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TRSDOS vs. LS-DOS compatibility?

geowar1

Experienced Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
71
TRS-80 Model 4 noob here… Got a bunch of floppies; some TRSDOS and others LS-DOS.
Are these OS’s in any way interchangeable?
Or will their apps only run on one or the other OS?
Can ether at least read the other’s disks?
LS-DOS seems newer… is it at least backwards compatible to TRSDOS?
Inquiring (ignorant) minds (mine) want to know!
;-)
 
LS-DOS is basically the last version of TRS-DOS 6.x. So yes, LS-DOS is backwards compatible specifically with that. Now if you have any disks that say "LDOS" or TRSDOS 1.3 on them that's completely a different kettle of fish.

Confusing history, if you care:

TRSDOS for the original TRS-80 Model I was rewritten by its original author into a third-party DOS called VTOS after the relationship between its author and Radio Shack went sour. Then a company called Logical Systems, which was intimately connected to a company called Lobo Drives, licensed VTOS, renaming it "LDOS", to use on their line of TRS-80 compatible expansion hardware and, ultimately, a semi-TRS-80-clone computer. LDOS became a popular DOS choice for the TRS-80 Models I and III, enough so that when Radio Shack gave in and started selling hard disk drives for those systems they elected to sell LDOS as the OS to use with them instead of trying to fix the kind of half-***ed TRSDOS they'd written in-house for the Model III. (Which was kind of a weird hybrid of the original Model I DOS and the DOS they'd written for the Model II, a completely different computer.) Thus when Radio Shack decided to upgrade the Model III to the Model 4 they decided to contract the work for the new OS it needed out to Logical Systems instead of making another hash of it in-house. So... TRSDOS 6 was born, based heavily on LDOS 5.1 for the previous computers and using the same disk format, but not program compatible with it because of the many hardware differences between Model III and Model 4 mode. There were a couple versions of this new OS issued under the TRSDOS label, but when the end of the road was clear for the TRS-80 line Radio Shack completely handed the ball back to Logical Systems and thus the last and final version came out under the "LS-DOS" name instead.

Anyway, if you're staring at a pile of disks that came with a Model 4, which also emulates a Model III, here's the rundown:

TRSDOS 1.3 = Model III mode, only compatible with itself
LDOS 5.x = Model III mode, program compatible with TRS-DOS 1.3 (mostly), but you have to jump through a hoop to copy programs over.
TRSDOS 6.x/LS-DOS 6.3 = Model 4 mode, not program compatible with either Model III DOS, data disk compatible with LDOS.

(And if you have any disks that say DOSPLUS/MultiDOS/NEWDOS-80... consider yourself lucky, you've stumbled across the hoard of a true TRS-80 connoisseur! But sorting out compatibility for all these is a huge kettle of fish. Suffice to say these are all Model III DOSes except for a couple rare versions of DOSPLUS and MultiDOS, they're all better than TRSDOS 1.3, but they're kind of off the main "evolutionary tree" that runs through LDOS.)
 
Excellent! I don’t think I have any model 3 software (OS or apps).
How compatible are programs for the original TRS-80 on the model 4?
 
How compatible are programs for the original TRS-80 on the model 4?

If by the original you mean the Model I, well, pretty compatible if you're in Model III mode. (Especially if you use a DOS other than TRSDOS 1.3; almost all the third-party DOSes have better compatibility between the Model I and Model III than TRSDOS.) Other than one minor keyboard mapping oddity and the printer port and disk hardware (the latter necessitating machine-specific DOS versions) they're practically the same computer, the III was just more reliable and had some bugfixes.

If the Model 4 is in Model 4 mode, not at all. It's basically a completely different computer. Even BASIC programs need a fair amount of work, almost as much as porting them to a PC with BASICA/GW-BASIC. So you'll definitely want to lay hands on a Model III DOS disk if you're interested in playing with Model I software.

(Almost all games for the TRS-80 line run on the Model I/III. There's a tiny handful of adventure and high-res graphics games for Model 4, that's about it.)
 
I didn’t have any issues running “Temple of Asphi” or “13 ghosts” on my M4. I have about six games disk for TRS-80 (I assume model 1)… they all seem to run just fine on my M4.

IIRC I booted to LSDOS 6… and ran the games off the second drive.
 
I think there was a Model 4 native version of 13 Ghosts. As for the others, well, there may have been conversions out there I'm not aware of, but unless LS-DOS has some kind of mode-switching function built into it (which I guess is a possibility, the only version of Model 4 DOS I've ever used was the older TRSDOS labeled ones, although I'd think it would have been a pretty major feature) Model I/III games won't work without some level of conversion.

When you launch these games does the video mode switch from the 80x24 screen to a 64x16 format?
 
IIRC there’s a key sequence (3, F3) to boot a model 4 into model 3 mode.
 
IIRC there’s a key sequence (3, F3) to boot a model 4 into model 3 mode.

Is this an LS-DOS thing? I have a Model 4, that I used almost entirely in Model III mode because I had very little 4 software, and the desktop Model 4 powers on in Model III mode; Model 4 DOSes switch it at boot. Holding down the break key on reset/power on drops you into the Model III BASIC instead of booting a disk.
 
I’ve not a clue… I just remember reading about it: Model 4 tips & tricks

The 4P is a different animal than the 4. (Do you have a desktop 4 or a 4P? Guess you haven’t really said.) The 4P is missing some of the Model III mode hardware (mainly the BASIC ROM, which it has to load a copy of from disk), so its boot cycle is completely different. It *tries* to recognize Model III disks and switch automatically, but it’s not perfect at it. (And there’s edge cases, like having to boot disks that you can’t install that BASIC ROM file on.)

Once booted into III mode the 4P is still pretty compatible with the old software, but it’s not *native* to it like it is on the desktop 4.
 
Congratulation! You have stumbled across one of the greatest operating systems of all time.

Lowen opened another thread comparing TRSDOS/LSDOS to CPM and everyone agreed 100% that LSDOS is far superior to CPM. You may want to read this thread. It reinforces in your mind how great LSDOS is!

Looks like you got some good answers on what you can and cannot interchange at disk level.

You might also download XMODEM which would allow you to download files between OS platforms using a null modem cable (a simple laplink).
 
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