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Model II System Diagnostics Failure & Model 6000 68k board in Model II?

K

Kevin Williams

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
73
Location
Fort Worth, TX
Hello Everyone,

I have a Model II which seems to be working just fine. I am able to make 8" floppies on a PC I have with a Qumetrak 842, and almost all of the disk images I have tried work like a champ. Short of the keyboard needing to be rebuilt, it seems to be top notch. I found the Model II archive posted on GitHub and found a few Model II diagnostics disks. One of them will not boot, I get an error 40 as I recall. I tried this image three times on different disks with the same result. The other disk dated 1986 boots, and I can run the memory test just fine. However, when I select option 8 for the Model II/12 System test, the disk loads the test and it locks before the test runs. I'm not sure if this is just a problem with old software, or if there is truly an issue! :-( She seems seaworthy and no other programs I have run fail so maybe there is something else up.

Has anyone else run this diagnostic? There are only two in the GitHub repository and this is the one dated 1986.

Also, I had another quick question. I lucked out yesterday and bought a 68000 board, 3 256k memory boards, and a rev I HD board on eBay! However, the 68k board is the newer model 6000 version. I did a ton of reading, and it seems this board may not work in my Model II, but I never found anyone conclusively stating that. I did find that the 1mb memory boards are not compatible, but I did buy the 256k boards which in theory should be. Interestingly, the board I bought has the cables attached with three jumpers! I'm assuming this means you were able to add three cards, but I found that the II/16 only supported 512k. I'm going to try and get it to work with just one board at first, and I'm assuming worst case scenario, Xenix won't boot. I won't fry the board though will I? It seems the II/12/16/6000 all have the same pinout, right?

If no one has tried this, will, I'll let you know. :)

Thanks,
-Kevin
 
Hi Kevin,

I am able to boot both of the Diagnostics disks from the archive just fine on my Model II. However, I am using an HxC and don't recall if I ever created physical disks from those images. How did you create your images, with ImageDisk?

For option 8 on the TRS8TEST disk, simply press the Break key to get into the submenu. I know...you think it would say somewhere on the screen to do that. :)

Congratulations on scoring the 8Mhz board set...that is awesome! I have never tried using that board in a Model II, but I have talked to other folks who worked with these machines back in the day who did perform this upgrade and said that it does work. I don't see why not, because the buses are compatible. But, I can't guarantee it and some others on this forum may know better than me.

One thing for sure is that you will need the upgraded Model II power supply in order to use the 68k boards. What is the model # on your power supply? If you have a AA11082 or AA11081 then you are in luck. If it is an AA11080 then you will need to upgrade it.

Enjoy your Model II!
 
I'm also very interested in seeing how you make out with the Model 6000 68k items in the model II.
Which Xenix are you going to try, the earlier one for the old 68K board or the newer xenix for the 6000? Both?
Also where did you get your Xenix copies.
I'm trying to decide whether to invest in Xenix upgrades for my model II and need some answers!
Thanks!
 
Hello,

Sorry, I replied before but I guess it didn't save. I just got the boards in, but haven't tried them yet as it looks like I get to upgrade the power supply first. :) Probably needs to be done anyway, I've had more than one old power supply smoke and I'm not stranger to replacing capacitors. Not sure which OS I want to try, but I've always wanted to run Xenix! I worked for MS for 16 years, and got into spirited arguments about how MS popularized Unix helped form SCO, etc. I know I can run x86 versions of it, but I always wanted a cool machine like this to run it on. I even have a few terminals. :)

It may be a little while before I get to it, but once I get it up and running, I'll probably have it up for sale pretty quick. I'm reselling now, and hope to get this guy maxed out before I sell it. I have two non-working FreHDs (frustrating!), and I just built a few of the lo-tech IDE cards. Looks like I need another part for the Model II, so gotta order that as well. :)

Thanks!
-Kevin
 
Kevin Williams said:
Hello,

Sorry, I replied before but I guess it didn't save. I just got the boards in, but haven't tried them yet as it looks like I get to upgrade the power supply first. :) Probably needs to be done anyway, I've had more than one old power supply smoke and I'm not stranger to replacing capacitors. Not sure which OS I want to try, but I've always wanted to run Xenix! I worked for MS for 16 years, and got into spirited arguments about how MS popularized Unix helped form SCO, etc. I know I can run x86 versions of it, but I always wanted a cool machine like this to run it on. I even have a few terminals. :)

It may be a little while before I get to it, but once I get it up and running, I'll probably have it up for sale pretty quick. I'm reselling now, and hope to get this guy maxed out before I sell it. I have two non-working FreHDs (frustrating!), and I just built a few of the lo-tech IDE cards. Looks like I need another part for the Model II, so gotta order that as well. :)

Thanks!
-Kevin
Click to expand...

Kevin I think as long as the system is working you'll get a great price selling it either way, even if not maxed out - they are very sought-after :)
 
My interest is setting up an early Unix microcomputer as a show and tell around young Linux folks.
But I suspect I have to upgrade the power supply too. Bummer there wasn't headroom in the original
supply on behalf of the present but unused slots...
...but not surprising given the Model I forwent lower case to save a buck or two.
I checked out the git repo provided by PSKI on another thread (thank you very much!) and I didn't
see the earlier Xenix version among the material. I didn't look hard, I might have missed it.
Or perhaps its mixed in on a set without the name being reflected.
Doesn't sound like there are many folks working on Xenix for these machines.
I hope there is enough info to replicate the old system environments.
 
dmemphis said:
My interest is setting up an early Unix microcomputer as a show and tell around young Linux folks.
But I suspect I have to upgrade the power supply too. Bummer there wasn't headroom in the original
supply on behalf of the present but unused slots...
...but not surprising given the Model I forwent lower case to save a buck or two.
I checked out the git repo provided by PSKI on another thread (thank you very much!) and I didn't
see the earlier Xenix version among the material. I didn't look hard, I might have missed it.
Or perhaps its mixed in on a set without the name being reflected.
Doesn't sound like there are many folks working on Xenix for these machines.
I hope there is enough info to replicate the old system environments.
Click to expand...

For those of you with the AA11080 power supply, which is the one you will find in most standard Model IIs that are out there, there are some modern power supplies available that substitute very well for the the original Model II PS and have the capacity to run a full card cage.

e.g. https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/s...toreId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=323812

I can almost guarantee you will not be able to find a OEM AA11082 or AA11081 unless someone parts out of an existing 16A/12/16B/6000 machine. Although there was one on eBay recently.

You're correct that there is not much of TRS-Xenix 1 software in the archive. However, keeping TRS-Xenix alive is important and the early version is required for the stock Model 16(A & B) and the upgraded Model II. I have a lot of TRS-Xenix 1 software on various types of media (5.25", 8", IMD). I just have to find the time to really sit down and sort it all and arrange it properly for dissemination in the archive. If anyone else has early Xenix software available, please donate it to the archive. One thing in particular is that I am not sure I have the complete set of the Development Kit for Xenix 1.

BTW, I will be showing and discussing the Model II in our live show of TRS-80 Trash Talk tomorrow night!
 
Great to hear you do have the earlier Xenix! Wonderful tip on the P.S. too.
Just checked mine, its the AA1180 of course!
Looks like the MII will be more of an adventure than I thought.
Have not powered it up yet since acquiring it.
Hope I can catch the trash talk. I've been catching up on the past ones this week.
 
dmemphis said:
Looks like the MII will be more of an adventure than I thought.
Click to expand...

That's why I like collecting them! Where's the fun in having a reliable machine with all the challenges solved, that always starts up fine and doesn't make all sorts of noise?
 
Well, I'm not going to mess around with finding the "right" power supply. I like the outside of my machines to look original, but I like reliable power and the inside is less important. I have used many of the modules you can get on eBay from China, and will likely take this route. For example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC110-220V-...hash=item568004ea32:m:m-Tt3_1c6P79IZt8SZqzWPw. Wow, that was a long-a$$ link I grabbed at random, but you get the idea.

I'll post some pics of what I wind up with. I'll miss my Tandy Model II, but will not sell my Model 4, not my Pet, not my VaxStation 3100, nor my 5150, etc. :)

Thanks everyone,
-Kevin
 
Not to be a negative nancy, but one more challenge for you guys wanting to run Xenix on your Model IIs is that you will need a hard drive. TRS-Xenix requires to be run off of a hard drive. That means you will also need a HDA (hard drive adapter) card. And depending on the version of the boot rom in your Model II it may not even support hard drive booting. And if it does support hard drive booting it most likely will only support the early 8MB hard drive which are rare and requires the early type 1 HDA. (See http://nemesis.lonestar.org/computers/tandy/hardware/storage/mfm.html for details on the types of HD adapters that were used in these machines). I haven't gotten to the point in my MII skill set of upgrading boot ROMs so I'm not sure how feasible of a mod that is at this time. Some of the others with more experience here may want to chime in on that possibility.
 
I appreciate the heads up on that.
I would have made the assumption that a minimal system might have been able to
be made on floppy. Keep the tips coming.
I'll have to get the basic MII functioning and see what I've got to work.
I saw in the other thread the attempts to get solid state boot media working...
that is not complete yet, right?
 
The only current working solid state solution is using a Hans01 or Hans02 with a LoTech IDE. This will allow you to run LS-DOS only. There are some detailed threads about getting this working in this forum's archives. Or you could use a SS MFM emulator as well.
 
I completely missed the introduction of the Hans boards.
I thought I was going to go down the path of the tandy hard drive controller boards... type II... to suitable drive technology-
spinning or solid state.
 
Remember, the Hans boards are currently only working with LS-DOS.

For Xenix, the Tandy Type II adapter board and a Tandy MFM master (with controller) hard drive is your only option.
 
Yeah, I started to realize that Xenix was a no-go. :-( I do have a Type #1 HD board, but no drive. I WISH there was an MFM/RLL (ST-506 type) drive emulator out there. It seems like the HxC would probably be 90% of the code needed to drive such an emulator, and heck, from looking at the code on the FreHd, it's a WD1010 emulator, it just has the controller and the drive, not the drive alone. I did find one guy who built something like this for his PDP-11! But he used arm based board and a ton of 1 Farad caps for some reason? Odd board, but probably the only "fake" MFM drive out there. I bet it could be done pretty easily, but a little over my head.

So I do now have a HANS board, and a Lo-Tech Tandy board. I'm still running into some issues there. I can't find my real HxC floppy emu, and the Gotek with HxC code doesn't seem to want to work on the Model II? If I burn a real disk, I get the error 11h which JonB mentioned in another thread. I haven't found a solution there yet, so I can't even get LS-DOS to work!

So a quick update on my 68k boards, and memory cards. I plugged the 68k in, and one memory board. I ran the 68k diags, and success! 256k ram good. I then tried with a second RAM board, 512k good! The third RAM board was missing about 10 chips, so I found a few 4164's and tried it in as the third board. Jumpering correctly along the way, of course, the third board gave me errors, and the machine still only shows 512k. I then tried that board alone, and it shows 256k, but errors out. It's really odd too, it shows that it write a value like 0x1B, and read 0x1A, then it writes 0x1C, and reads 0x1B, etc. It's like it's one byte off on the address, or something really weird like that. I swapped memory around several times, and the same issue occurs. However, I think the board was working enough for me to know that, for whatever reason, you can only put 512k in a Model II. That's not to mention you don't have enough slots to put in a HD controller if you use that third RAM board. Unfortunately, as pski mentioned, I may not be able to test the 68k functionality much further than this. The diags run just fine in 68k mode, so it seems like the newer board is happy in a Model II, with 512k.

I put the old supply up for sale on eBay if anyone is interested. It was working fine when I pulled it out, except it will need new suppression caps, I never replaced them and as much of a pain as it is to remove the power supply in a Tandy II, grrr, I recommend doing this before you install it! :)

I'll hopefully have an update soon, and I'll post the pics of my power supply for anyone interested. It's working quite well, and I'm pretty happy with it.

Thanks everyone,
-Kevin

Also, I did replace my power supply as I mentioned. As a added bonus, it seems a lot of the jitters my screen were having are now gone! I guess the old supply was not shielded as well as the new ones and it really did make a difference. I also don't seem to have any screen noise when accessing the floppy as I used to.
 
Kevin Williams said:
So I do now have a HANS board, and a Lo-Tech Tandy board. I'm still running into some issues there. I can't find my real HxC floppy emu, and the Gotek with HxC code doesn't seem to want to work on the Model II? If I burn a real disk, I get the error 11h which JonB mentioned in another thread. I haven't found a solution there yet, so I can't even get LS-DOS to work!
Click to expand...

Ah, so it's not just me!

I got as far as running the formatting program under Lifeboat CP/M for the hans-01 hard drive emulation (I think FireBox wrote it?) and the drive responds. I think it is formatted OK, but the next thing I need to do is port or write a CP/M driver for it (which would be based on FireBox's Model 4 MM CP/M driver). It's only going to be for Lifeboat CP/M though, because Lifeboat is a vanilla CP/M with a standard driver "system" (if we can call it that). But you know how things go... you lose interest or life gets in the way, so all my retro projects are on hold right now. The MII is on a shelf right now, and its auxiliary switched mode power supply has died (I put this in to resolve the drive access screen wobbles, and allow me to run a silent fan). I am still trying to work out what's wrong with my PET IEEE ports (rather sporadically, I might add).

If only I was retired, then I would have more time to play. :(

Edit, after reading Hans's post below: Oh yes, and I have some of NF6X's 34-50 way adapter boards but not had an opportunity to assemble any yet..
 
Last edited:
@Kevin Williams

I have a HxC adapter and a modified Gotek adapter both with no problems running on a Model II and a Model 12.
I use the 34 - 50 pin adapter from NF6X as an interface between the Model II and the HxC.

I have created a new bootable LS-DOS6.3.1a image and uploaded to the GITHUB from pski. The bootable image is in the model2archive / Software / Other / LS-DOS / map.
You can find the driver and the formatter too as standalone files in the https://www.dropbox.com/s/uzeuilvpmbu9cqd/DOMDR6.DCT?dl=0. and
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9xwyrepoegicz5l/DOMFORM6.CMD?dl=0

An absolute sure way to build your working boot disks is using an FDADAP interface from http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html.
If you connect it to an old MSDOS machine with an adaptec 1542CP floppy controller you can read and write any 8", 5.25 and
3.5 inch floppy with the image software from http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/img54306/readme.txt.

With this set you can read and write single and double density disks and disks with both densities on one disk, like LSDOS 6.3.1a

I hope it helps you to get your computer running soon. :)
 
Hans01 said:
An absolute sure way to build your working boot disks is using an FDADAP interface from http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html.
If you connect it to an old MSDOS machine with an adaptec 1542CP floppy controller you can read and write any 8", 5.25 and
3.5 inch floppy with the image software from http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/img54306/readme.txt.

With this set you can read and write single and double density disks and disks with both densities on one disk, like LSDOS 6.3.1a
Click to expand...

Hi Hans,

I have a transfer PC that can image 8" disks without an adaptor board (although I have a special cable 34-50 way). I'm not sure what the drive controller is, but I have successfully imaged many boot disks using this setup. Yet for some reason, your original image gives 11H error on boot (from a real 8" disk). I have yet to try the new image.

Thanks
jonB
 
Hi Hans,

Thanks so much for your reply! I just found the new image you were talking about, and gave it a try. However, is it built with something other than imagedisk? I tried to write the file to a disk, but it seems corrupted? (is this image for a 5.25" disk?) Like JonB, I built an adaptor with a 34<->50 pin connector on it that works great for just about everything I've made. I have an old 286 that I use to make 8" disks and they almost always work. All of the pins are hooked up except the TG43 pin, which fortunately, my Qumetrak 842 does not need. It's an output, so a 5.25" or 3.5" floppy wouldn't need it anyway. My board should work backwards for my gotek, but I guess maybe not?

Thanks,
-Kevin
 
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