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Searching for NEC PC-8001A software & hardware

But in terms of larger memory - when did CP/M start readily supporting more than 64K systems? (very early on, from the get go??) In other words, we can fault QDOS/MS-DOS for a lot of things, but it did do a good job of making 10x 64KB segments appear as one contiguous/conventional RAM. A lot of people have been "mystified" on how/why the IBM 5150 was so successful - surely part of it is the combination of factors: a single I/O + disk drive chassis, and an OS that "broke the 64KB barrier" in a Micro. (I never used CP/M that much often - I've read it essentially evolved in the DR-DOS lineage, and there was a "Concurrent CP/M" early on in the 1980s that never quite caught on; but when you look at something like the OSBORNE-I, it's still a 64KB-limited CP/M system.
Readily? Never. Each implementation of a banking scheme was different making it a challenge to actually develop programs to use that memory. I think MP/M was the easiest from DRI with each user having a dedicated bank. CP/M 3 had a rather wasteful single user banking scheme; a bank could contain buffers getting those out of the main TPA but much of the bank would be unused.

Wikipedia shows the Cromemco Z-2 which was offered along with the 16KZ memory card which could (in theory with multiple memory cards) support banking 512KB, That was in 1979 so quite early.
 
I'll take silence as a "yes." : - ) These manuals are now archived and browsable on-line:
https://archive.org/details/pc-8001b-micro-computer-users-manual-nec-en-1981
https://archive.org/details/pc-8001b-n-basic-reference-manual-nec-en-1981
https://archive.org/details/pc-8031b-32b-mini-disk-unit-reference-manual-nec-en

Looking through them, I noticed that for the Micro Computer User's Manual pages 34-35 are missing. It would be nice to get an update with those added, if it's not too much trouble.

Hi CJS,
Sorry for my late reply, no worries about sharing documents about the NEC 8001 on archive.org !
Good day,
Carl

 
For Japanese equipment in the US (e.g. PC-8001) is a transformer like this really necessary? (down convert to 100V)

 
For Japanese equipment in the US (e.g. PC-8001) is a transformer like this really necessary? (down convert to 100V)
For Japanese microcomputers and similar electronics it's generally not necessary. Most transformers and AC rectifiers are going to be fine running at 20% higher voltage than they were originally designed for, and these almost invariably feed linear regulators where a 20% higher input voltage will be well within spec.

The only downside of doing this is that the transformers/rectifiers may and the regulators will generate more heat. So just be a bit more careful than usual about making sure that vents are not blocked, your sauna is at lower than normal temperature if you are working in a sauna, and so on.
 
Wow, you got a truly super system there!
Great compilation of PC-8001 here! I just recently got a working Japanese PC-8001 with its original color screen. What a neat system and from 1979, wow!
Wow, you got a truly deluxe system there, with pretty much every option.

By "Mini-Disk" that is referring to 5.25" instead of 8", correct? Excellent to think of those 5.25" as the mini-disk!

Yes, "mini-disks" are the small 5.25" drives. Nice that modern equipment has gotten so compact, right? :)

PC-8001 Computer (32K RAM, N-BASIC)
PC-8012 Expansion Unit
PC-8023 132-Character Dot Matrix Printer
PC-8033 I/O Port for PC-8031
PC-8031 Dual Mini-Disk Unit
PC-8032 Expansion Dual Mini-Disk Unit
PC-8041 12" Green Display
PC-8043 12" Color Display
PC-8062 RS-232 Cable
PC-8093 Cassette Port Cable
You can find more details on the computer, dip switches, peripherals, etc. in my PC-8001 notes here. I'll just mention a few points about what you have.
  • The PC-8012 expansion unit has seven slots, up to four of which can be 32K RAM boards (for a total of 160 KB in the system, including the 32K RAM on the mainboard). A few other cards are listed in my notes above; it's worth checking to see exactly what you've got in there.
  • The PC-8012 also has a few on-board devices, though not as many as the PC-8011 expansion unit. These include a 2K PROM socket, an I/O port for the floppy disk subsystem, an interrupt controller and a timer.
  • The PC-8033 is a stand-alone I/O port for the floppy disk subsystem; you'd use this only if you have not attached a PC-8011 or PC-8012 expansion unit.
  • The PC-8031 mini-disk unit includes a complete second computer and floppy controller, much like the old CBM floppy drives. The interface between that and the computer is a 24-bit parallel interface (two uni-directional 8-bit data channels and some control signals) that uses a proprietary protocol to send disk block data back and forth. Unlike the CBM drives, this is a sector-level interface; the DOS is still in the computer rather than on the drive.
  • The PC-8032 Expansion Disk Unit does _not_ include the controller; it plugs into the PC-8031 and the FDC on that drives it. It thus can't be used stand-alone with a PC-8001 (though it could probably be used on a different computer that has its own fairly standard FDC).
Has anyone tried a WiModem232 with one of these and the terminal program? I'm not sure yet where to start on any kind of adapter cable, but the "as-is" PC-8001 might be able to support it? Or does the built in TERM really need something from the Expansion Unit?
The built-in TERM command doesn't need any RS-232 interfaces in the expansion unit (though it can use them, if present); it uses the on-board RS-232. That, however, is a TTL interface at a connector on the motherboard; you need an adapter to convert this to RS-232 levels and bring it out of the case. Fortunately you seem to have this: that's the PC-8062 RS-232 cable.

But in terms of larger memory - when did CP/M start readily supporting more than 64K systems?
CP/M itself, never, really. But CP/M provided only a very limited set of capabilities (some simple character I/O and disk I/O, of course), so though there were systems using more memory, the actual use of it was done by the application programs directly manipulating the hardware.

Wikipedia shows the Cromemco Z-2 which was offered along with the 16KZ memory card which could (in theory with multiple memory cards) support banking 512KB, That was in 1979 so quite early.
No, that was relatively late; large memories supported by vendors started a couple of years earlier in 1977 with IMSAI's "Megabyte Micro."
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Ah, to clarify, I didn't mean I had all those part numbers. I do see that was confusing. What I meant was: someone earlier had posted a digitized version of the PC-8001 "manual" (thank you!) which seemed to be from the UK ("B") variant (which is fine). I had trouble finding part numbers for things I was looking for, so I having the part numbers typed out in text I think would help with some searches in the future.

I only have the main PC-8001 unit itself, color CRT, and tape cassette (haven't tested the NEC tape recorder yet, as I don't have any spare tapes at the moment). Perhaps for the purposes of saving/loading from the tape, maybe the 100V down convert is necessary to keep the proper timing/speed of the data recording? For now I'll keep things at the 100V here. But from my own CPU overclocking days, yeah cranking up the voltage 10-20% was necessary, but at a cost of heat -- and from my model railroad days, cranking up the volts would eventually de-rail those trains around the turns :|

Specifically from that manual, yes it seems I'd like to find (or build) a PC-8062 RS-232 Cable. Then that level is always confusing: on the 1980 CoCo, I measured its RS-232 operating at -12V to +12V. Was it RS-232C that did the revision of the spec to be -5V to +5V ? The WiModem232 devices I get from CBMstuff seem fine with the -12V to +12V range. I suspect the PC-8001 will also be the -12/+12 variety?

Aside from finding the edge connector adapter, is there a wiring diagram for the PC-8062 cable? Or is an equivalent cable to the PC-8062 still available? (anyone have a photo of it?)
 
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Ah, to clarify, I didn't mean I had all those part numbers. I do see that was confusing. What I meant was: someone earlier had posted a digitized version of the PC-8001 "manual" (thank you!) which seemed to be from the UK ("B") variant (which is fine). I had trouble finding part numbers for things I was looking for, so I having the part numbers typed out in text I think would help with some searches in the future.
Ah! Well, excepting the disk units, I wouldn't count on finding those parts easily, and even if you do chance across them, they are likely to be very expensive. Sadly, they're mostly quite rare now. Note that you can use newer drive units (such as the PC-80S31) with the PC-8001 as well. You'll still need a PC-8033, but you can actually build one of these yourself fairly easily as it's a pretty simple device (just an 8255 PPI and a bit of decoding logic). Plans are available, though I don't have any to hand right now.

Perhaps for the purposes of saving/loading from the tape, maybe the 100V down convert is necessary to keep the proper timing/speed of the data recording?
Nope. All timing is run from the crystal-controlled computer clock, so even a different voltage on the motherboard wouldn't affect this. But:

But from my own CPU overclocking days, yeah cranking up the voltage 10-20% was necessary, but at a cost of heat....
That was and is different in that it's actually changing the voltage delivered to the CPU, which is not the case when you use 120 VAC to power a PC-8001. As with most computers of that era, a transformer converts the input AC to DC voltages somewhat above the voltages the board needs. These are then run through a linear regulator which takes a variable DC input voltage and produces a fixed output voltage, dissipating the extra energy as heat, so the voltage on the motherboard never changes (unless you don't feed enough voltage into the regulator). A typical input would be 8 V for a 5 V regulator, so if you connect a PSU designed for 100 VAC to a 120 VAC line, that 5 V regulator input will then rise to about 9.5 V. This is still well within the specs of the regulator (which can handle up to at least 15 V), so long as the regulator can dissipate the heat. The heat dissipation margins should easily handle the extra generated by only a 20% input voltage rise.

Specifically from that manual, yes it seems I'd like to find (or build) a PC-8062 RS-232 Cable. Then that level is always confusing: on the 1980 CoCo, I measured its RS-232 operating at -12V to +12V. Was it RS-232C that did the revision of the spec to be -5V to +5V ?
RS-232 is almost invariably run at ±12 V, though technically the spec allows anything from ±3 V to ±15 V. But the PC-8001 onboard serial is what's referred to as "TTL serial": 0V and 5 V instead of -12 V and +12 V. This needs to be converted if you want to use it with RS-232 devices. There are plenty of chips and adapters to do that conversion, but you may not need it: if you're e.g. connecting to a USB serial interface you can simply buy one that also does TTL levels (i.e., also doesn't have the conversion to ±12 V) and directly connect the PC-8001.

Aside from finding the edge connector adapter, is there a wiring diagram for the PC-8062 cable?
Yes, in the same document to which I already gave you a link. (There's lots of other useful information in there as well, and yet more in other files in that directory. All these files also include links to further information and references.)
 
I've finally managed to get some games working on my PC-8001BE. The other weekend I went to the Japanese event at the UK Centre for Computing History in Cambridge, and met with Roy Templeman who was showing some of his collection including a PC-8001 (imported from Japan). He kindly sent me a zip of 11 games in WAV format that can be played back from a PC into the cassette port of the PC-8001. I've uploaded this to Dropbox:
These are working for me also on the PC-8001. Took me awhile to realize you meant "G8100" as the address to GO after loading them. Also the original NEC cable I have is all mono-connectors. On a newer 2023 laptop (Win11), it wasn't switching over to the audio cables when I plugged them in. I had to use an older 2007 laptop to play the WAVs and was more friendly with the mono-plugs (which had Win10 64-bit installed on it).

The titles screens on these don't have a name or year - are they original 1979-1982 vintage stuff, or modern makes? They're pretty good.
EDIT: Ah, some of them have the modern year (2023), so modern makes. Still, neat to see what the system is capable of.

On one of the tapes that came with my system, it appears to have a command line version of ALICE. Or meaning, a text adventure style version. I believe there is a later "graphical text adventure" of Alice in Wonderland for this system (with some very slow-to-draw graphics), I wonder if this is a pre-cursor to that. This ALICE program takes a while to load (several minutes), and while the dialog/text is in Japanese, I found it responds to english commands (like "take key" or "open door" and "inventory" showing what I've picked up). Just I hardly know enough Japanese to really progress into its story.
 
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In the memory map, I see:
800A RS-232 Ch2
8008 RS-232 Ch1
Not sure what this means just yet, but I know a channel number is one of the arguments passed to TERM.

The TERM command is working for me on the PC-8001 hardware. I mean, it is an accepted command once I give the correct parameters. It would help to see what the PC-8062 cable looks like. After opening the PC-8001, I see only one empty 16-pin DIP socket - which I have to assume is connected to the 8251 nearby. So I'll prepare a 16-pin DIP to ribbon cable, but I'm not sure what NEC's plan was for tethering it out the back of the case (seeing the PC-8062 cable would give an idea).

Will be neat to see if the built in TERM software can actually talk to a WiModem232.

Have additional photos here:
 

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The PC-8001B manual on Archive.org has a whole section about how to use the terminal system, which I found useful to read since I don't have a manual of any kind! Starts here: https://archive.org/details/pc-8001b-micro-computer-users-manual-nec-en-1981/page/n54/mode/1up

Thank you to ksinfos for scanning this.

I am still wrestling with my PC-8033 clone interface and spent the weekend debugging something that (hopefully) turned out to be a corroded edge connector and a silly mistake when doing a pull-up. Hopefully this week I can clean the expansion edge and test again.
 
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In the memory map, I see:
800A RS-232 Ch2
8008 RS-232 Ch1
Not sure what this means just yet, but I know a channel number is one of the arguments passed to TERM.
I am guessing that Ch2 is the UART in the expansion unit, if you have one, and Ch1 is the on-board UART.

So I'll prepare a 16-pin DIP to ribbon cable, but I'm not sure what NEC's plan was for tethering it out the back of the case (seeing the PC-8062 cable would give an idea).
My guess would be that they bring a flat ribbon cable out the printer port cutout, which you'll notice is slightly taller than the adjacent expansion connector port cutout.

BTW, there's an error in specs at the start of that: the PC-8801 does V1 mode graphics, which are 640×200 in eight colours or 640×400 in two colours.
 
Thx, updated about the V1.

I tried the WAV playback of Mario Bro on the PC-8001, but no luck - it went on loading for 10+ minutes and the machine eventually just rebooted. I can load other stuff off WAV recordings, so I think the playback equipment is fine. Didn't try messing with volume. But maybe Mario Bro doesn't actually work on the original PC-8001?
 
The PC-8001 I have came with a Japanese copy of the users manual. Not sure if that is completely archive yet. But I made the attached PDF that has some pin-out info that I hadn't seen described as well elsewhere (I mean with also diagrams that are more explicit about which pin is which).
 

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The PC-8001 I have came with a Japanese copy of the users manual. Not sure if that is completely archive yet.
No, I have not been able to find a scanned copy of this manual anywhere. (This actually isn't unusual for Japanese manuals; JP folks seem reluctant to scan and share as they tend to be very concerned about copyright issues.) So if you could do a full scan of this and upload it to archive.org, that would be great! (Or I would be happy to do this if anybody wants to mail me a copy of the manual. Sadly, they come up only rarely on Yahoo Auctions here, and invariably only with a PC-8001 system.)

But I made the attached PDF that has some pin-out info that I hadn't seen described as well elsewhere (I mean with also diagrams that are more explicit about which pin is which).
Actually, all that information is also available on this page, but it's still nice to have it from the original. (And it's also now all in my PC-8001 notes as well, including references back to original sources.)

Oh, and the display and CMT outputs are pretty well documented; those PC-8001 pinouts pretty much set the standard for all microcomputers in Japan for the next half decade.
 
Thanks for the fix!

Unfortunately, a second upload under a new item name/URL (identical to my upload except for the hyphen between "8001" and "b") can be a bit confusing, especially for those who referenced the original URL. The filenames are the same, too, which means if you have a downloaded copy you can only tell whether you have the original or corrected version by examining the file itself.

(Also, it's probably worth mentioning that your publication date field, 2024-03-29, is wrong; the manual was published in 1981.)

Sadly, archive.org doesn't provide a huge amount of help for dealing with provenance and distinguishing multiple uploads. But to help current and future users, I've uploaded your new scan on my item as well, but also renaming the file from PC-8001B Micro Computer User's Manual (NEC, en, 1981).pdf to PC-8001B Micro Computer User's Manual (NEC, en, 1981, scan2).pdf. (I did this by adding the new file and deleting the old file and its derivations in that item using the "Edit" options for the item.) And I've also linked to your item.
 
No, I have not been able to find a scanned copy of this manual anywhere. (This actually isn't unusual for Japanese manuals; JP folks seem reluctant to scan and share as they tend to be very concerned about copyright issues.) ... the display and CMT outputs are pretty well documented; those PC-8001 pinouts pretty much set the standard for all microcomputers in Japan for the next half decade.

Ah, but without the diagrams, it's not obvious (to me) what the pinout order is (at least not being a DIN connector expert; like in that Japanese user manual the clockwise order of the CMT pins from 1 is 1-4-2-5-3-7-8-6. Also in that manual is the currently the only photo of that RS232 ribbon cable that I've come across!

Speaking of CMT, at first I wasn't sure if that was the cassette interface. In fact, initially I thought maybe it was referring to "Color Monitor/Television"! What did NEC intend for CMT to mean? Cassette Micro Tape?


Aside, does anyone know how in N-BASIC to query for a key press in BASIC? INPUT is blocking, so I mean something like "GET" to query for a key press. If no built in N-BASIC command for it, then it'll have to be done POKE'ing in an asm source. Anyway - if that were available, it seems it might be possible to write your own terminal program in BASIC (there are INPUT% and PRINT%, or maybe it was OUTPUT%, where it seems possible to direct bytes to/from the RS-232).

I can't get the RS-232 on the PC-8001 (or the 8001 MK II) to function reliably over 600 baud (at least not with the built in ROM term). And its support for backspace seems broken - it shows the "BS" control code, but doesn't actually move back.
 
Ah, but without the diagrams, it's not obvious (to me) what the pinout order is (at least not being a DIN connector expert...
Ah, right, there is that. That's what prompted me to write up some notes on the numbering, with particular attention to whether you're looking at a male or female connector, and in which direction you're looking. It still confuses me. :-(

Also in that manual is the currently the only photo of that RS232 ribbon cable that I've come across!
Yeah, that is an interesting photo, though not really very useful since it just confirms that they connected to that socket in the most obvious way. I'd love to get a look at the rest of it.

Speaking of CMT, at first I wasn't sure if that was the cassette interface. In fact, initially I thought maybe it was referring to "Color Monitor/Television"! What did NEC intend for CMT to mean? Cassette Micro Tape?
Possibly "Computer Magnetic Tape"? I don't know, but "CMT" seems to be a Japanese coinage, since it's used here in Japan pretty much everywhere, and I didn't even properly realise until recently that foreigners wouldn't understand it. :)

Aside, does anyone know how in N-BASIC to query for a key press in BASIC? INPUT is blocking, so I mean something like "GET" to query for a key press.
It's INKEY$, which returns an empty string if there's currently no keypress, otherwise the character. (It doesn't catch Ctrl-C or STOP, however, which still break the program.)

I can't get the RS-232 on the PC-8001 (or the 8001 MK II) to function reliably over 600 baud (at least not with the built in ROM term).
That seems odd. There is a 127 character buffer when the serial port is used from BASIC, though I am not sure if the same is true for TERM. But in assembly there should be plenty of speed to keep up with displaying 9600, or even 19k2 if you want to change out your crystal.

And its support for backspace seems broken - it shows the "BS" control code, but doesn't actually move back.
What happens when you press F6? That toggles "visible control code" display.
 
I was curious too. As far as I can tell, I think CMT stands for "cassette magnetic tape" in the Japanese hobbyist community. It might be a holdover from some marketing term, although you would think they'd use a Japanese-style acronym.

I still get DINs backward even when I have a photo reference to go from. It gets worse since most of my DIN adapters use a male-male cable so I don't have to make a cable..
 
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