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Copy II PC Central Point Option Board vs KryoFlux

JimDrew said:
You need a driver for DOS, Windows, Linux, MacOS, etc. The hardware is capable of providing flux level data and it can even convert that to decoded data. I know there are a LOT of people who would like to be able to insert a C64 disk and be able to read/write it under Windows. That is possible, but the biggest task is the filesystem driver. The FTDI USB driver is easy to deal with. What I need is driver like what you get when you buy a USB floppy drive. Something that will mount a device under Windows... I know the Amiga and how it mounts devices and how device drivers work, but I know nothing about the PC. I am sure that somewhere in the filesystem driver there are commands sent to get the geometry (number of tracks, sides, etc.) and to read/write blocks. The hardware is capable of doing anything, we just need the software to do it.
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Jim (of Emplant fame I presume?),

I'd love it if such device just appeared as a raw block device so I could access it under an emulator in a way WinUAE offers for hard drives. Let the native software handle the filesystem. While its nice being able to drag and drop file to/from a mounted drive in Explorer, in many cases Windows has no clue how to handle metadata on systems with forked files or filetype/creator info. Just look at how Windows handles Mac files even though its "natively supported".
 
Yes, I am the creator of EMPLANT.

SCP can provide data either as flux or decoded FM/MFM or GCR. So, it could give you what you want. Maybe I can look at making a .dll or something that can be used by some file system handler. I have no clue how all of that works for the PC or non-68K Mac.
 
Can this drive flip from read/write mode in order to, for example, write a single sector? Or would the software have to buffer an entire track?

Either way, I could imagine that working in Windows and with emulators. But under real DOS, programs often need a real floppy disk controller. USB floppy drives can only be BIOS compatible at best.

Is it possible to convert "SCP" files to Kryoflux format and vice versa?

Awesome device!
 
Can this drive flip from read/write mode in order to, for example, write a single sector? Or would the software have to buffer an entire track?

Either way, I could imagine that working in Windows and with emulators. But under real DOS, programs often need a real floppy disk controller. USB floppy drives can only be BIOS compatible at best.

Is it possible to convert "SCP" files to Kryoflux format and vice versa?

Awesome device!
 
I bought that Copy II option board from the guy on eBay. It's a legit card.

Yes, SCP can flip between read and write modes at a sector level easily. In fact, it can read and look for a header and switch to write mode and write a data block.

The HxC floppy drive emulator (something that SCP will become at some point) has a floppy drive emulator program that lets you convert .scp image files to/from various formats including the lower resolution Kryoflux raw format.
 
I just received that Option Board that was for sale. I have not tested it yet, but it is the Rev B board and complete with original manual and even has the original CPS product brosure!
 
Just so you're aware, most archival efforts using an option board these days are actually using the Deluxe Option Board and Transcopy v5.4. (Your board is the earlier Option Board.) v5.4 is the format of images I posted for you, and the images currently cannot be used with any version of Transcopy that works with the earlier board that you have.
 
Says you! :) We only changed the image format with the Deluxe version to widen the timing for high density. We could have kept the image format the same, but Mike Brown thought it would be better to distinguish the boards by using a slightly different and deliberately incompatible format. The MFM and GCR data is the same.

I bought this board for nostalgic reasons. I also bought a Laser 128 which I helped develop the ROMs for while I was working at CPS.
 
I've checked a few of .IMG from early version of Copy II PC Optionboard.
(Any user dumped Microsoft Adventure by Optionboard with manual and cover scan.)
MS Adventure has copy protection from 0-39

But it doesn't work (write) correctly on TCOB 5.4.
So I converted old version of TC .IMG by using PRI.EXE of PCE emulator.
Wow, it works correctly on TCOB 5.4.

A few of Teledisk / Snatchip image can be converted to .TC image by using PCE emulator except overlaped sector and FM track.


P.S. I'm making copy protected game list. It will be over more 300+.
 
I've checked "Known floppy disk protected games (incomplete)"

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...V01GMmEwNG85MGUxVkdRNlFoOUE&usp=sharing#gid=0

But the following games are Not copy protected.


Defender of The Crown <-- EGA version of pcbooter (2EA disks), not CGA version of DOS (1EA disk)
John Elway's Quarterback
Kobayashi Naru
Metropolis
Narco Polis
President's Choice
Prowler
Rasterscan
Satan
SideWinder
Storm
Tag Team Wrestling
The Slugger
Trilogy

Of course they are Not DOS version, but they can be copied with Teledisk / Anadisk easily.
These games uses standard track and sector only.
(No checking for copy protection.)
 
JimDrew said:
Says you! :) We only changed the image format with the Deluxe version to widen the timing for high density. We could have kept the image format the same, but Mike Brown thought it would be better to distinguish the boards by using a slightly different and deliberately incompatible format. The MFM and GCR data is the same.

I bought this board for nostalgic reasons. I also bought a Laser 128 which I helped develop the ROMs for while I was working at CPS.
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Is there a document around that describes the image formats?
 
JimDrew said:
Says you! :) We only changed the image format with the Deluxe version to widen the timing for high density. We could have kept the image format the same, but Mike Brown thought it would be better to distinguish the boards by using a slightly different and deliberately incompatible format. The MFM and GCR data is the same.
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Okay, so we REALLY need some information here -- I've loved the OB for 25 years (I maintain an archive of materials here) and would love to know any history you can provide. Who started the whole OB project? Why did the DOB and software stop in 1990? (I have heard rumors but no definite info)

If you know the format, is it possible to write something that will transcode between transcopy and SCP images? I think my brain would just about explode if that were possible!
 
Trixter said:
Okay, so we REALLY need some information here -- I've loved the OB for 25 years (I maintain an archive of materials here) and would love to know any history you can provide. Who started the whole OB project? Why did the DOB and software stop in 1990? (I have heard rumors but no definite info)

If you know the format, is it possible to write something that will transcode between transcopy and SCP images? I think my brain would just about explode if that were possible!
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You're very cool collector or DOB.

I have 2EA of TCOB 5.4 (1EA is full box package version, 2EA is board only.)
I'm using early number version of it to dump many of copy protected disks.

By the way, can you upload them as disk image? (Both 3.5" and 5.25")?

ftp://ftp.oldskool.org/pub/OptionBoard/(1989) Deluxe Option Board v5.4/Package Contents/Software/
 
I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but please contact me off-board so we can keep this discussion thread on-topic -- I would really, really like to know more about the history and development of the OB and DOB.
 
OK... CPS was founded by Mike Brown, the creator of Copy II+ for the Apple II. Mike's company got so big that he moved to Portland (from Central Point, Oregon). He setup a rather large facility there and expanded the Copy II series to the C64/128, PC, and Atari ST. Mike was a hands on CEO. He actually worked with me and gave me a few idea when I made Copy II 64/128. Mike was very involved with the copying laws, and was very pro-backup and anti-pirate. Mike moved more and more towards tools and less towards copying. Finally, all of the copy programs were terminated and there was only a focus tools where they ended up licensing anti-virus programs to Microsoft and Symantec. Later, Mike sold the whole thing to Symantec and retired. Mike was a great guy - a hacker type that was personable. I worked (under contract) at CPS for perhaps a year and did a bunch of things. It was great because the head quarters was literally down the street from my house, so I often times went back and forth between CPS and home. You could get into the building 24 hrs a day and work whenever you wanted to on projects.

For the Option Board, the TC was just a glorified disk controller where we could adjust the clocking window. We could generate FM, MFM, or GCR data with it. The image file format was a header of track lengths, timing offsets to generate the same timing data, offsets to the track data, and the track data. The format changed a few times. I worked on some of the C64 stuff for it because that is what I knew. I don't know who owns the copyrights to it all, but I would assume that would be Symantec still.
 
While we've got your attention, any chance you could dispell some rumors? Here are two:

Who was the hardware engineer for the OB/DOB? One of the rumors floating around was that the primary hardware engineer for the OB died, which is what ceased development. This feels like 90% folk tale (I think the market for duplicating protected media was actually the death of the product) but would like to know the truth.

Also, is there any truth to the rumor that later versions of transcopy (and copyiipc for that matter) intentionally removed the ability to copy certain protected formats, because of pressure from protection scheme companies? (aztech, superlok, rob northern, etc.)
 
If I read this thread correctly, it should be possible to take a disk image from the Transcopy program made with an Option Board and convert it to the Super Card Pro format and write it back to disk. Perhaps even CopyIIPC + Snatchit .CP2 and Teledisk .TD0 files may be supportable.
 
Great Hierophant said:
If I read this thread correctly, it should be possible to take a disk image from the Transcopy program made with an Option Board and convert it to the Super Card Pro format and write it back to disk. Perhaps even CopyIIPC + Snatchit .CP2 and Teledisk .TD0 files may be supportable.
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.TD0 .CP2 .IMD .IMA format can be converted to .PRI .TC. by using PRI.EXE from PCE Emulator.
Kyroflux image can be converted to .TC.

But the overaped sector and FM track can't be converted to TC correctly.

I'm interested in SuperCard than Kyroflux.
If SuperCard image can be converted to .TC image or TC image can be converted to SuperCard image, it will be very awesome.

I have over 300 kinds of Copy Protected games, now I'm working to convert many TC images to .psi (PCE Sector Image).

A few of .PSI format can be converted to .TC image again except FM Track and Overaped sector.
 
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