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Pentium 4

My ideal P4 system: whatever the fastest clock speed available(3.2ghz I believe?) with AGP and DDR RAM on a motherboard that supports Win98SE.

My thoughts in general: don't get a P4 because the P4 was a good processor. Get a P4 because they are widely available AGP systems and will run win98 games & hardware extremely well. They suck balls for XP and in general are not that interesting hardware-wise, but it is a good solid budget retro system for '98.
 
EverStaR said:
So let me ask this, $200 delivered last gen p4, win 98, full complete system , one doesnt have a satisfactory 98 Se system, what would they have to loose?
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I would say you have the $200 to loose, for starters.

Pentium 4s are VERY cheap.

But, then, assuming the rest of the parts are worthwhile, its not exactly a "bad" deal. Did it at least come in a nice case?
 
Chuck(G) said:
I use an Advantech AIMB-742 in a rackmount chassis to drive various gizmos. It also has a good floppy controller (FM/MFM-capable) that supports 2 drives--also has an on-board CF card slot. It's an industrial board, so it's not the typical consumer fare.
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THAT is a good board to have. AGP + ISA with DDR RAM. Can do some fun things.
 
VERAULT said:
I think the more important topic is Hawaiian Punch changed its formula completely 35 years ago and no one ever seemed to notice. Even though it tastes completely different than it used to. We have huge Mysteries like this to unravel and you guys are arguing about disposable crappy garbage processors. I want back my tasty beverage I enjoyed when I was young!
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And they changed the Fruit Loops formulas too! Damn I miss those Fruit Loops! :ROFLMAO:
 
Modern boards with PCI and ISA still get manufactured every now and then. They are built for industrial applications but attack attention from the retro enthusiast circles. That one is a great find.
 
There's a lot of strange stuff in the food industry. Take peanut butter. Ordinary (not the organic pricey stuff) has the peanut oil removed and cheaper oil substituted. Peanut oil commands a premium price in the fried foods racket because it has a very high smoke temperature (you can desolder a PCB by immersing it in peanut oil of a high-enough temperature, for example).
 
Unknown_K said:
Nov 20, 2000, first orders to Dec 7, 2007, last orders, August 8, 2008, last shipments.
Started at 180nm then 130, 90, 65. Sockets 423, 478, 775.
As far as a CPU goes that's a long time.
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I'm talking about mainstream lifetime, not how long it was produced. Nobody was buying Pentium 4s in 2008 new except legacy clients. When the first Core 2 chips rolled out, Pentium 4 was dumped like the cancer it was. Even the slowest Core 2 based Celerons were outperforming the fastest Pentium 4 parts. And since the Core 2 architecture was so good, you could overclock them to the moon with relative ease. 500-1000 MHz overclocks weren't uncommon, and >1000 MHz overclocks were possible with a bit of voltage tweaking, further leaving Pentium 4s in the dust. The lower spec Celerons and Pentium Dual-Cores were easy overclockers because of their low bus speed, just change it from 800 to 1066 or 1333 MHz and you had a screaming system.

That'd be like saying the Pentium 200 MMX went a long time because it was produced for 25 years from 1997-2022. Nobody but select legacy clients and vintage computer enthusiasts were using it for the vast majority of that time. And most of us in the vintage computing hobby weren't buying trays of new chips directly from intel.

hunterjwizzard said:
My ideal P4 system: whatever the fastest clock speed available(3.2ghz I believe?) with AGP and DDR RAM on a motherboard that supports Win98SE.
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PGA423 - 2.0 GHz (without interposers)
PGA478 - 3.4 GHz
LGA775 - 3.8 GHz

As to how fast you can get an LGA775 board with an AGP slot, it's hard to know. Chipset vendors stopped supporting AGP slots around the 533/800 MHz switch. Universal AGP slots pretty much died with 533 MHz FSB boards, which killed support for older AGP 2x cards like the Voodoo5. AGP 4x/8x slots lived on a bit longer into the 800 MHz FSB era, but they were generally low end boards with VIA/SiS chipsets that weren't very good.
 
GiGaBiTe said:
I'm talking about mainstream lifetime, not how long it was produced. Nobody was buying Pentium 4s in 2008 new except legacy clients. When the first Core 2 chips rolled out, Pentium 4 was dumped like the cancer it was. Even the slowest Core 2 based Celerons were outperforming the fastest Pentium 4 parts. And since the Core 2 architecture was so good, you could overclock them to the moon with relative ease. 500-1000 MHz overclocks weren't uncommon, and >1000 MHz overclocks were possible with a bit of voltage tweaking, further leaving Pentium 4s in the dust. The lower spec Celerons and Pentium Dual-Cores were easy overclockers because of their low bus speed, just change it from 800 to 1066 or 1333 MHz and you had a screaming system.

That'd be like saying the Pentium 200 MMX went a long time because it was produced for 25 years from 1997-2022. Nobody but select legacy clients and vintage computer enthusiasts were using it for the vast majority of that time. And most of us in the vintage computing hobby weren't buying trays of new chips directly from intel.
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Dell was still selling P4 desktops at the end of 2005 and maybe into 2006, that's as mainstream as it gets.

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/dell-dimension-e510-home-review/

Major publications were talking about huge price cuts for P4 CPUs coming in 2007 so secondary manufacturers would still be selling new systems at that time.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2006/09/7796/

Overclocking has nothing to do with mainstream buyers of systems. All major manufacturers have high end, middle end and low-end tiers for systems they sell for each price point. While gamers probably didn't want a P4 when core2 systems were also around there were still people looking for deals and buying those systems just like 386 systems were still selling when 486 systems were the rage. If anything, you can say Pentium D was a blip in time compared to the Pentium 4. Core 2 lasted from 2006 to 2012 when they were discontinued.
 
I've got some small form factor Pentium 4 machines which accept low profile AGP cards plus full height PCI cards horizontally via a riser card. I find this handy for making a machine that has an old video capture card, SCSI card, etc. One was also handy recently for a retro LAN party, since I didn't get around to putting together anything cooler; at least I still got to play!
 
Unknown_K said:
Dell was still selling P4 desktops at the end of 2005 and maybe into 2006, that's as mainstream as it gets.
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Which would put it at 5 years, 6 tops.

Unknown_K said:
Major publications were talking about huge price cuts for P4 CPUs coming in 2007 so secondary manufacturers would still be selling new systems at that time.
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Those huge price cuts were because Pentium 4 chips at that point were barely selling, retailers were sitting on piles of inventory that nobody wanted. AMD had been crushing Intel with the Athlon 64 for years at that point, and the upcoming Core 2 chips made Intel compete with itself. You could buy a brand new Pentium 4 for as little as $50, and some retailers were trying to do board and memory bundles to get old inventory out the door, and still they weren't selling. There were few Pentium 4 era chipsets that supported any Core 2 chips, and the few that did often did it with severe performance and feature penalties, making a "buy now, upgrade later" proposition a bad idea.

Going into 2007 and 2008, there was virtually no market for the Pentium 4 anymore. The low end of the market was filled with the Celeron 400 series, E1000, E2000, E3000 and E4000 series. The Celeron 400 and E1000 series chips sold for the same or less than the Pentium 4 and had the same or far greater performance, with the ability to upgrade to later and faster parts.

Unknown_K said:
Overclocking has nothing to do with mainstream buyers of systems. All major manufacturers have high end, middle end and low-end tiers for systems they sell for each price point. While gamers probably didn't want a P4 when core2 systems were also around there were still people looking for deals and buying those systems just like 386 systems were still selling when 486 systems were the rage. If anything, you can say Pentium D was a blip in time compared to the Pentium 4. Core 2 lasted from 2006 to 2012 when they were discontinued.
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The 386 to 486 transition isn't really comparable to the Pentium 4 to Core 2 transition. Back in the 80s and early 90s, computers were orders of magnitude more expensive, people bought a 386 because they simply couldn't afford a 486. In the late Pentium 4 and early Core 2 era, that was not even remotely the case. Newer Core 2 chips were being sold for the same or lower than the Pentium 4 that came before them.
 
Chuck(G) said:
There's a lot of strange stuff in the food industry. Take peanut butter. Ordinary (not the organic pricey stuff) has the peanut oil removed and cheaper oil substituted. Peanut oil commands a premium price in the fried foods racket because it has a very high smoke temperature (you can desolder a PCB by immersing it in peanut oil of a high-enough temperature, for example).
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Once you switch to the organic stuff (I love peanut butter), homogenized crap like JIF infused with crap transfat and cheap oils just takes and feels fake,
 
VERAULT said:
What are you talking about $200.00!?!! These things are free everywhere!!!! Because they are literal ewaste (junk). Youd really spend $200 on an relatively recent obsolete worthless machine??

Whats wrong with you??!

And whats all this nonsense about win98 on a P4.. no p4s came with windows 98 .. am i missing something in this group delusion?
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Uhm. okay there, a little over the top no? lol
 
EverStaR said:
Uhm. okay there, a little over the top no? lol
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No I dont think so. Im not tyring to be insulting. But your decision making in this instance seems incredibly flawed for wanting to pay $200.00 for readily available garbage.

Why not donate the money to an animal shelter to offset the very bad karma...


I mean dont you have big trash pickup days or recycling centers?
I just dont get it. I see this silly young guys clogging up youtube with videos marked "Vintage computer pickup" or "huge vintage computer Hauls"... Because they are too young and too stupid to realize the world existed long before they did and this stuff is just modern waste.
 
hunterjwizzard said:
I would say you have the $200 to loose, for starters.

Pentium 4s are VERY cheap.

But, then, assuming the rest of the parts are worthwhile, its not exactly a "bad" deal. Did it at least come in a nice case?
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It doesn't exist, its a hypothetical. but if you think about it, if it had a nice case, nice video card, nice sound card, nice amount of memory, fast P4. The parts would almost be worth $200, IE the P4 MB would practically be free. So you have people here split, some have and like them a lot, and others who think they are worthless and trash. The Hypothetical was presented to see how the value or lack of value conversation played out. Looks like worthless is winning. Looking at SOLD on ebay shows prices of anywhere from $19 to $300, the majority on the lower end.
 
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VERAULT said:
No I dont think so. Im not tyring to be insulting. But your decision making in this instance seems incredibly flawed for wanting to pay $200.00 for readily available garbage.

Why not donate the money to an animal shelter to offset the very bad karma...


I mean dont you have big trash pickup days or recycling centers?
I just dont get it. I see this silly young guys clogging up youtube with videos marked "Vintage computer pickup" or "huge vintage computer Hauls"... Because they are too young and too stupid to realize the world existed long before they did and this stuff is just modern waste.
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Whose bad Karma, certainly not mine? After all, we just started dating didn't we? So quick to judge if you are referring to me. lol
 
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