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The New Z170 Motherboards

Plasma said:
IA64 was a commercial failure even in high-end markets, long before AMD64.
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Depends on who you ask, and what criteria you have. It wasn't the success that HP/Intel hoped it to be, but it did reach the second spot on the top 500 supercomputer list, and it was the 4th most popular CPU architecture in the world.
Of course, by x86 volumes, everything else is a failure.
Besides, the argument was never about commercial success, but about technical merits. Stop shifting the goal posts.

Plasma said:
You are missing my point. Because of AMD64 I could do CAD on a "regular" Windows XP box with 16GB of RAM. I no longer needed a "workstation".
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You're just fooling yourself.
Even today, 16 GB is not 'standard'. Back in 2007 as you claim, good luck finding a motherboard that even supported that amount of memory. Let's see... That would have been a socket AM2 board. Something like this, with the AMD 580X chipset being AMD's best offer at the time, if I'm not mistaken: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M2R32MVP/specifications/
Hey, but it only fits 8 GB max!
Same if you went shopping for nVidia chipsets instead:
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M3N72T_Deluxe/specifications/

Back then, 2 GB were the largest supported modules, and the upper-end mainstream boards only supported 4 slots max.

So yes, you'd have to shop in workstation class if you wanted more back in those days. So you were either using a workstation-class Opteron with workstation-class motherboard and chipset... or you were simply lying (didn't I already mention x86/AMD fanboys and their revisionist history? Thanks for proving my point!).
Looks like you needed one of these to get 16+ GB back in those days: http://www.accelertech.com/2007/amd_mb/all_amd_motherboard.php

Plasma said:
Nothing is based on hearsay; I lived and worked through the history. You don't want to turn this into a pissing contest.
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You already have your foot in your mouth. Never take a knife to a gun fight.
 
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Meanwhile back at the Z170 . . .

The Corsair case, Corsair H100i cooler, Asus Z170 motherboard, and the I-6700K all showed up yesterday morning via FedEx. The memory is supposed to be delivered by FedEx through USPS by this afternoon (hopefully). BTW, the PS is from my old AMD Asus Sabertooth 990FX lash-up. It's an Antec 900 watt unit which has been a great performer for the last 3 or 4 years. I know some have poo-poo'd Antec as their quality (reportedly) has slipped some, but that's not the case with my unit. Every component is installed in the new case and the wiring is in place. The Cooler appears very nondescript and looks like it's part of the motherboard instead of a 'bolt-on'. The one item you would really appreciate is the case itself; a Corsair Vengeance Series C70 Military mid-tower, done in olive drab. It looks like a big ammo can. The thing is all steel, no aluminum or plastic save for the on/off/re-boot switches, and the Plexiglas window on the left side. With any luck the memory will be here in a little while and I can fire it up and have a little more to talk about.
 
Z170 Project Update:

The new Asus Z170 Deluxe motherboard, Intel i7 6700K processor, G.Skill Ripjaws 16 GB DDR4 memory, Corsair Series 70 Vengeance case, Corsair H100i liquid cooler, twin XFX 7970 video cards, and last but not least, the ancient Antec 900 watts PS are all up and running. This was no walk in the park in putting it all together. First off the BIOS (ver. 1402) needed to be upgraded right off the the bat. The raw BIOS files are issued with a long descriptive name with a 'CAP' suffix, as opposed to the usual 'ROM'. The Asus web site normally provides an utility for renaming the raw BIOS files, however, it disappeared a few days ago. The procedure calls for a SSD no larger than 64 GB, and formatted to FAT32. The mobo is capable of upgrading the BIOS with out a video card, CPU, or system memory. You simply load the new BIOS file into the SSD and select a 'green' USB 2 port on the rear panel and then push the 'BIOS Update' button on the mobo. A green led comes on and blinks for about 3 or 4 minutes and that's it, BIOS is upgraded. I had to call Asus Tech Support to inquire about the missing renaming utility. They didn't have a clue but offered a simple workaround; just rename the raw file to 'Z170D.CAP' and it must be in caps. That tip worked just fine.

The old BIOS would not let me add more than 1 stick (4 GB) of memory, and it had to be in slot B1 of slots A1-B1-A2-B2. Also, the BIOS wouldn't recognize the 7970 video cards, so I was forced to use an old ATI PCIe video card, which the system accepted. Once the BIOS was upgraded, I proceeded to add the rest of the memory, but you're not out of the woods yet. When you add or subtract memory modules, you must push the 'MEM' button the on the mobo, which in turn cycles the system around, takes inventory, then finally accepts the new configuration. All of this is visible via a 2 digit hex display unit on the mobo. The next step was to add one of the 2 XFX 7970 video cards. I installed the card, fired up the system and wow, no video. Just about panic time as stories abound on the various forums about QVL this and QVL that. I thought about it for 10 or 15 minutes, and was just about to call Asus back, when I had a feeble idea. If the 'MEM' button could install memory modules, maybe it would work for video cards. Happy days are here again as that worked - an undocumented feature. Another feature I like is the built in WiFi. Asus provides a small collapsible magnetic antenna and a cable which plugs into the back of the mobo panel. There is a utility which takes your modem ID and that's it, you're now on-line.

There was no need to reinstall W10. The new Asus chipset drivers slipped into place and continuity prevailed. After the PC ran for a few hours, I noticed a 'water mark' looking pop-up in the lower right hand corner the screen. It was MS telling me that my W10 was not activated. I Googled that, and came across MS's explanation of what you could do to make it right again, and I didn't like any of their options. For what ever reason, I retrieved my original Windows 8 setup box and it still had the little business-type-looking card in the slot on the inside cover, so I used those numbers to reactivate the W10 and it worked. I imagine a phone call to MS and it could have been worked out just as well. :D
 
Agent Orange said:
The old BIOS would not let me add more than 1 stick (4 GB) of memory...the BIOS wouldn't recognize the 7970 video cards...When you add or subtract memory modules, you must push the 'MEM' button the on the mobo
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This is really unacceptable. How can a motherboard be that unusable out of the box (and require a BIOS update to be usable)? Why on earth wouldn't a modern video card work in a modern motherboard?

And why do you have to push a button to get the system to recognize more memory?! That is bananas. I think you've successfully turned me away from buying ASUS.
 
Trixter said:
This is really unacceptable. How can a motherboard be that unusable out of the box (and require a BIOS update to be usable)? Why on earth wouldn't a modern video card work in a modern motherboard?

And why do you have to push a button to get the system to recognize more memory?! That is bananas. I think you've successfully turned me away from buying ASUS.
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Once you've been though the process, it kind of makes sense. If you were on the outside and looking in however, it's like a hellish nightmare. The Z170 Deluxe has had 9 BIOS updates since its initial release late last year, the 1st was 0504 and now the number is up to 1602. I sent the 1st mobo back to Newegg because of hex code '00' - failure to recognize the CPU. Had there been a flyer or something in the box, I would have immediately upgraded the BIOS. So, the lesson here is don't do a thing until you have the latest BIOS. I think this "new way" of board design is now industry wide. Other than 'a lack of communication' between Asus and the end user, the board is an engineering marvel and the workmanship is impeccable. The overall quality, in my estimation, is top notch. Another point is the QVL's. If you are bent on building a new system, you had better do your research concerning the acceptability of components. On most of the builder's sites, the main complaint seems to be the wrong RAM choice, and next, video cards. So, if you have a bucket full of older parts, please beware. I think the best way to go for a fresh start is to research the motherboard requirements thoroughly before jumping in with both feet. Another little 'gotcha' is the included mobo software. An integral part of the installation process is Asus's AI Suite III. Problem is it doesn't install properly under W10. Some users have gotten it to work using the compatibility mode, but I didn't have any luck. You need this software package to be able to take advantage of the mobo's advanced features and touted 5-way overclocking. It's hard to believe that Asus would release that software without fully testing it across all platforms and OS's. After all, W10 has been in the field for quite a while now. I was told by their tech's that a fix is forthcoming, but for now, I doubt that I'll see 4.6/4.7 GHz until AI Suite III gets installed.
 
Agent Orange said:
I sent the 1st mobo back to Newegg because of hex code '00' - failure to recognize the CPU.
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I think I missed something: You can upgrade the BIOS even without a CPU installed in the motherboard? (The last time I ran into this, I had to downgrade my CPU to flash an updated BIOS.) I suppose this is more acceptable, although not working with a video card isn't. The system should be able to boot in text mode using the BIOS only with any video card installed in the system.

I doubt that I'll see 4.6/4.7 GHz until AI Suite III gets installed.
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I'll likely never see it since I only do air cooling :)

Your ringing endorsement has me re-evaluating this config. I may PM you closer to the time I want to upgrade; my i7-920 is starting to show its age. I only upgrade when I can guarantee 2x or faster media encoding performance, so I might want you to run a benchmark to confirm that DDR4 and a Skylake can do it.
 
Trixter said:
I think I missed something: You can upgrade the BIOS even without a CPU installed in the motherboard? (The last time I ran into this, I had to downgrade my CPU to flash an updated BIOS.) I suppose this is more acceptable, although not working with a video card isn't. The system should be able to boot in text mode using the BIOS only with any video card installed in the system.




I'll likely never see it since I only do air cooling :)

Your ringing endorsement has me re-evaluating this config. I may PM you closer to the time I want to upgrade; my i7-920 is starting to show its age. I only upgrade when I can guarantee 2x or faster media encoding performance, so I might want you to run a benchmark to confirm that DDR4 and a Skylake can do it.
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Happy to oblige. BTW, as far as cooling goes, liquid is only slightly more these days. The Corsair 100i was about $100, and that's about what you're going to pay for a quality fan for your Skylake. The liquid system in this install is very unobtrusive and looks pretty good too. Also, if you are not stressing your video card(s), you can't hear this thing at all.+
 
You mean gone are the days when you had a giant water pump next to your system, whose noise was louder than a stock cooler after the pump wore out after 3 months? (kidding -- noisy pump turned me off from water cooling a decade ago)
 
Trixter said:
You mean gone are the days when you had a giant water pump next to your system, whose noise was louder than a stock cooler after the pump wore out after 3 months? (kidding -- noisy pump turned me off from water cooling a decade ago)
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I have two of them now. The other one was for the old 8350 on the AMD Sabertooth rig. This one is slightly smaller and it takes up less room than a fan.
 
Here's a screen shot of my Z170 Deluxe's first run. Please note the there is no OC or tune ups - bog standard right out of the box.


 

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Very nice. Mine is attached; I'm not doing SLI or have a modern rig (CPU is 7 years old) but I think it's pretty respectable. (CPU overclocked, GPU stock)

myscore.jpg
 
I finally succeeding in getting the Asus AI-Suite III to load on the Z170 Deluxe. The work-around was using W10's 'Update & Security' function to invoke a safe mode startup under the Recover function. The menu selections let you choose a somewhat normal type startup without loading anti-virus/malware programs. The package installed without a hitch and a reboot was all that was required.

The 'Dual Intelligent Processor 5' OC functions will put you right up there with those 'OC snobs' that you always envied. :p The process is almost too easy to believe. I ran the program in increments, about 4 times, and the 6700K waltzed right up to 4.7 GHz without any problems, and took the memory right along for the ride. Later on I tried to get to 4.8 but it didn't want to go past 4.75. I believe you are getting into an unstable area which can generate a fair amount of heat, and not much of a performance reward for the trouble.

Here are some screen shots of 3DMark 11's run in Entry and Performance modes:

3D-021616.jpg 3D021616-2.jpg IntelProc.jpg

Entry = 1024 x 600 & Performance = 1280 x 720
 
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Z170 Deluxe Project Update.

Once upon a time when I purchased my XFX 7970 Ghost video cards, they came with a voucher for 3 or 4 games via Steam (not a steam fan). It took me a while to find my user name and passwords, but eventually I was able to install Hit Man, Sleeping Dogs, Duke Nukem Forever, and Doom 3 BFG. Other than Doom, not much to write home about. Anyway, I wanted to use them as a yard stick for the video. Using FRAPS, I consistently saw 60-64 FPS across all of the games. Considering that this is new build, and I not all that familiar with AMD's new Crimson driver set, I felt kind of good about it. I reran the Heaven benchmark and checked it against some others on 'techpowerup.com', and the figures are right up there. It should be noted that I run the benchmarks at my normal/gaming settings - 2560 x 1440. Some don't as they would rather impress with the high FPS's. If there is down side to this build, it's in knowing that there isn't a whole lot of upward mobility when you start out almost near the top. Maybe later on in the year I'll take a look at video cards.

H021916.jpg

 
Z170 Deluxe Project Update.

Had occasion to update the BIOS from 1602 to 1702 this evening. Seems like Asus issues a new version about once a month. Looking back to when the motherboard was new last month, the update to 1602 was made by inserting a 4 GB FAT-32 thumb drive into a designated USB 2.0 slot on the feature riser in the rear. All that was required was that the PS be plugged into the motherboard, power applied, and then push the BIOS update button, memory and/or video not required (really cool). This time around, I downloaded and unzipped 1702, then renamed the BIOS file to Z170D.CAP, the prescribed convention. I randomly selected one of the front USB ports and did the upgrade via the UEFI setup, and it worked flawlessly. After the BIOS upgrade, it was necessary to run the 'Dual Intelligent Processors 5' utility and the system re-clocked to 4.7 GHz. So far so good.
 
Z170 Deluxe Project Update.

I received my second Asus Geforce GTX 1080 Sunday morning from Amazon via USPS. It only took a few minutes to install the new card and setup for SLI. The following is a benchmark run using 3DMARK 11 EXTREME & Heaven:

3DMark 10-31-2013.jpg Heaven 10-31-2016.JPG

 
Z170 Update

The final piece of the project arrived yesterday from Newegg via FedEx. It's supposed to be a Christmas present from my Sweetie, but I convinced her to let me open the box to ensure that there was no damage in transit, heh. All was well and the Asus ROG Swift PG27AQ is a thing of beauty.

After several months of searching and evaluating all of the reviews that I could handle on high end gaming monitors, I decided on the Asus PG27AQ over the Acer Predator XB271HK. Both monitors have basically the same features; 27 inch, 4K IPS (3840 x 2160), G-Sync, and a 4 ms response time. My decision was based on the economics; i.e., the Acers's price jumped from about $812 NIB to $899 or more right at "Black Friday". I intended to purchase a factory refurbished unit, but none were available. Over on the Asus site, a refurbed PG27AQ popped up for $699.00 and I went for it. I also opted for the 2 year warranty replacement which was only $65. She won't let me set it up on my system until after Christmas, and that makes feel like a little kid again.

The following is an inventory of the project build:


  • Asus Z170-Deluxe motherboard
  • Intel I-6700K CPU
  • GSkill Ripjaws 4 x 4 GB PC4 24000 RAM
  • Corsair Vengeance Series C70 case
  • Corsair Hydro Series H100i GTX cooling
  • Antec 900w power supply
  • Asus GeForce GTX 1080 Turbo x 2 video cards
  • Samsung 950 Pro M.2 512 GB SSD
  • Western Digital 600 GB Velociraptor HD x 2
  • Razor Programmable gaming keyboard
  • Logitech M705 mouse
  • Windows 10 Pro OS

I attempted to upgrade the power supply back last summer and went with an EVGA Super Nova 1200 Gold. Turned out that the video rails were DOA and I had to return it. I intend to look into the power supply issue again after the first of the year. The Antec that I'm using now is about 6 or so years old and I feel that I've got too much invested in this system to be skimping on the power supply. :thumbsup:
 
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Z170 Update

The Seasonic 850 arrived this morning and is now installed. It came in a black velvet bag not unlike Seagram's Crown Royal. This is my first all modular PS and it sure makes for a tidy install with a minimum of cabling. I had the PC setting on my work table and fired it up for a check and test before putting the side covers back on. There are small LEDs on the rear of the 1080's, one was glowing blue and the other red - should have been a tip off. I glanced at the monitor and there was a message scrawled about a half inch high across the screen that said "Power down and connect your video card". I forgot to plug in one of the cards.

The new Asus Swift PG27AQ is now installed and the 4K experience doesn't disappoint. I was fooling around with 'Hitman: Absolution' and ran the in-game benchmark with all of the settings cranked up. The minimum FPS bottomed out at 72.0 while the maximum FPS hit 100.0 with the average FPS at 82.53285.
 
Agent Orange said:
Anyone Contemplating building or has already built a new Z170 rig? I'm looking at an Asus Sabertooth Z170 Mark 1 1151, along with the Skylake I7-6700K. Big departure for me, as I've been an AMD fan for just about ever.
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I got this for my son at Christmas this year:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B013E37MD2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

we fitted a 6700k and 32GB of Ram, the machine literally flies, he had an i5 before and its so much faster.
 
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