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USB-MIDI Converter?

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raoulduke

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Hey, for a while I've been progressively assembling my vintage studio. I doubt I'll use it over my modern PC, but I would like to test it. One component of this is using a MIDI keyboard on my Amiga 2000. Sadly I threw out all my MIDI keyboards 10 years ago. I'm looking for a cheap one near me. But as an alternative, I have a modern USB keyboard and I was looking around and found this - https://www.amazon.com/VicTsing-Cable-Converter-Keyboard-Adapter/dp/B00ACGMOA6

If I'm reading this one right it clearly won't work. It has a built in driver, meaning it's going to be purely one way to a USB-based computer (probably only with Windows). What I want is something to convert a USB keyboard signal to MIDI. On some level that has to be possible because that's what happens once the (modern) computer reads input from the keyboard. Actually... As I think about this... is there a way to configure my RPII to do it?

https://www.midi.org/forum/is-there...tion-on-a-keyboard-to-a-conventional-midi-out - Not sure that's on point. What I really need is something that receives input from a usb (piano) keyboard and converts it to MIDI output. Actually I guess the SevillaSoft device is. It's just really expensive. I wonder if I could just figure out the schematics from his picture.
 
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I reassembled my (vintage?) studio two years ago. I started out by trying to use a modern PC with USB MIDI to control all my (now) old MIDI gear. That was totally useless. The random latency meant only using the MIDI gear as inputs to the PC, and only using the PC to play software synths. Even then I would have to quantize and do a lot of editing to clean up the timing. So I went through a lot of serious trouble to revive an Amiga 3000 to handle all my MIDI sequencing. It works like a dream.

I think what I did was the reverse of what you are trying to do. I've never seen a MIDI controller nor synth with USB, but that's probably because I don't look at a lot of that kind of gear!

What exactly is the keyboard you have? Are you trying to use it as a controller, or synth, or both? MIDI controller keyboards were a dime a dozen the last time I checked (two years ago), but since I didn't need that I never bought one. MIDI synths are still very common; I've bought two brand new ones in the last two years.

Maybe USB can work for you, but if I were you I'd avoid it like the plague.
 
Interesting. I have an AKAI Synthstation 49. I don't know terminology; I used MIDI when I was a kid and not really after. But I suspect it is a controller within this meaning because it can control MIDI software. I was going to make that point earlier and forgot: that in theory what I'm saying should be possible because at some level - either software on the PC or via the keyboard itself - it must be compatible with MIDI. So if the issue is purely MIDI out I think there must be some way to do it with a Raspberry PI (or something) manually wired to a MIDI cable. I mean look I'll find a MIDI keyboard (like an old one) but now I'm honestly kind of curious.
 
raoulduke said:
Interesting. I have an AKAI Synthstation 49. I don't know terminology; I used MIDI when I was a kid and not really after. But I suspect it is a controller within this meaning because it can control MIDI software. I was going to make that point earlier and forgot: that in theory what I'm saying should be possible because at some level - either software on the PC or via the keyboard itself - it must be compatible with MIDI. So if the issue is purely MIDI out I think there must be some way to do it with a Raspberry PI (or something) manually wired to a MIDI cable. I mean look I'll find a MIDI keyboard (like an old one) but now I'm honestly kind of curious.
Click to expand...

Well MIDI is mostly well specified, but there are many options. So basically you get a "note on" message when some presses a key, followed by a "note off" when they release it. Some keyboards don't send a "note off" they send a "note on" with a zero weight or velocity. There are two challenges for some one who wants to do the things you are trying to do. Firstly the MIDI hardware interface is slightly "odd-ball" in that its current loop and runs at a non-standard rate. The second is that any processing delay may cause issues, for example when you play chords.

If I was going to experiment with MIDI I think I would choose the Arduino platform over the PI. There are several MIDI Shields e.g. :-

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12898

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222098541648

and maintaining precise timing on Arduino is usually easier than on the PI. You can also get a USB host shield to plug your existing keyboard into but I guess lots of coding would be needed.

Having said all that I then came up with this:-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131810981868

which looks a lot of fun, and works with many USB 2 MIDI adaptors such as the one you mentioned at the sstart
 
I think if I were you I'd just get an old controller keyboard with DIN MIDI connectors and use a USB-to-MIDI cable to hook it to your computer when necessary. It's easier than trying to deal with the ridiculous MIDI-over-USB stuff, because damn near every single piece of equipment made with those connectors is built with the assumption that "DAW sequencing hardware synths with no external controllers" is the only setup anyone would ever want or need. It's an entire sub-standard designed for Macbook DJs.
 
It says it supports MIDI. Are you sure there are no other connectors? If not DIN, maybe TRS?

I've seen several modern pieces of gear that don't have DIN MIDI connectors installed but have internal connectionos for them!

Maybe it has Virtual MIDI. After all, it has a virtual owner's manual. I downloaded it and it's a zero length file.
 
Well, I've got two of those shown in the Amazon ad. They do work--and I don't recall installing drivers. I've run them on XP and Ubuntu using Sibelius, Finale and MuseScore with no issues. They drive my ancient Casio WK1200 keyboard.

However, you should note that my choice of applications indicates that I'm interested in transcription, not performance. So, while the USB thingummies suit my need, they may not do so for a serious MIDI user.

I suspect that basically, they're little more than a USB-to-serial dongle internally.
 
Raoulduke:

Music keyboards with USB connectors on look like a MIDI input to whatever USB host system you connect them to.
USB to DIN MIDI cables look like a MIDI input -and- a MIDI output to whatever USB host system you connect them to.

If you connect them both to a Raspberry Pi, you should then have 2 MIDI inputs and one MIDI output.

However, you need some kind of software - or something - to make the info flow from one to the other.

Here's one possible way to do it:
-On the Raspberry Pi, install a MIDI sequencer program.
-Plug your USB-only music keyboard into one USB port on the Pi and in the sequencer program's setup, select the USB keyboard as the MIDI INPUT.
-Plug your USB to DIN MIDI cable into another USB port on the Pi and in the sequencer program's setup, select the the USB to DIN MIDI cable as the MIDI OUTPUT.
-Finally, in the sequencer program's setup, turn on MIDI THRU.

Everything you play on the USB music keyboard will now be echoed out through the DIN MIDI output on the USB to DIN MIDI cable.

Will that get you going?

Command line gurus - people who are better at Linux than I am - could probably suggest a simple one-line terminal command which will continually pipe everything which comes in from the keyboard MIDI input straight out to the cable MIDI output without the need for any additional software, but that will require you to identify the Linux device names of the two devices. If that's outside of your comfort zone, just try the method I suggested.

Edit: Here's the command line method quite nicely described.

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/send-midi-from-usb-b-to-5-pin/
 
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Hmm... yeah that will work and the closest actual MIDI keyboard I found is far away and $30. So maybe I'll try that first and see how the latency is. I mean worst case scenario I can also just play it on a modern machine and export the MIDI file, although at that rate I'm not sure I need the Amiga...

Thanks everyone.
 
Point me in the right direction. I've found two - neither very close - one for $50 and one for $30; the latter has responded but it's a long drive and - frankly and (partly) for that reason - not a compelling price. I haven't responded yet.
 
Aren't there music shops near you? Cascio's Interstate Music or the like? Heck I'm pretty sure I've mail-ordered from music shops in your vicinity.

There's always Musician's Friend or even Amazone.
 
$30-50 is about as cheap as you're going to find any MIDI keyboard this side of a garage-sale toy with no velocity response. I'd grab one of those.
 
There are lots of music shops but I agree with Commodore John. So if it's $8 for a cable, I'll scour my basement to see if I still have one of those MIDI cables or I'll wait until I find a random $10-20 one in a thrift shop - which so far as a strategy has not worked yet over the last year.

To be honest I haven't tried hard bc I don't care that much about either the 'vintage studio' or MIDI specifically within that. And as I've said I can still actually play it through USB and export the MIDI file at no cost anyway. It was more curiosity. But curiosity doesn't necessarily balance well against any cost... (Does that mean I'm cheap?)
 
I can clearly get input into Bars and Pipes - then I ran into a hardware problem that I just fixed so I'm going to put off round 2 until tomorrow. But I don't exactly understand how to get output. Bars and Pipes indicates MIDI out, which I can feed back to my RPII... but what I really want is if not to have the notes play in realtime (on the Amiga) then to overlay samples (or something... or whatever...) also on the Amiga. Otherwise I see no point to this. I'm sure my terminology isn't exactly accurate but does someone get what I'm trying to do/can suggest software to that effect?
 
raoulduke said:
Hey, for a while I've been progressively assembling my vintage studio. I doubt I'll use it over my modern PC, but I would like to test it. One component of this is using a MIDI keyboard on my Amiga 2000. Sadly I threw out all my MIDI keyboards 10 years ago. I'm looking for a cheap one near me. But as an alternative, I have a modern USB keyboard and I was looking around and found this - https://www.amazon.com/VicTsing-Cable-Converter-Keyboard-Adapter/dp/B00ACGMOA6
Click to expand...
If you want a MIDI to USB interface, NEVER EVER go for the cheap ones if you intend to use it for compatibility or performance. Get one from a decent brand, with proper drivers that guarantee proper operation and low latency. Many of the cheaper options are known to randomly skip bytes and screw up sys-ex messages.

I've never had problems with my interface, an UM-1S adapter from Edirol/Roland. There are also more serious USB sound interfaces that comes with decent MIDI ports in addition to the analog ones (Scarlett/MBox/Etc..).

Basically, you get what you pay for.

------

To answer the original question, there are programs designed spesifically to route MIDI data from one device to another device in the PC. This way you can just forward the MIDI data from your USB keyboard to the USB-MIDI interface. Have you checked out a program called MIDI-OX?
 
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Thanks. My immediate question is what MIDI production software do people recommend for Amiga?

As I said I can see input, which is infinitely great since I paid nothing to get it, but I am not certain the quality of the input because I can't hear it played back. It may very well be low-performance, but I'm not at that diagnostic point yet.
 
Bars&Pipes. I have tried all the ones I could get my hands on, and Bars&Pipes is the clear winner. Nothing else comes close.
 
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