Pentium 4

[Unknown_K]

There are tons of 8bit, 16bit, 32bit, and 64bit chips being used in cars these days (mostly cheap MIPS that can stand up to harsh environments).

https://www.makeuseof.com/cpu-for-c...ufacturers mostly use the,the MIPS 32-bit MCU.

I don't see Intel getting involved in that because their products are too expensive to compete and there isn't enough profit to bother. Most of those processors are also probably made in very old processes that Intel shitcanned ages ago.

Hell AMD, even owns the console market (which is one reason they didn't go bankrupt before Ryzen came out). Only the XBOX 1 had a 32 bit Intel CPU in it.

Since the Intel ATOM was discontinued, I don't see why Intel would be making 32 bit CPUs anymore.

 

[3lectr1c]

If I grew up with a "speccy" as my personal computer I may tend to think highly of it in my own life. But it was a pretty bad example of a computer and it deserves to get laughed at. (Don't get mad at me now you speccy lovers!). There would be no sense in lashing out at the attacks since there is basis for them. Just have fun with it

That was the exact point in what I said - just because I personally don't care much for the Spectrum doesn’t mean no one should - I was saying that in response to someone insisting the P4 is junk and that everyone should think it is.

I think you’ve summed it up well - “just have fun with it”. Whatever hardware you enjoy is just that. That’s why I just don’t get why it matters so much to so many whether something falls under their own definition of vintage - especially when we have such a wide range of views on that here, from the 486 to the P4.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Only the XBOX 1 had a 32 bit Intel CPU in it.

Wasn't it basically a modified Pentium III?

 

[3lectr1c]

I’m pretty sure it was a barely modified if not standard Pentium III.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

I’m pretty sure it was a barely modified if not standard Pentium III.

It's a slightly odd duck that has the 133mhz bus of a regular Coppermine Pentium III but only has 128K of L2 cache like the Coppermine Celerons. Knowing how Intel rolled at this time the die probably has the other 128K on it, just disabled.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Hmm, apparently the xbox kernel was mostly cobbled together out of Windows 2000, so is not tough to make windows boot on the silly thing.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

Hmm, apparently the xbox kernel was mostly cobbled together out of Windows 2000, so is not tough to make windows boot on the silly thing.

The original Xbox is effectively just a legacy free PC with a locked-down BIOS. You need to hack it to install other OSes (either via a modchip, some software exploits taking advantage of buggy games, or directly flashing a completely new BIOS over the Microsoft one), but this process was refined into an exact science ages ago. For *years* people were selling modded Xboxes stuffed full of pirated games and emulators on Craigslist. In fact, it looks like they still are. In addition to piracy and emulation another popular use for them was as a TV media player; this was a thing all the way back in 2002, and descendants of this sofware still exist today on generic PCs.

Ultimately running Windows on one is probably kind of pointless considering you're limited to the 64MB of RAM soldered into them. That wasn't even really enough for Windows in 2001 when the box came out. But yes, an ISO of a hacked Windows 98 installer is out there if you're really so inclined.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Oh I remember the modded boxes full of pirates games. I never had one(or any xbox) but yeah. The media players as well, always wanted to build one right up until I made the jump to 1080p.

 

[Unknown_K]

Some or most XBOX 1's have pads on the board for another 64MB of RAM chips for 128MB total (not sure how much uses that is).

I have the original XBOX and other then recapping it and replacing the DVD ROM belt it still works. Even purchased a cable that allows for 1080P HDMI.

The Original XBOX CPU is a P3 derivative with a Geforce 3 derivative GPU, so if hacked to run Windows 98 with 128MB RAM (no idea if you can) it would be a nice retro PC. Never hacked mine because I have a nice stack of original games.

I do have a hacked XBOX 360 that I installed a HD into but dual layer DVD's cost more than just buying used games.

I think the 360 might be the last console where the original games are not betas where you have to download updates online just to play them.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

I think the 360 might be the last console where the original games are not betas where you have to download updates online just to play them.

Yeah thats gonna put a real damper on retro console gaming in a couple decades. PC gaming, too. No ones going to be building "retro" PCs of todays hardware in 2054 because all the best games will be gone, re-released with modernization, or unplayable thanks to long gone DRM services.

 

[GiGaBiTe]

Some or most XBOX 1's have pads on the board for another 64MB of RAM chips for 128MB total (not sure how much uses that is).

If you want to run any homebrew or do weird experiments like running full installs of Windows, you need the extra memory. Regular Xbox games won't make use of the extra memory at all. It is possible to run Windows 98 on an Xbox, and it has been done before.

There is another more complex mod that involves replacing the CPU with a Pentium 3-M (they use the same BGA package) to boost the CPU speed up to 1.4 GHz. That mod has tangible benefits for regular Xbox games, it helps significantly with slowdown issues on some of the more complex Xbox games that pushed the regular CPU to its limits.

I think the 360 might be the last console where the original games are not betas where you have to download updates online just to play them.

There is I believe one Xbox 360 game where the disc is effectively a demo because of a nasty bug that makes the entire game unplayable. I want to say it was one of the Tony Hawk games, but I don't remember exactly. Basically the first time you try and play the game, it downloads a massive 1 GB+ "patch", which is essentially downloading the whole game again, except with a patch that makes the game playable.

Games these days are effectively required to be downloaded, as they exceed the capacity of even bluray drives. Have you seen the disk space requirements for some modern games? Some are in the 100 GB range.

 

[3lectr1c]

Yeah thats gonna put a real damper on retro console gaming in a couple decades. PC gaming, too. No ones going to be building "retro" PCs of todays hardware in 2054 because all the best games will be gone, re-released with modernization, or unplayable thanks to long gone DRM services.

This will be annoying, but it will be taken care of in the form of legally-dubious repacks of games with all patches applied, DRMs cracked, etc.
That sort of thing already exists, but with time it will turn from “piracy” to “still piracy but nearly everyone does it because they have to”.
Still frustrating that that’s the situation we’re in though.

 

[GiGaBiTe]

DRM gets in the way of even the IP holders of the games.

There have been multiple re-releases of old DRM games where the IP holder used community made cracks to make the games work, because they lost the source to the game and/or couldn't remove the original DRM.

 

[the3dfxdude]

Yes, they *did*, but the answer was phrased in current tense, not past. *shrug* I mean, sure, I guess the current CMSE is still using the quark core so by splitting the hairs fine enough you can argue that Intel is still "selling" a lot of 32 bit-only cores, but it's kind of a "if a tree falls in the woods but no one is there to hear it" situation.(*)

If we remove the "Intel" limitation to this question then, sure, there are definitely vendors still selling new-build 32 bit x86 CPUs, so apparently someone still finds them useful. The Vortex86 line of SoCs is a well known example. There are a few other roughly 486-class SoCs out there, like this... I can see a few other possible leads, but their websites are in Chinese. I was wondering if the Geode was still alive, but looks like it was finally canned in 2019.

(* I guess we should chuck the asterisk in here that even though Intel isn't "selling" any 32 bit CPUs anymore according to any of their catalogs it's definitely possible they could have some large industrial customers that are still getting some long-discontinued products under the table; that sort of thing is why they were still selling 386s until 2009. Anything's possible if Quark ended up inside some kind of military drone or whatever.)

Yes. In the first message, I wasn't too sure if quark was still around as an embedded product. Since you said it was not, I went and checked, but then I also remembered the 32-bit core for the ME so I shared that. So if Intel really doesn't sell 32-bit at all, they do still have the ability to do so if they wanted to as a glimmer of hope. It's a shame though. I really did like atom and quark for being 32-bit. But they never had their heart in that. But yeah, I could still consider the competitors to Intel that have 32-bit still around.

 

[Chuck(G)]

In a few years, I suppose that anything without a NN will be considered as "vintage" and "obsolete".

 

[Eudimorphodon]

I really did like atom and quark for being 32-bit. But they never had their heart in that.

It’s funny, I was almost sure that Intel’s Xeon Phi massively-parallel coprocessors were 32 bit, because I vaguely recalled that they were basically Pentium P54C cores and supposedly Quark was a similar core. But apparently despite their low individual grunt the Phi cores had the 64 bit ISA extensions.

 

[Zare]

Regarding 'piracy' - note the intentional quotes because in Pirate Age when you got looted, you lost whatever they took, which is not the case with IP;

I bought a Nintendo Switch to play one game that's not available anywhere else. The title + pro controller (normal gamepad) cost about 150euro. I don't like sitting on my couch and I don't like handheld gaming. I just paid more than 300euro to play a Nintendo title - I got a gimped tablet that can't do anything apart from playing store games and I got a digital download. The controller is universal and works on PC. Yay.

So if I want to sit at my PC and play Metroid Dread I need to get an emulator. But it seems that I can't use my installation of the game because it can't be dumped from Switch because it's an uncrackable one. So I need to just download a 'pirate' copy of the data and play it that way.

I believe I am entitled to that, after paying a lot of cash. I paid the game and I paid for your platform and for your accessory. Do you really need to tie my hands 100%?

 

[3lectr1c]

(When applying US law, and keep in mind I'm no expert), I believe the way it works is that under DMCA you are allowed to dump titles you own from physical media to play on an emulator, that's all. So downloading a cracked copy, or any copy of a game that you did not yourself dump is "piracy". I don't think anyone's going to make the argument that it's immoral though, even those who view software piracy traditionally as immoral, especially in a case where Nintendo has made dumping a game extremely difficult/impossible.
As bad as Nintendo is when it comes to lawsuits, I highly doubt they'd ever go up against someone who downloaded a few roms. They focus on the people distributing them.

It's a stupid situation overall, especially since physical media is dying. What's currently considered "piracy" is going to well and truly become the only option for a lot of people.
I'm by far not the first to say this, but it's worth the reminder anyway: Piracy is rarely ever a security or greed related problem, it's usually a financial or availability problem. If Nintendo released their own emulator on major platforms and sold roms of each of their retro games as-is for like $10 or something like that, I'll bet piracy rates for their retro titles would fall dramatically.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

(When applying US law, and keep in mind I'm no expert), I believe the way it works is that under DMCA you are allowed to dump titles you own from physical media to play on an emulator, that's all.

"Allowed to" and "Able to" are 2 different things. The various media manufacturers have been trying for decades to stop us copying our media even if the law very clearly states we have the right to make backups of things we own.

I'm by far not the first to say this, but it's worth the reminder anyway: Piracy is rarely ever a security or greed related problem, it's usually a financial or availability problem.

There does exist a whole other class of pirates out there for whom "piracy" is not a "problem" but a pass-time. E.G. - a lot of the people actually doing the work to dump the ROMs, build emulators, crack encryption, etc, are not doing it as a means to an end but as an end itself. The act of figuring out how to get that ROM off that watered down tablet and then emulate the environment on PC is much more fun to them than the game itself.

For many people, DRM is like a mountain, and we are George Mallory.

 

[3lectr1c]

There does exist a whole other class of pirates out there for whom "piracy" is not a "problem" but a pass-time. E.G. - a lot of the people actually doing the work to dump the ROMs, build emulators, crack encryption, etc, are not doing it as a means to an end but as an end itself. The act of figuring out how to get that ROM off that watered down tablet and then emulate the environment on PC is much more fun to them than the game itself.

Sounds pretty similar to when us vintage tech folks end up spending 8 hours getting an old piece of hardware up and running just to put it on the shelf and move on to the next thing - the journey can often be more fun than the destination.