA , HD2

LDOSsHD0 indicates LDos, SYSTEM , HD0
LDOSdHD1 indicates LDos, DATA , HD1
LDOSdHD2 indicates LDos, DATA , HD2
-=======================================-
system (drive=2,disable,driver="rshard6")
1
10
1024
8
8
1
170
-======-
rsform6
2
lssyshd0
password
Password
N
-=======================================-
system (drive=3,disable,driver="rshard6")
1
1
2
170
-======-
rsform6
3
lsdathd1
password
y
N
-=======================================-
system (drive=4,disable,driver="rshard6")
1
8
170
-======-
rsform6
4
lsdathd2
password
y
N
-=======================================-
system (drive=5,disable,driver="rshard6")
1
8
170
-======-
rsform6
5
ldosshd0
password
y
N
-=======================================-
system (drive=6,disable,driver="rshard6")
1
8
170
-======-
rsform6
6
ldosdhd1
password
y
N
-=======================================-
system (drive=7,disable,driver="rshard6")
1
8
174
-======-
rsform6
7
ldosdhd2
password
y
N
-=======================================-
Sysgen (on) for the BOOT Floppy

BOOT

Good luck Ray
Don't forget to SYSGEN to the BOOT Floppy
.
 
Hi Audronic,

Thanks for the info, unfortunately, the first step above is after "partitioning and formatting", which is where I'm stuck. :)

So, I finally broke down and made the CP/M disk from James's page. I didn't do this before because the HDLoader requires an extra 64k of RAM which I don't have in my Model 4. I never really plan to run CP/M on my Tandy as I usually run it my Commodore 128 if I really want to use it. :) That said, I really just want to test the IDE adaptor so I made the disk this morning and ran test, which doesn't need the extra 64k. BAM! It's running through the check now, I got an 80 back and lots of lights blinking on the Lo-Tech IDE adaptor as it "slowly" walks through the drive! I feel very confident this is going to work now, but I will have to scavenge some 4164's from something else I have sitting around and ...groan... take my Model 4 apart... again! I've taken it apart so many times now I don't know why I'm whining about it, but I always wonder, is this the time I break the monitor? :)

So obviously I was a Commodore guy myself back in the 80's and Tandy is not my strong suite. I'm really curious now if anyone has ever gotten this to work on LS-DOS on a Model 4? I assume so, but I'm completely perplexed as to what is going wrong. Currently, I licensed this board through James and want to start selling them soon, but I really like to be able to offer some support. I read through other threads out there and it looks like Al Hartman had a similar experience in the past. It was never resolved in the thread that I can see. He ultimately went with CP/M too, but can anyone tell me if they have ever gotten this to work on LS-DOS? I was going to try LDOS, but I figured it would be the same. I too had to perform some voodoo to get the hdform6 & hddvr6 files over to a single-sided disk, but it seems that it worked. That said, clearly something is not right.

At the end of the day, it's good to know the HW is working.

Thanks everyone,
-Kevin
https://texelec.com
 
Well, it looks like I didn't need the extra 64k after all. When test completed, I ran HDloader and up it came. Drive M: is present, and working! I even went back and tested the myriad of cables we built to test with and they all work just fine. pip m:=a:*.* copied everything, and I can execute files from the Lo-Tech IDE just fine.

Thanks for your help everyone & take care,
-Kevin
 
Kevin Williams said:
but can anyone tell me if they have ever gotten this to work on LS-DOS? I was going to try LDOS, but I figured it would be the same. I too had to perform some voodoo to get the hdform6 & hddvr6 files over to a single-sided disk, but it seems that it worked. That said, clearly something is not right.
Click to expand...

Yep, got it running on 2 4Pees, both LSDOS and LDOS working perfectly. Tis a problem with the Model III formatter but formating the LDOS partition with the Model IV formatter works OK.

Both 4Pees can boot LSDOS directly from the IDE. Can you post your copies of the drivers - maybe corrupted, maybe, maybe not. Apart from that I can't think what else could be causing the problems.
 
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