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Altos ***FAULT*** Failure after boot...

aplmak

Experienced Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
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132
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I'm an avid Altos collector. I dug out of one of the closets an Altos 586T to begin working on. Cleaned it all up, recapped power supply, rebuilt tape drive, cleaned floppy drive. I have a bunch of other Altos machines so been through this process before. So my first issue was a resistor blew up in the tape drive.. maybe because the pcb was touching the housing I am not sure. I found a bad tantalum cap and replaced that and the resistor and now it seems to boot up fine (the tape drive does it's initialization properly).

Now I have spare 586 boards but there are various versions.... I never focused too much on the 586/986. I have a working 586/986 with the port expansion taking it to I think 12 serial ports. That machine works fine.

So this is what I get at boot... after boot it takes about 10 seconds (it's doing it's boot test). It comes back that it was successful.. I place the utilities disk in the drive and it begins to load the ADX utilities and then I get a message ***FAULT***. I did try another floppy drive and same thing, I've spent hours and hours at this.. swapping out various parts.. removing extra stuff and keeping only the necessities. So I've spent a lot of hours troubleshooting even taking out the 8086 processor, and various other IC's. I've also tried to swap out my working motherboard but that one is a different version.. and even a spare motherboard flipping IC's between the two. and SAME THING. I have this sneaky feeling it could be one of the 64K 16 pin memory chips. There's 72 and unfortunately they are soldered in. I've ordered some sockets and I will begin to remove all of those 64K chips and put sockets in. I do have a chip tester so once I get them out I will give them a test. Thank god I have a de-soldering gun as well.

I just thought I'd run it by the crew here if anyone has an idea of what they think it might be. Keep in mind it post tests just fine.. No errors. It's not until it begins to load off the floppy drive. The controller board has two led's and they indicate if there is an issue. They are solid red which means the board checks out and is running normally.

Here are some photos of the issue as well as the reference manual courtesy of Al Kossow's hard work. I'd be grateful for any hints you all might have.

You can see in the second photo it recognizes the utility diskette and the version information. But then the floppy drive fails.. and that little box above the ***FAULT*** is normally loaded before the utility starts up. So it is loading... very odd.. The only thing I can think of is memory... it's trying to load into RAM and failing..

I've also burned some different 64K ROM Chips to try various versions I have.
 

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yea, it's not your fault. bitsaver's page rank is in the noise compared to everyone else, especially manualslib
 
yea, it's not your fault. bitsaver's page rank is in the noise compared to everyone else, especially manualslib
I know Al how hard you have worked to translate and upload all those manuals. It's horrible for an organization to exploit it like that. I can see it as very frustrating... I did edit my original post to assign credit to you :) :)
 
Ok so I have messed with this Altos 586T for hours on end. I think I found out the issue of what I had done. I connected the 34 female pin from the MFM hard drive into the motherboard where normally a floppy drive connects to that's 34 pin. I also had it plugged in reverse. This machine is using a 986T controller board and the floppy drive apparently connects to the floppy cable port on the top connector of the controller card not the port on the motherboard. I'm not sure how to explain this. Basically the 34 pin in a normal 586 on the motherboard is used for floppy drive A or #1. And the one on the top of the controller card is for an external floppy drive. I had plugged the hard drive into it and also had it reversed. I am not sure if I might have blown anything but to be honest everything seems fine. Even the boot up controller card and motherboard tests are successful with NO FAULTS what so ever. The machine literally begins to load the 586 diagnostics after a successful power up from the disk and that's when the fault error appears. So It's pretty much booting up but failing when trying to load the menu screen. I have tried numerous known good ADS floppy disks with no issue and I have swapped out floppy drives. Also the disk I/O controller board has two red led's and they are both solid red which means "normal". If there was a failure there would be a blinking sequence.

Does anyone know if connecting an MFM hard drive to a floppy port screw anything up?? Or plugging it in reverse. This is the cable with the 34 pins the wider of the two. This machine also does not use a twist at all.

Any ideas are really welcome. I'm possibly thinking to connect the main floppy drive to the port on the motherboard as is usual for a 586 machine instead of on the top of the controller card. The crazy thing is the cable in the machine was already folded and installed in proper position for connecting to the top connector to the controller card instead of the motherboard. I've also researched in the System Reference manual if there was a potential jumper setting that needs to be adjusted for drive selection... but none that I know of according to the reference manual.

Here is more of the error after a little while of showing the **FAULT** message.. see attached photo..
 

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Does anyone know if connecting an MFM hard drive to a floppy port screw anything up?
Not likely. The signals are all 5v level on the 34 conductor and the drive from the motherboard is usually from 74LS38 or the like open-collector. So nothing really to damage. Do note that the first floppy drive should probably be set to DS0. (first drive select).
 
Chuck thank you for pitching in. I’ll post a pic of the motherboard and controller board. Could you or anyone else perhaps take a peek at a suspect IC that is known possibly to be flaky? Maybe something that could be causing the floppy boot to fault out? Suggest one I should swap out perhaps? I’ve tried a bunch of controller boards the same model and same results.. so maybe it lies in the motherboard? It just seems sneaky to me that it faults just about when it’s bringing the software utility into RAM…. That’s where it craps out. No other errors before then. I’ve swapped out everything including cables. Not sure if everyone can make out the chip models..
 

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In the photo above of the motherboard you can see I had the 34 pin from a David G MFM emulator drive into the motherboard when it should have been in the controller card. It’s the one with the blue stripe
 
Well after much time spent I found out some interesting things. First off I was lucky to get another 586T system. And I figured out it was probably not my original system board or controller board. So I spent hours last weekend desoldering and installing qty 72, 16 pin sockets so that I can remove and install ram. Wow what a project... it sure did test my soldering skills. I tested each chip and they all passed general tests. So anyways onto the new board. Well I found that some of the Z80 and Floppy Formatter chips were bad... all that and there were some bad Z80's and Floppy Formatter chips. Luckily enough I was able to image the 40mb hard drive from that system which has an OS installed on it. It uses a specific version of Xenix 3.0e for the 586T. So the version I have for the regular 586,986 will not work. And neither do the ADX or SDX utilities... that is why I was getting the **FAULT** by trying to boot from the floppies. So the search is on for the Altos 586T software set... which I found is specific to the 586T. So perhaps anyone having this issue out there getting the 586T to boot off of the Xenix Root disk now knows why it will not boot from any images on the internet.. It's a different beast from the regular 586/986... What a challenge.
 
So the final story is... If you have an Altos 586T the regular SDX, ADX Utilities and Root install disks found online today WILL NOT WORK on the 586T. The diskettes for the 586T have not surfaced yet on the web..... It appears to use Xenix 3.0e
 
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