• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Yet another question about the IBM PGC...

P

per

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
3,052
Location
Western Norway
Is it just me, or did IBM release several versions of this card?

We are all used to see the most common version, the one pictured on Wikipedia; consisting of two full length cards and one half length card mounted together, communicating through two multipin busses that goes through all three cards, and taking up two expansion slots. This card usually got a three-digit numberical stamp on the top card in the same style as most other IBM cards.

However, I recently saw another version. This consist of three full length cards, NOT mounted together, and communicating through three bridges of berg connectors. This card takes up three expansion slots, and got the 62 solder pads just above the ISA slots, whitch were usuall for IBM cards. I haven't seen a detailed enough picture of this card to state any other details.

I will ask you, at least the ones of you that got this card, are both of those cards from IBM, or is one of them a clone?
 
per said:
Is it just me, or did IBM release several versions of this card?

We are all used to see the most common version, the one pictured on Wikipedia; consisting of two full length cards and one half length card mounted together, communicating through two multipin busses that goes through all three cards, and taking up two expansion slots. This card usually got a three-digit numberical stamp on the top card in the same style as most other IBM cards.

However, I recently saw another version. This consist of three full length cards, NOT mounted together, and communicating through three bridges of berg connectors. This card takes up three expansion slots, and got the 62 solder pads just above the ISA slots, whitch were usuall for IBM cards. I haven't seen a detailed enough picture of this card to state any other details.

I will ask you, at least the ones of you that got this card, are both of those cards from IBM, or is one of them a clone?
Click to expand...

I have the second version you describe - 3 full-length cards...
 
IBMMuseum said:
I have the second version you describe - 3 full-length cards...
Click to expand...

Ok, is there any way you can "validate" that it is a real IBM one? I know you can allways dump the firmware ROMs, but the easiest way to recognize early IBM cards is to see if they got some red and green paint on the side of the PCB, just by the metal bracket...

I just bougth the first one, and I didn't know there were two versions. They might both be from IBM, though, one being released as an upgraded version of the other. I don't know if IBM changed it's card manufacturing rules or not, but the IBM music feat. card from 1987 doesn't got the 62 solder-pads nor red&green paint on the side of the PCB.

Oh, well. I can allways dump the firmware of my card when it arrives. If it's not IBM, it'll problably work perfectly as a PGC anyways. If it doesn't work, then I've tossed $45 out of the window.
 
per said:
Ok, is there any way you can "validate" that it is a real IBM one? I know you can allways dump the firmware ROMs, but the easiest way to recognize early IBM cards is to see if they got some red and green paint on the side of the PCB, just by the metal bracket...
Click to expand...

Whoops, I must have been thinking about my 3270 PC display adapters or something. My PGC has two full-length cards, and one a little longer than the bus. Connections are along the XT bus, but it has two (and a place for a third) bridge connections along the top of the card too.

Sorry to scare you...
 
IBMMuseum said:
Whoops, I must have been thinking about my 3270 PC display adapters or something. My PGC has two full-length cards, and one a little longer than the bus. Connections are along the XT bus, but it has two (and a place for a third) bridge connections along the top of the card too.

Sorry to scare you...
Click to expand...

Just to confirm: Does it look like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/PGC.jpg ?

The second alternative is: http://www.trygve.com/ibm3video1.jpg or http://www.trygve.com/ibm3video2.jpg .
 
I don't think the PGC can really be referred to as 'common' :)

The PGC card has an 8088 processor and another graphics controller chip,
which is quite large. The pictures in your post of the second type of card
don't seem to show either of those, so it may be a totally different card.

I have two of these cards, one was still sealed when I bought
it about two years ago. The other was used and had some minor
battery acid damage but still works. I spent a long time looking
for these, so I think they may be semi-rare. Both of my cards are the
type shown on wikipedia, with the two full cards and a shorter card.

The 5175 monitor that goes with these is even more rare.
I have one, its in decent shape, and still works. I had this running
in my AT awhile back, but didn't really find much use for it and
eventually put the EGA stuff back in. The only really useful feature
I found was the emulated CGA mode, which makes CGA games look
really nice.
 
Last edited:
per said:
Just to confirm: Does it look like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/PGC.jpg ?

The second alternative is: http://www.trygve.com/ibm3video1.jpg or http://www.trygve.com/ibm3video2.jpg .
Click to expand...

Mine doesn´t look like either of those. On the back bracket there is two DB-9s, one white and one black. It even looks like it has a 5 pin header.

I´ll double-check what I have (since there is 3270 PC display adapters here too), and can possible post pictures...
 
I´ve got a different set of cards - Definately IBM, and a display adapter. My center card (full-length) is very close to another 3270 PC display adapter I have, so it looks to be another set of those. Crap, I probably have enough complete sets for my three 3270 PCs, but no PGC. :sad:
 
Last edited:
mikey99 said:
I don't think the PGC can really be referred to as 'common' :)

The PGC card has an 8088 processor and another graphics controller chip,
which is quite large. The pictures in your post of the second type of card
don't seem to show either of those, so it may be a totally different card.

I have two of these cards, one was still sealed when I bought
it about two years ago. The other was used and had some minor
battery acid damage but still works. I spent a long time looking
for these, so I think they may be semi-rare. Both of my cards are the
type shown on wikipedia, with the two full cards and a shorter card.

The 5175 monitor that goes with these is even more rare.
I have one, its in decent shape, and still works. I had this running
in my AT awhile back, but didn't really find much use for it and
eventually put the EGA stuff back in. The only really useful feature
I found was the emulated CGA mode, which makes CGA games look
really nice.
Click to expand...

Is there anything that does make much use of the PGA standard then? Emulated CGA is not that big of a deal when CGA can be had much cheaper and easier these days (unless the PGA card + monitor combo looks much better or is much faster then real CGA). EGA atleast had some decent support before VGA took over.
 
Unknown_K said:
Is there anything that does make much use of the PGA standard then? Emulated CGA is not that big of a deal when CGA can be had much cheaper and easier these days (unless the PGA card + monitor combo looks much better or is much faster then real CGA). EGA atleast had some decent support before VGA took over.
Click to expand...

You can get "better" graphics from an XT using the PGC. In quality, it can outrun the original VGA. However, a fast 286 (or maybe it was a 386) with a decent SVGA card may outrun the PGC (unless the PGC is being overclocked, and upgraded with faster RAM, maybe).

About software support, you'll have to make your own software unless you REALLY like older versions of AutoCAD. The link Mikey99 provided has great information about how you do this. In general, all you have to do is to send commands to the card's input buffer, and just wait for them being executed by the 8088 on the PGC.

If anybody got the uber-rare tech ref, I woul really REALLY like a scan of it.
 
Wow, that looks great and you did get a good price :)

I've heard there are several monitors that will work with
the card. Let me know if you need a copy of the software
for the PGC. I have the original diskette that contains a few device
drivers needed for the high res modes.

per said:
Ok. I bougth exactly this one, (Ebay item nr. 370208281457), and for one moment I were affraid I bougth the wrong card.

I really don't need a 5175 because I got a Samsung SyncMaster 1100p+; one of the few VGA monitors able to handle the sync rates from the PGC correctly. I have gotten my hands on a 9-pin-DShell-to-15-pin-VGA adapter cable.
Click to expand...
 
As said before, apparently I have some newer version of a 3270 PC display adapter set. The actual display adapter card itself is only changed slightly to add a 62-pin header by the bus. It is a tighter arrangement of the cards (on my others, each of the two and three card sets are each in an expansion slot, with small bridges across the top of the adapters), designed for only one bus connection.

With a description of two heavily interlinked full-length cards and a daughtercard I must have confused it with the PGC. I was familiar with the layout of the 3270 display cards, and recognized it was different from them without looking more into the details. A second DB-9 also marks it different from the other adapters.

Different some times is just as good. I´ve got an IBM adapter that has LPT/ASYNC/RTC/Memory/Keyboard features for a 3270 PC to lessen the number of cards, and haven´t seen it elsewhere either. What I hope to do in the next few days is to pull out my 3270 PC stuff, and run them through the different adapters for testing.
 
mikey99 said:
Wow, that looks great and you did get a good price :)

I've heard there are several monitors that will work with
the card. Let me know if you need a copy of the software
for the PGC. I have the original diskette that contains a few device
drivers needed for the high res modes.
Click to expand...

It was originally listed as $80 buy it now/best offer, and I made an offer for it. I didn't realize that it was a company, so I made an offer saturday morning (as of West-coast time). My offer expired, and since I did not get any response on it, I called them up and made the offer over phone instead. They agreed, and the card was mine. I can't wait for it to arrive, and I just hope it works.

The adapter cable I have, got a 9-pin female D-shell (2 rows of pins) conector in one end and a 15-pin female conector D-shell (3 rows pf pins) on the other end. I suppose this adapter originally was a MCGA-to-VGA adapter, however, the pin arrangement should work as a PGA-to-VGA adapter too.

I got images of three different disks from John Elliott. One of them contains one driver named VDIDYPGD.SYS
IBM Professional Graphic Display Controller Device Driver
(C) Copyright 1984 IBM Corporation Version 1.00
(C) Copyright 1984 Graphic Software Systems, Inc.
All Rights Reserved

Version 400.1 7/16/84
Click to expand...
and the last two disks contains updated diagnostics- one for the PC/AT and one for the PC/XT.

If you got anything else than this (or more recent versions), I would be interested.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top