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Packard Bell 486SX/25 "Multi-Media Supreme" Not POSTing

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Macmaster2000

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Apr 8, 2016
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I found an old Packard Bell machine with a 486 in an Overdrive ready socket, with no quad-flatpack cpu on the board. At first I could not get anythign out of it, only a blinking HDD activity light that was in time with the actual drive "clunking". After removing the HDD, it sometimes, and I mean one in about 30ish chance, it will boot into a BIOS screen (see attachments) and will say "Shutdown failure" for a few seconds, then go to a black screen and do nothing.

Worth Mentioning:
It had one of those stupid CMOS batteries that can leak and destroy a board, so i removed it.
IMMEDIATELY AFTER removing the battery, it booted, gave the same shutdown error, but also gave errors about the rest of the hardware, and prompted to press F2 to get into BIOS, of course this being the only time I didn't reconnect the keyboard :sarcasm: and when I tried again, it went into blank screen after shutdown error.
Most of the time nothing comes up on the screen, and all 4 lights on my keyboard stay lit forever (power, caps, scroll, num).
I have gotten that screen with all the errors listed again with the keyboard inserted, but pressing F2 doesn't seem to do anything, and the system attempts to continue booting, with more errors, until freezing down further. The only response is the system beeps when I press a key, but that eventually stops too.

Does anyone know what on earth could be happening?

20160715_172754.jpg20160715_173845.jpg
 
I've never head of a shutdown error before on any computer. Anyone else able to put into details what that means?
All the other errors are what you would expect from the CMOS battery going flat or being removed like you have done. There are a number of machines that get really cranky if they have no CMOS battery. One of my pentium era toughbooks won't even POST at all unless the CMOS battery is good. I'm not positive about this model machine but with the CMOS int properly initialized anything could happen I guess.
 
Shutdown failure is related to the keyboard or keyboard controller. Try a different keyboard. Basically, the system is trying to use the keyboard to force a reset and it isn't working.

Just for the sake of simplicity, check the jumpers are set correctly for the Overdrive. If you can, consider removing the Overdrive from its socket and returning the system to the pre-Overdrive state. Packard Bell systems were picky about which Overdrives would work and sometimes the Overdrive fits in the socket but fails.
 
krebizfan said:
Shutdown failure is related to the keyboard or keyboard controller. Try a different keyboard. Basically, the system is trying to use the keyboard to force a reset and it isn't working.

Just for the sake of simplicity, check the jumpers are set correctly for the Overdrive. If you can, consider removing the Overdrive from its socket and returning the system to the pre-Overdrive state. Packard Bell systems were picky about which Overdrives would work and sometimes the Overdrive fits in the socket but fails.
Click to expand...

Tried 2 other keyboards, and it gave the same Shutdown error, however it DID actually reset the machine, before once again giving the same error and sitting at a blank screen after.
Strange thing is that there isn't an actual Overdrive CPU in the socket, but a standard 486. I don't know enough about overdrives to know if this is the correct way of doing things.


EDIT: I did also check the CPU jumpers, thanks to a sticker inside the case. None of them mention the overdrive socket, so not sure if they have any effect.
 
The overdrive CPU is pretty transparent to the motherboard and usually won't have any special jumpers. All you do to install one is set the bus speed to what it expects and the CPU type to something like 486DX (depending on the overdrive CPU you are using).

As previously mentioned they are hit and miss with some motherboards - although that's not the case with yours as you are running a 486.

Main thing to check is the bus speed and CPU type are correct. If that all matches the CPU correctly I would try another CPU just in case this one is faulty. If that fails you could retry seating the CMOS chip; but after that your running into problems with the motherboard itself.
 
3pcedev said:
The overdrive CPU is pretty transparent to the motherboard and usually won't have any special jumpers. All you do to install one is set the bus speed to what it expects and the CPU type to something like 486DX (depending on the overdrive CPU you are using).

As previously mentioned they are hit and miss with some motherboards - although that's not the case with yours as you are running a 486.

Main thing to check is the bus speed and CPU type are correct. If that all matches the CPU correctly I would try another CPU just in case this one is faulty. If that fails you could retry seating the CMOS chip; but after that your running into problems with the motherboard itself.
Click to expand...

All the jumpers on speed seem to be correct. At the moment I do not have another 486 lying around, but that will probably be my next step. I'm honestly not sure which chip is the CMOS chip.
 
krebizfan said:
Shutdown failure is related to the keyboard or keyboard controller. Try a different keyboard. Basically, the system is trying to use the keyboard to force a reset and it isn't working.
Click to expand...
I am sure that you are writing of the the CPU reset mechanism shown in the diagram at [here]. The BIOS sends a particular command to the keyboard controller (a chip that resides on the motherboard), and that command results in the CPU getting reset. The keyboard is not involved in the process.

NeXT said:
I've never head of a shutdown error before on any computer. Anyone else able to put into details what that means?
Click to expand...
A possibility: The power-on self test (POST) may be doing what the POST in the IBM 5170 does, testing the shutdown byte within the RAM of the CMOS/RTC chip. If it is, the "Shutdown failure" message may the failure indicator of that test for the OP's computer.

Macmaster2000 said:
I'm honestly not sure which chip is the CMOS chip.
Click to expand...
It is usually a Motorola MC146818.
 
Macmaster2000 said:
All the jumpers on speed seem to be correct. At the moment I do not have another 486 lying around, but that will probably be my next step. I'm honestly not sure which chip is the CMOS chip.
Click to expand...

It's probably the only chip in a socket on the motherboard. It usually has something like 'AMIBIOS' or 'AWARD BIOS' on the label. I'm not familiar with your Packard Bell system but someone else might be able to chime in with a better description of where it is.
 
3pcedev said:
It's probably the only chip in a socket on the motherboard. It usually has something like 'AMIBIOS' or 'AWARD BIOS' on the label. I'm not familiar with your Packard Bell system but someone else might be able to chime in with a better description of where it is.
Click to expand...

Now I feel like an idiot, I didn't realize that they were the same chip! :wow:

I did reseat the chip, and nothing different.

Edit: Ok so they are different, gonna look closely and see if I can see any that fit the Motorola.
 
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http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/pb/mb/pbmb1.htm has some motherboard images with descriptions of layout. Might help with identifying what parts go where. Packard Bell had a lot of different motherboard models so your specific model might not be there.

One chip to look for is 8042, the keyboard controller. If it is there, it will be a small rectangular chip probably socketed. If the Packard Bell is newer, the keyboard controller is part of the main chipset. A failed keyboard controller could result in your symptoms.
 
Macmaster2000 said:
Edit: Ok so they are different, gonna look closley and see if I can see any that fit the Motorola.
Click to expand...
If that good resource that krebizfan pointed to does not help, then at [here] is a photo that may (repeat: may) help you distinguish the CMOS/RTC chip (some simply call the "CMOS chip") and the keyboard controller chip.

In hardware (and software), different motherboards implement things differently. Without specifics of your particular motherboard (manuals, photos, etc.), all we can tell you is what the norm is.
 
Bit of an update: The computer doesn't seem to totally freak until I try to get into the BIOS setup, I can keep hitting F1 to try to continue booting, and all the lock keys work and lights turn on and off, but the moment I hit F2 it freezes, so could I somehow find a new BIOS chip somewhere? Or reflash this one?
 
Macmaster2000 said:
Here's a pic of the mobo.
Click to expand...
From that, it looks like:
* Both the functionality of the CMOS/RTC chip and keyboard controller chip have been moved into the chip set.
* The chip in the middle of the board, the one with the white label, contains the BIOS.

If you provide a readable photo of the label on the white-labelled chip, we should be able to determine the functionality of the chip.

Also, that chip, whatever it is, appears (hard to tell) to be in a socket. If it is, try reseating the chip (carefully remove/replace).

Macmaster2000 said:
Bit of an update: The computer doesn't seem to totally freak until I try to get into the BIOS setup, I can keep hitting F1 to try to continue booting, and all the lock keys work and lights turn on and off, but the moment I hit F2 it freezes, so could I somehow find a new BIOS chip somewhere? Or reflash this one?
Click to expand...
The power-on self test (POST) of a PC clone normally resides in the BIOS chip. And normally, one of the early tests that the POST performs is to verify that the contents of the BIOS chip are not corrupted. On detecting such corruption, what the POST does varies from BIOS to BIOS. Some BIOS' may just halt, some may beep the speaker then halt, etc. It is a serious situation. If I was the author of a POST, I would code it so that if a corrupted BIOS was detected, an error would be given followed by a halt. I certainly would not allow execution to continue.

Like what was indicated in post #2, we have seen the lack of a CMOS/SETUP battery (or a close-to-dead one) cause strange symptoms. It may be worth your while trying a new battery.
 
Ok, so after a day or so of not being able to do much, I have narrowed the problem down to a few things.
First, It seems like the PSU is dying, which sucks because this is the 2nd machine that had a dead SFF at power supply. I did some troubleshooting with it and on 2 other machines and they wouldn't post with a HDD plugged into molex and IDE, and I'm just going to buy a nice atx to at converter so I can remove that from the equation.
Secondly I'm going to try to solder a AA battery holder to the cmos pins to see if that works.
This machine would be a great ms-dos gaming rig and I'd love to get it working, so hopefully both of these will fix the issue.
 
modem7 said:
Like what was indicated in post #2, we have seen the lack of a CMOS/SETUP battery (or a close-to-dead one) cause strange symptoms. It may be worth your while trying a new battery.
Click to expand...

A dead or low CMOS battery can indeed cause erratic behavior.

Machines with dead batteries can range from not keeping BIOS settings to not POSTing to even not powering on. I have some laptops that won't POST and some others that won't power on if the CMOS battery is low/dead/missing. I also have a server that won't post with a low/dead CMOS battery.
 
GiGaBiTe said:
A dead or low CMOS battery can indeed cause erratic behavior.

Machines with dead batteries can range from not keeping BIOS settings to not POSTing to even not powering on. I have some laptops that won't POST and some others that won't power on if the CMOS battery is low/dead/missing. I also have a server that won't post with a low/dead CMOS battery.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've got a new battery on the way, hopefully it'll make this machine work.
 
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