Micro PDP-11/23 Project - Question about rebuilding Ultrix-11 Kernel with TCPIP

[Radix]

Ah - OK, so the M8192 is just an 11/73 CPU, no serial lines or bootstrap, but it INCLUDES FP microcode...

But no provision for a boot rom...

HOWEVER - you can reconfigure the UC07 and the 11/73 to autoboot (slowly and no prompts) from DU0 - and yes, you have to configure both boards - you also need at least one DL line as a console port, but the 11/73 is about 4x faster and you get I&D space as well...

 

[peclark]

Ah - OK, so the M8192 is just an 11/73 CPU, no serial lines or bootstrap, but it INCLUDES FP microcode...

But no provision for a boot rom...

HOWEVER - you can reconfigure the UC07 and the 11/73 to autoboot (slowly and no prompts) from DU0 - and yes, you have to configure both boards - you also need at least one DL line as a console port, but the 11/73 is about 4x faster and you get I&D space as well...

I think I will give that a try - I have an M7957, assuming I can connect to the first port on that and that will be the console (after I remove the KDF11bj??

 

[Radix]

Nope - that's a DZV-11 - DZ lines not DL lines.... sorry...

 

[peclark]

Nope - that's a DZV-11 - DZ lines not DL lines.... sorry...

Thanks for saving me a ton of time Ok, I think I'll save that project for another day. I'll do some research on cards that provide DL ports and maybe look to pick one up. You have any recommendations?

The configuration of the M8192 and UC07 seem pretty simple, the UC07 manual even explains the config needed on the KDJ11-A:


I'll think I'll work on putting this box back together and just use it without ethernet for the time being. I can still get files on and off the computer by using one of the RD54 disk images on the ZuluSCSI and Simh, or serial transfers (nothing like kermit or zmodem to make you remember the way things used to be).

 

[Radix]

Yep - that's the page - didn't have it to hand... it is a very minimal bootstrap - with the slow reset of the UC07, it takes quite a few seconds to do anything at all...

The CPU will need re-jumpering to use a "normal" bootstrap at 173000

 

[Steve Toner]

I'll do some research on cards that provide DL ports and maybe look to pick one up. You have any recommendations?

An M8047 will give you two serial ports plus sockets for bootstrap ROMs and a crystal-derived LTC clock (which you can disable). It also has some RAM, which you will want to disable (see micronote 106 and configuration guide) and it should then work fine in a 22-bit system.

Otherwise, M8043 will give you four serial ports. If you only need one serial port, then an M8017 or M8028 will give you that, but only up to 9600bps

Oh, and M7195 (MXV11-B) is also like the M8047: 2 serial ports, LTC, ROM, RAM...

 

[Radix]

JMDHUSE on this thread:

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has produced a MXV11-B / BDV11 bootstrap board which works really well and it is about 1,000,000 times easier to configure than a DEC MXV11-B - although it is a half length (and width) board, so you can fit it in the bottom slot and forget it... That and a DEC DLV11-J (M8047) will give you really flexible boot and 4 DL type serial ports and will work for any QBus system - but note there are very early DLV11-J boards that do not work as console in faster systems like a 11/73 - the later boards have a discreet transistor at the edge connector end of the board, 1 row of chips in, in the middle

 

[peclark]

JMDHUSE on this thread:

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has produced a MXV11-B / BDV11 bootstrap board which works really well and it is about 1,000,000 times easier to configure than a DEC MXV11-B - although it is a half length (and width) board, so you can fit it in the bottom slot and forget it... That and a DEC DLV11-J (M8047) will give you really flexible boot and 4 DL type serial ports and will work for any QBus system - but note there are very early DLV11-J boards that do not work as console in faster systems like a 11/73 - the later boards have a discreet transistor at the edge connector end of the board, 1 row of chips in, in the middle

I was just doing some research on how to get the qbone to autostart my memory service when the computer is turned on, and I noticed this note at the bottom of one of the FAQ pages...

Using the serial ports​

The UniBone PCB exposes 2 (of 4) serial ports.

Pin header "UART1" is Linux device "/dev/ttyS1", "UART2" is "/dev/ttyS2".

Both serial ports can be configured for Linux-auto-login, or for use by a simulated PDP-11 SLU (DL11).

To configure a port (here ttyS2) for auto login (default):

ln -sf /lib/systemd/system/getty@.service /etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/getty@ttyS2.service
reboot

To configure for use by DL11 emulator:

rm /etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/getty@ttyS2.service
Then reboot.

So, now I'm thinking maybe I don't need another card that implements the DL ports - maybe I can use the QBone, and wire the serial ports to the cabinet kit on the back of the PDP-11.

 

[peclark]

So I gave the 11/73 CPU card a try, and I was successfully able to boot to ODT, but I didn't have access to my UC07 - and I'm pretty sure my problem is that I need a grant card. My KDF11-BJ CPU takes the full slot, but the 11/73 only takes half the slot - and from what I've read, you need a grant continuity card if you are not taking the full slot.

I'm a little nervous of trying to plug my RQDX3 or UC07 next to my 11/73 card in the CD slot - wondering if that is possible or if it will damage the cards?

 

[Radix]

Hi - you MUST NOT put dual boards in the C-D slots! - No grant card needed unless gaps in the A-B slots..

It takes maybe 20 - 30 seconds for the UC07 to boot like that - a photo of the setup would help - and the board configs

The first 3 slots are Q22-CD (AB-CD), the rest are Q22-Q22 (AB-AB) in a standard BA23 chassis only

Q22 = A-B

 

[peclark]

Hi - you MUST NOT put dual boards in the C-D slots! - No grant card needed unless gaps in the A-B slots..

It takes maybe 20 - 30 seconds for the UC07 to boot like that - a photo of the setup would help - and the board configs

The first 3 slots are Q22-CD (AB-CD), the rest are Q22-Q22 (AB-AB) in a standard BA23 chassis only

Q22 = A-B

Here's the setup I tested:



Jumpers on the KDJ11-A were 1-8 IN, 9 Out
I also tried 1-7 IN, 8-9 Out

The UC07 manual says to put 3 & 7 IN for KDJ11-A for autoboot.

UC07 Firmware is set for device 0 autoboot, and it is set for default address.
Switches are 0-4=OFF 5=ON 6=ON

With either setup, it hung indefinitely (I think I waited at least 10 mins).

I then set jumpers 3 & 7 for ODT, and I did get to ODT, but when I tried typing 17775120/ I got @? - no response from the UC07.. shouldn't I be able to get to the firmware in this config?

 

[Radix]

the board should respond at 177772150 - I take it that was a typo? That is the boards first address of 2 if configured as default 1st controller

I would remove the RQDX3 and put the UC07 on the left to get started

 

[peclark]

the board should respond at 177772150 - I take it that was a typo? That is the boards first address of 2 if configured as default 1st controller

I would remove the RQDX3 and put the UC07 on the left to get started

hmmm I may have got the address mixed up in my mind, and not double checked... ok I'll try again. I'll remove the RQDX3... also forgot to mention, I have the QBone TTYS2 (really called S1 - the manual appears to be wrong) emulating a DL11, and that seems to work, at least with ODT...

 

[peclark]

the board should respond at 177772150 - I take it that was a typo? That is the boards first address of 2 if configured as default 1st controller

I would remove the RQDX3 and put the UC07 on the left to get started

That worked! I removed the RQDX3, moved the UC07 in it's place (also removed the DELQA I forgot to mention was in there too), Jumpers 1-8 on KDJ11-A set, and it BOOTED!!!! This is so awesome - I'm going to go back to my original goal of getting the DELQA working. Will rebuild a new install based on the 11/73, and add back the cards one at a time to ensure that was not the issue...

Thanks so much for your help!

Pete

 

[Radix]

Oh Great! - Odd - but I'll take it... you may have an address or vector conflict with the extra boards, minimal system is always the place to start - then break it later, lol

 

[peclark]

Oh Great! - Odd - but I'll take it... you may have an address or vector conflict with the extra boards, minimal system is always the place to start - then break it later, lol

I added back the DELQA, and the system still boots up fine. I then added the RQDX3, and the system fails to boot, just waits indefinitely, and no lights come on on the UC07, so I think the RQDX3 is the culprit. I'm going to double check the switch settings and jumpers. Since all I'm using the RQDX3 for is the floppy support, I may try putting the old RQDX1 back in and see if that has any better luck.

 

[Radix]

So the RQDX3 should go at 172154 as second board, the vector setting is set by the OS, but check the RQDX1 manual, Chapter 3 - They have to be the last board in the set:



So you want jumper A2 in

 

[peclark]

So the RQDX3 should go at 172154 as second board, the vector setting is set by the OS, but check the RQDX1 manual, Chapter 3 - They have to be the last board in the set:


View attachment 1277025
So you want jumper A2 in

View attachment 1277026

I figured out my problem with the RQDX3 - turns out the problem was ME... when I tested the configuration above, I had failed to put the SD card back in the zuluscsi. DOH...

Now, in the config above, with the SD card in, it boots just fine...

Now on to getting the DELQA in DEQNA Lock config working in Ultrix. I haven't been able to figure out what device name it shows up as in Ultrix. According to the video in the first post, it was qe0 in Simh, but I don't seem to have a qe0 on the "real" pdp11. Wondering if it will show up as a different device? Can't find any documentation on TCP/IP setup in Ultrix-11.

Pete

 

[nadaveiron]

I added back the DELQA, and the system still boots up fine. I then added the RQDX3, and the system fails to boot, just waits indefinitely, and no lights come on on the UC07, so I think the RQDX3 is the culprit. I'm going to double check the switch settings and jumpers. Since all I'm using the RQDX3 for is the floppy support, I may try putting the old RQDX1 back in and see if that has any better luck.

View attachment 1277024

Is this an H9278-A? If so, you have a gap before the RQDX3. The Q Bus is serpentine. It goes in slots 1-3 AB, but then 4AB->4CD->5CD->5AB. You have the RQDX in 5AB and nothing in 5CD. Page 1-12 here for more details...

 

[peclark]

Is this an H9278-A? If so, you have a gap before the RQDX3. The Q Bus is serpentine. It goes in slots 1-3 AB, but then 4AB->4CD->5CD->5AB. You have the RQDX in 5AB and nothing in 5CD. Page 1-12 here for more details...

yep, it is. Thanks for that - I didn't understand the positioning of the cards very well. I'll correct it...