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Restoring an IBM AT 5170

M

Maverick1978

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
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Location
Florida, USA
Hey, folks..

Picked one up off of Craigslist about 10 days ago for $100. Cosmetically, it was in good shape, came with the old IBM Hercules Monochrome display, original 1.2mb 5.25" floppy, working spare 1.2mb 5.25" floppy, the original clicky keyboard, and a few expansion cards (2mb RAM expansion, 9600kb modem, IBM mono/parallel card, and another IBM card that I don't recognize, but appears to have BIOS chips on them - even though I also have 2 on-board)

No IBM Reference/DOS/BASIC manuals though... sadly.

It had several BIOS errors with it, first and foremost was the clock. The previous owner soldered a phone handset battery that doesn't work worth a dang, so I'll be redoing that. I managed to clear the other BIOS errors by simply reseating the "other" IBM card referenced above, but the machine still wouldn't boot as it didn't realize it had a hard drive :)

After digging up an image of the AT Diagnostics disk as well as a bootable image with GSETUP, I configured the original 31mb Seagate ST-4038 as per the type listed on the drive, which checked out with GSETUP as well (type 21, IIRC). No go. I can't even tell for sure that it's powering up, I just know that it's not booting from that hard drive.

I've another MFM controller on the way, and I've got to dig my meter from storage to test for proper voltage from the power supply.

Any other ideas? - I'd like to keep it original, but am not against putting an IDE drive in there.

Also - quick question time while I've got your attention :)

1) the floppy drive has the side rails that allow it to go sit properly in the chassis, but these rails do not have a front-facing section allowing me to secure the drive in there - right now, it can be pulled in and out easily. Anyone got some proper side rails they'd be willing to part with?

2) from what I've seen online, this machine normally came with EGA from the factory... is that correct, or did I just get a unit that was downgraded for whatever reason? (not that I don't kind've like the monochrome - I grew up on that!)
 
There was no "standard" display configuration for the 5170. You bought the box and specified what you wanted. MDA, CGA and EGA were all options.

Your drive rails are fine--it sounds as if you're missing the small metal angle-bracket like retainers that screw into the front of the system unit that holds the rails in place. They're easy enough to make from angle iron (either aluminum or steel) available from most hardware stores if you can't find any.
 
I made some of the drive retainers for my 5170 by cutting the ends off some blank slot plates (the metal plates that cover empty slots in the chassis). I cut the end off then bent the tab over at a 90 degree angle. On the ones I used there was already a hole for a screw but on others, like the picture below, you would need to drill a hole.
slot_plate2.jpg

I cut off the the end just above the narrow tip. They were almost perfect replacements.
 
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>After digging up an image of the AT Diagnostics disk as well as a bootable image with GSETUP, I configured the original 31mb Seagate ST-4038 as per the type listed on the drive, which checked out with GSETUP as well (type 21, IIRC). No go. I can't even tell for sure that it's powering up, I just know that it's not booting from that hard drive.

You would most certainly know if the HDD is powering up. it will sound like a jet engine. :) I have never heard a quiet (like modern IDE) MFM based hard drive; part of the reason why I always opt to upgrade my old machines with modern drives. Computers should be used, not heard.
 
Maverick1978 said:
No go. I can't even tell for sure that it's powering up, I just know that it's not booting from that hard drive.
Click to expand...
Try drive type 8. You need to provide more information for us to diagnose this. Is there nothing on the display? No hard disk startup noise or floppy seek on boot?

If you can configure the BIOS settings most things must be working.
 
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My apologies - I wasn't clear :) The computer boots from floppy just fine (I was able to load the AT Diagnostics diskette as well as a Dos v6.22 boot-disk with GSETUP on there!), it's the drive that I can't tell for sure if it's starting.

FWIW, my old 386DX-25 had a 38mb MFM drive in it. I remember it being quite loud - at least in use. I honestly can't say I remember what it sounded like starting up, however... (sad, I know!)

The 1700-series errors on screen were cleared once I configured the BIOS. Won't have time to mess with it again until at least Sunday, but will try Type 8 on it. Will hopefully have my multimeter out of storage by then as well, and can check voltage on the power connector.

As for the drive rails... I'm far from above making my own from slot-covers (the idea had struck me too!) - i was just kind've hoping to keep the machine as original as possible.... :)

Thanks for the replies, folks... will follow up with some more progress reports soon
 
As modem7 said it's type 20.

If the hard disk was running you would know it - it's loud. The power connector on my ST-4038 is a bit loose (same with others I've had) and that may be the issue for you, or the disks are stuck to the heads.

I doubt very much the power supply is not working since it clearly already runs the floppy drive and motherboard.

Good luck!
 
I concur with the comments regarding the hard disk. It sounds like a jet engine ramping up! The first time I heard it I was sure I wasn't going to see a successful boot screen...but I did. It seems it's just the way these disks are. They sound like they mean business!

Tez
 
hargle said:
You would most certainly know if the HDD is powering up. it will sound like a jet engine. :) I have never heard a quiet (like modern IDE) MFM based hard drive; part of the reason why I always opt to upgrade my old machines with modern drives. Computers should be used, not heard.
Click to expand...

If you want to include vintage IDE drives, the little 40-megabyte ST-351A/X is pretty darn quiet, and not any louder than many modern 7200 RPM drives, including Seagate's own, before they introduced their current fluid-bearing design which basically renders the spindle motor inaudible.
 
Sorry for the delay - time of late has become very precious, and exceedingly rare!

I was able to spend some time with the machine last night. I pulled the hard drive and reseated all the cabling. I then pulled all the expansion cards save for the mono/printer card and the mfm controller board, booted up, ran GSETUP, and it worked correctly... with giving me a 1701 drive error :) Started adding the other expansion cards back in one at a time, and was able to maintain that level of non-working, which is a start.

I've a 2nd mfm controller board now, but the factory cables can't be used with it - I'll need to grab some spares from my old stock in storage.

With that said, I'm definitely getting some noise out of the HD now, which is good. What's not good is the amount of heat it's generating over a relatively short amount of time (powered on for ~20 minutes) - the metal enclosure on the sides and top of the casing were extremely hot to the touch. When I noticed this, I powered it down.. at this point, I don't think that the other mfm controller board will help; I don't recall my old 38mb MFM drive in my old 386 generating anywhere NEAR this type of heat, and I'm suspecting that there's a short or some other electronics problem causing it. Any ideas?

FWIW... if the electronics is anything beyond rudimentary, it's well beyond my current capabilities to properly diagnose and fix - though I'm hoping to improve those skills over the coming months.

-Mav
 
I have a 5170 AT that I recently restored back with all its original parts.

The case had been upgraded a few times , to a 386SX 16, then to a 386 25.
It eventually landed in my attic where it sat for 10 years or so until I got
it down and cleaned it up. Fortunately I still had all the original parts ,
motherboard , cards etc. I never thought 'downgrading' would be so much
fun !
 
Maverick1978 said:
...a 1701 drive error ... the amount of heat it's generating over a relatively short amount of time (powered on for ~20 minutes) - the metal enclosure on the sides and top of the casing were extremely hot to the touch.
Click to expand...

It's probably OK, they do run a bit warm and any failure would likely shut it down (or the PS.)

Have you checked that the Drive Select setting on the hard disk is on the second jumper setting (assuming the data [larger cable] has a twist in it)? Are you sure the data cable is for a hard disk and not a floppy disk? I doubt the AT controller board has failed. I would be checking the drive type again and although I've never used GSETUP I would inclined to try the normal IBM AT setup diskette.
 
Chuck(G) said:
There was no "standard" display configuration for the 5170. You bought the box and specified what you wanted. MDA, CGA and EGA were all options.

Your drive rails are fine--it sounds as if you're missing the small metal angle-bracket like retainers that screw into the front of the system unit that holds the rails in place. They're easy enough to make from angle iron (either aluminum or steel) available from most hardware stores if you can't find any.
Click to expand...

The AT "Installation and Setup" manual (there's one on ebay right now) will show a line drawing of this piece of metal.

Sean
 
Floppies_only said:
Is it possible to make a copy of the IBM setup diskette with DOS?
Click to expand...
The 'Diagnostics for IBM Personal Computer AT' diskette will be what's referred to. It has a 'SETUP' option in the menu.

The diskette is a standard 360K one. You can use DISKCOPY to copy it (via a 360K drive).
 
Maverick1978 said:
With that said, I'm definitely getting some noise out of the HD now, which is good. What's not good is the amount of heat it's generating over a relatively short amount of time (powered on for ~20 minutes) - the metal enclosure on the sides and top of the casing were extremely hot to the touch. When I noticed this, I powered it down.. at this point, I don't think that the other mfm controller board will help; I don't recall my old 38mb MFM drive in my old 386 generating anywhere NEAR this type of heat, and I'm suspecting that there's a short or some other electronics problem causing it. Any ideas?
Click to expand...
In a room at about 20 degrees C, I started up my (working) ST-4038. After 15 minutes, the metalwork on the drive was no longer cold, but had not even reached warm (my definition of 'warm'). After 30 minutes, the drive was warm. So you've definitely got a faulty drive.

Maybe the grease on the spindle bearings has deteriorated too much. In that situation, I've had success with WD40. Short term solution only. A bearing-noisy ST-412 that I treated about a year ago had to be retreated recently.
 
You may want to try using some real lubricant, rather than WD-40, which is pretty much Stoddard solvent and not much more. White lithium grease comes in an aerosol form and may give you more lasting performance. I use it on noisy fan bearings quite a bit with very good results.
 
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