Unknown version of The Incredible Machine

[vol.2]

Does anyone know what this version of The Incredible Machine Version 3.0 is? The disc looks a bit different and the case is red instead of black. It has the original manual booklet. What's weird is that it doesn't appear to include the CD Audio on it? I can't seem to play it like a CD anyway. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong?

 

[user121971]

That looks like the original version. My kids used to love that game back in the late 90's. If it's not already there it would be great if you could upload the iso to the internet archive site.

 

[vol.2]

That looks like the original version. My kids used to love that game back in the late 90's. If it's not already there it would be great if you could upload the iso to the internet archive site.

According to the internet, it is not the original version. It's probably from one of the multigame packs and, as far as I can tell, it's missing the CD audio and might be missing some other things. I wish I could say exactly where it came from for sure, but I don't remember the exact store I got it from or whatever pack it's from. I used to buy a lot of the reissue, repackage collections from Sierra and Lucasarts in the late 90s and early 2000s, and it's tough to keep track of which games came from which pack, and I don't have all the boxes anymore either.

The actual original version is already on the archive, and all of the games are also available to buy on GOG in one big pack with the CD soundtrack as a download.

The original discs seem to look like this:

 

[Timo W.]

There were tons of different releases. See here:

The Incredible Machine 2 Releases - MobyGames

Detailed release information for The Incredible Machine 2. Including release dates, countries, product codes, publishers, developers and other credited companies.

www.mobygames.com

(and yes, "TIM 2" and "TIM version 3.0" are the same game)

What you call "original" is the US release. The other one might be the EU/UK release, or maybe it's from the Sierra Classics, as the CD looks exactly as those normally do.

 

[vol.2]

There were tons of different releases. See here:

The Incredible Machine 2 Releases - MobyGames

Detailed release information for The Incredible Machine 2. Including release dates, countries, product codes, publishers, developers and other credited companies.

www.mobygames.com

(and yes, "TIM 2" and "TIM version 3.0" are the same game)

What you call "original" is the US release. The other one might be the EU/UK release, or maybe it's from the Sierra Classics, as the CD looks exactly as those normally do.

Yes. Thanks Timo. I actually am aware of the website Mobygames already. I tried looking there first, but they don't have a picture of the CDROM that I have, so there's no way for me to associate it with a specific release. I also checked redump.org and none of the CDROM versions documented there have the same identifying marks that are present on the inner ring of my disc. http://redump.org/discs/quicksearch/incredible-machine/

I believe it's got to be a US copy of some sort, because I definitely purchased it here.

 

[Plasma]

I have three versions of TIM 3.0, but they all look like the disc in your second post and they all have audio tracks. However, I also have multiple versions of The Even More Incredible Machine, and some don't have audio tracks. So it was something Sierra did sometimes, for whatever reason (cost?). I have never seen Sierra use colored jewel cases, so the red case is probably not original. This looks like your version. There is no back insert with UPC, so it must have been in a box or bundled with something else.

Another odd thing about boxed copies of TIM 3.0 is that Sierra sold distinct "Windows" and "Mac" versions, but the inside contents are the same. The Mac box always sells for less, so if you are a collector you can save some money with that version.

As you have discovered, MobyGames and Redump are often incomplete. It's unfortunate but inevitable, trying to document so many games, all with multiple versions, and decades after they were sold.

 

[MAZter]

I have two 3.0 versions CD, one with audio tracks & another without, I believe both original, here scans:

 

[vol.2]

I also have multiple versions of The Even More Incredible Machine, and some don't have audio tracks. So it was something Sierra did sometimes, for whatever reason (cost?).

I can't imagine it has anything to do with cost. There isn't anything special about the hybrid discs other than the data on them. I think it's more likely an oversight or laziness.

I have never seen Sierra use colored jewel cases, so the red case is probably not original. This looks like your version. There is no back insert with UPC, so it must have been in a box or bundled with something else.

It's original. I was one who purchased it, and I have never swapped out CD jewel cases for different colored ones before; nor have I ever purchased empty jewel cases. Also, the red color isn't pure red, it's a little bit magenta and it perfectly matches the color on the instruction booklet.

 

[Plasma]

I can't imagine it has anything to do with cost. There isn't anything special about the hybrid discs other than the data on them. I think it's more likely an oversight or laziness.

Cost is not only manufacturing but also licensing. Sierra may have been paying royalties on the music tracks. I think if they were lazy they would just duplicate the original master.

 

[vol.2]

Cost is not only manufacturing but also licensing. Sierra may have been paying royalties on the music tracks. I think if they were lazy they would just duplicate the original master.

The CD tracks are the same music as the midi tracks or the FM tracks. All of the different sound options are slightly different versions of all the same songs, there's nothing special about the CD music that makes it any more or less different than any of the other versions (GM, SC, SB) are from each other.

No, I think someone just burned it as a data CDROM instead of a hybrid one either because they didn't know the CD music was there, or because they didn't burn it from a disc, but an ISO file.

 

[Plasma]

Several of the audio tracks for TIM 3.0 are recordings by actual musicians and have lyrics. They would require a master license to reproduce, vs a mechanical license for other forms like MIDI.

Or maybe Sierra was just tired of tech support calls from customers who didn't have the CD audio cable connected. Whether the omission of audio tracks was a mistake or intentional, it's all just speculation unless someone has inside information. But it is something Sierra has done multiple times.

Also commercial CDs are pressed, not burned. It's not like some guy just clicked the wrong button in EasyCD.

 

[vol.2]

Several of the audio tracks for TIM 3.0 are recordings by actual musicians and have lyrics. They would require a master license to reproduce, vs a mechanical license for other forms like MIDI.

I have heard them and know what they sound like. If the songs were commissioned and paid for as part of the game, they belong to Sierra and Sierra can do whatever it wants with them. The musician would have to "put it into their contract" that they would continue to own the rights to the songs and that they were only "licensed" to be used for a single release (which we already know isn't true because there are multiple versions with the CD music).

That sounds incredibly unlikely. These songs (especially the ones with lyrics) are joke songs with lyrics quite specific to the game and not tracks taken from albums or something. It would be shocking if Sierra didn't own the writes to only the CD versions of the songs (which were presumably created by the same team that did the midi and FM versions) and that somehow they did own the instrumental versions of these songs because of the lyrics and real guitars. I don't buy that

There's the odd soundtrack here and there that has a high profile musician attached and the rights to the music are at best in a "grey area," or music that was clearly just licensed (like GTA), but this kind of "commissioned for a game" music isn't that. Also, we know that the soundtrack is owned by Microsoft because the CD soundtrack is freely available with the digital release as a soundtrack.

 

[Plasma]

You are making a lot of assumptions. Unless you worked at Sierra, you don't know what the agreement was. If I was asked to compose and record music for a game, I would request a flat fee plus per copy royalties. Decades later after the majority of copies have sold, I would also consider selling the rights. So the fact that Microsoft owns the music rights now, doesn't mean that Sierra always owned them.

 

[vol.2]

You are making a lot of assumptions. Unless you worked at Sierra, you don't know what the agreement was. If I was asked to compose and record music for a game, I would request a flat fee plus per copy royalties. Decades later after the majority of copies have sold, I would also consider selling the rights. So the fact that Microsoft owns the music rights now, doesn't mean that Sierra always owned them.

The CD version of the soundtrack was not initially included in the digital release of TIM. It was added later on at the request of people in the forums who missed having it. I do not believe that they would have gone out of their way to spend money on purchasing the rights to the CD soundtrack, entirely omit it from the release, and then add it as an afterthought on the request of a few forum members. Nor do I believe they would have tracked down the owners and paid them for it to satisfy some folks on the forums that were slightly disappointed it was missing.

Yes, there's no confirmation from GOG or Steam as to all of this, but it looks like a duck and smells like a duck and tastes like a duck.

If I was asked to compose and record music for a game, I would request a flat fee plus per copy royalties.

The soundtrack to TIM was not contracted, the whole soundtrack (except for "Pictures" by Russian composer Modest Mussorgsky) was composed by Tim Clarke and Christopher Stevens, who were Sierra employees who's job it was to make music for Sierra games (similar to Mark Sibert). The CD audio versions of the songs were played by them and by session musicians that were hired for their time. The electronic versions were done by them alone. They also worked on a bunch of other games. Do you think they sat on the rights to Willy Beamish soundtrack for 20 years as well? How about Space Quest 5?

I think this is all down to "apathy" on the part of those doing the reissuing. They didn't care enough to be careful about putting the CD audio in the release, or they just didn't even think about it because the digital music is present in the game anyway, so "who cares?"

 

[Plasma]

Yes, I'm sure it must have been that Sierra made a giant disc mastering error, and nobody noticed. Multiple times.