replace K6 with K6-2 ?

[daewoo 2800]

can you use a K6-2(300) in place of a K6 (300)?

i have a Asus SP97-V and looking at the chart(s) provided in the users manual
(which is incomplete) shows this chart


it is missing the list showing which CPU is CPU A-F as shown in this chart from the
P5A-B users manual (CPU E=4.5)


Can I use these ? (CPU B =AMD-K6-2 380 and slower)

I would use the 66Mhz setting. And the multiplier of 4.5?
Basically, underclocking the CPU?



Core V on the K6-2 is (on the lid) 2.2v but there is no 2.2v setting so can i use the 2.1v?


will that work without the magic blue smoke?

thanks for setting me straight on this

 

[GiGaBiTe]

can you use a K6-2(300) in place of a K6 (300)?

i have a Asus SP97-V and looking at the chart(s) provided in the users manual
(which is incomplete) shows this chart
View attachment 1275959

it is missing the list showing which CPU is CPU A-F as shown in this chart from the
P5A-B users manual (CPU E=4.5)

There is nothing missing from the chart, you can't use a jumper diagram from a completely different motherboard. Just because parts of a diagram go unused, doesn't mean you can substitute them with whatever you want.

The SP97-V does not support bus speeds higher than 83 MHz. It also does not officially support K6/2 processors, only with a patched BIOS can it run them, and I don't recommend it. That board is reported to have inadequate power regulation, which means that you don't want to be trying to put a high power draw part on it. The only benefit to running a K6/2 is that it is hard wired to accept a 2x multiplier as a 6x multiplier, which was used to upgrade older motherboards that lacked a 100 MHz FSB. But you generally need an interposer with a dedicated VRM to bypass the inadequate motherboard VRM. Higher clocked K6/2s can pull so much power that they can damage/destroy older boards and potentially themselves.

Going from a K6-300 to a K6/2 300 is not going to net you any performance gains, there's no point in doing it. If the board works with the existing K6-300, I would leave it well enough alone.

 

[daewoo 2800]

thank you GigaBite for your response i appreciate you taking the time to explain to the newb.
let me explain what i was thinking.
scary i know.

i was under the impression that the k6-2 could run at both 66mhz or 100mhz depending on which
socket is used 7 or super 7. as per the cpu chart from cpu-world. yes?
66mhz gives a good margin of safety being below the 83mhz board limit.

yes i know about the bad voltage issue (retro web sp97 page) but it said it was related to the OEM PSU that came with the MB.
that was why I asked about using the 2.1v setting and with the PSU voltage issue since the K6-2 wants 2.2v and PSU &MB may not deliver
that 0.1 volt difference needed to be at spec.
(from sp97 page retro web--"Users should exercise caution and consider upgrading the motherboard power supply")

I posted the chart from the sp97 showing no CPU A-E chart but they label them that way in the sp97 manual?
I posted the chart from the p5a as a comparison to show that in fact it is missing or not called out AS SUCH in the sp97 manual.
so i beg to differ with you there and if you see anywhere in the sp97 manual that has CPU A-E called out as to what
CPU s are A-E i will stand corrected and thank you for showing me.

CPU B is listed for both K6-2 and K6 and yes this is from the p5a manual and it(or anything like it) is missing from the sp97 manual.
also when i said underclocking i was referring to using it as a 66mhz and not the 100mhz its capable
yes i know i'm throttling down the K6-2 and not getting its full potential but its just for a test
since i don't have a regular K6. living on SS i can't afford to buy parts for something that i don't know works or will work.

all the boards i bought are just bare with no PSU, CPU, ram, fan or cards installed. I think the computers were
torn down to recycle (there were 2 gallons of acid, hydrochloric and nitric, if memory serves me that's
what you use for aqua regia/gold solvent) or to sell on ebay. can't ask the guy, i think he died.

i just bought a big puzzle of parts in boxes at a garage sale.
along with a couple of PSUs, memory, CPUs and about 40 peripheral cards.
i don't know what is good or bad, or what went with what.

as for the jumper settings ; both boards have the same setting for 66mhz
and there is a setting for the 4.5 multiplier on the sp97 settings which gives 297 close to 300.
the only thing was the voltage setting of 0.1v lower discrepancy...

that being said i'm the first to admit i don't know this stuff as well as you fellows. but i will muddle along
and figure it out. one way or another, hopefully with some input from others , if possible.
i'd rather look dumb for a moment than not to ask when in doubt or unsure.

again thank you GigaBite for taking your time for me..

so for 5 weeks into this reassembly, i have 2 boards and one computer in the case
working and 5 or 6 to go!!
MBs working :
Leading Edge Fortiva 5000 complete.
p5a-b
p2b-f
thanks to you guys for the help!!

yet to get working :
(2) sp97-v
dell gx110

and 4-5 or so MSI boards but they are newer, no jumpers to set!
one dell with the socket smashed and partly pried up, its the kind with the CPU
prongs on the board. also there is a intel P4(costa rica) CPU with no prongs just gold dots.
guess they went together?

 

[daewoo 2800]

hey Gigabite check this out

SP97 - Support

www.asus.com

shows all the CPUs that work depending on the MB version.



i lucked out both boards are v1.02
thanks! you made me go look for more info and now I'm
more sure it should work
(it says here in small print and in pencil)
;~)

 

[GiGaBiTe]

i was under the impression that the k6-2 could run at both 66mhz or 100mhz depending on which
socket is used 7 or super 7. as per the cpu chart from cpu-world. yes?
66mhz gives a good margin of safety being below the 83mhz board limit.

The K6/2 can run at most any bus speed. AMD in fact designed it to where it can run on a 66 MHz bus and take a 2x multiplier and internally treat it like a 6x multiplier so it can be used to upgrade old systems and run at 400 MHz. This can be abused by running it on a 75 or 83 MHz bus to get it running at 450 or 498 MHz. The problem is that it consumes far more power than most Socket 7 motherboards were designed to output, which is why it requires its own dedicated VRM on an interposer. Or in the case of motherboards that adhered to the Intel VRM specification, a special VRM that plugs into the VRM connector on motherboards that have. The other reason it usually requires its own VRM is because of the core voltage. Both Socket 7 and Super 7 have split power planes for VCore and VIO, but later Super 7 CPUs often have a far lower VCore than earlier Socket 7 boards allow for, which is what you're seeing with your board only having a 2.1v VCore available.

Another problem with running a 75 or 83 MHz bus is that it throws the rest of the clocks on the board way out of specification. Motherboards at the time usually cascaded other system clocks off of the FSB. So as an example, the PCI bus will run at 37.5 MHz with a FSB of 75 MHz, or 41.5 MHz with an 83 MHz FSB. This also increased the ISA bus clock. The memory clock was also increased, and SIMM modules are generally intolerant of large clock speed increases, especially 25+ year old memory chips.

yes i know about the bad voltage issue (retro web sp97 page) but it said it was related to the OEM PSU that came with the MB.
that was why I asked about using the 2.1v setting and with the PSU voltage issue since the K6-2 wants 2.2v and PSU &MB may not deliver
that 0.1 volt difference needed to be at spec.
(from sp97 page retro web--"Users should exercise caution and consider upgrading the motherboard power supply")

Not only is the voltage a problem, so is the current. Socket 7 motherboards were often known to have terrible CPU core regulation circuitry. Using linear regulators was really common, and they were often pushed far out of spec. The early buck regulation designs were also often pretty poor, sometimes running a mosfet into its linear region and being grossly inefficient. These designs generated A LOT of heat and would fall on their face when a higher current demanding CPU was used.

2.1v vs 2.2v isn't actually that big of a deal if the regulation circuitry could supply enough current for the demand. The only way to know is to monitor the VCore voltage and thermals of the power regulation circuitry.

CPU B is listed for both K6-2 and K6 and yes this is from the p5a manual and it(or anything like it) is missing from the sp97 manual.
also when i said underclocking i was referring to using it as a 66mhz and not the 100mhz its capable
yes i know i'm throttling down the K6-2 and not getting its full potential but its just for a test
since i don't have a regular K6. living on SS i can't afford to buy parts for something that i don't know works or will work.

The SP97 and P5A are two entirely different motherboards. You can't use the manual from one and apply it to another and vice versa. Just because the P5A has some feature that uses similar nomenclature, doesn't mean the SP97 will have it.

I was under the impression you already had a K6-300, not that you only had a K6/2. You can try to K6/2 at 300 MHz, just be aware it may not work, or if it does, it may exhibit strange behavior. You will probably need to update the BIOS to the latest version for it to work properly.

 

[daewoo 2800]

sorry for the slow answer, i had a heavy bout of vertigo or i was drunk and don't remember drinking!!
yes i have a k6-300 but its pasted in and
i'm from the same old school as you, don't fix it if it ain't broke!
one of the sp97's works just fine.
i upgraded the bios and so far everything is A-OK
but the other one is giving a POST card error just negative's all
across the led's ....so not sure if its fried or what.
so 3 out of 4 asus boards work.

thanks for your explanations GIGABITE!

my ATX to Dell adaptor came and i'm messing with
the Dell GX110 (51XGM).
but not much out there in the way of a pinout of the panel connections
nothing but the word "panel" on the MB.
it also could be the 9 pin USB connections..
all the other pins/plugs are labeled--Modem, Fan, CD_IN, PSWD, and EX_SPEAKER

 

[GiGaBiTe]

If the POST card has all dashes, it means the board is not even booting up. That's a pretty low level hardware fault that will be a headache to fix. That is assuming the board didn't get blown up by a power surge or bad power supply.

You'd need an oscilloscope and/or logic analyzer and a multimeter to check voltages and clocks to see if the board is doing anything.

 

[daewoo 2800]

if i can't get any response from the board (i don't have either a scope or analyzer) its
going to be a goner for me . but 40$ was a good value for the boxes so i'm not
too worried about one board. i'm guessing but there might more than one bad one.