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Digital Group Z80 to 8080 Fun

falter

falter

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Joined
Jan 22, 2011
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Location
Vancouver, BC
Okay so I got my 'new' phideck and 8080 board (thank you Marty!). Not going to have a lot of time to play today, but for fun I threw the 8080 board in and attempted to fire up. I'm not really sure if the jumper settings are the same deal as the Z80 board so I didn't pull the additional RAM boards. I did put in my RAM chips from the Z80 board just in case.

Initially I got zilch.. just a screen full of this weird character I don't know the name of.

Pulled the card, and did what I did last time -- pulled the crystal and gave it a gentle tap. Put it back in. Whamo.. I have a 'Initialize 8080 Cassette' prompt. Sort of. It's down in the middle of the screen, and although the prompt itself is perfect, there are tons of garbage characters following it. Not sure if that's abnormal or not for this board. No time to try a tape.
 
Okay I lied.. I had a bit more time so I threw a tape in. I don't have an 8080 tape, but my Z80 tape produced the usual 1s and 2s, even though the video is in the 'wrong' place.

20160602_182021.jpg
 
Hi Brad;

Congratulations on what you have accomplished !!

First, the reason that it shows up that way is "" You are using a 64 Character Card, with an 32 Character Eprom.. ""
So unless You manage to get a 32 Character Card, You will have it start out half way down the Screen, Since it Blanks out 32 Characters, which with a 32 Character Card would blank out the whole Screen, and then it would start the message at the top of the 32 Character Screen, just like the Z-80 Screen..
So, your choices are, leave it like it is and accept it, OR change the code to do a Double Blank like they did with the Z-80 Eprom Code..

Secondly, If I remember correctly, You do have an 8080 Cassette from Digital Group that I sent You, Take a look at all five Cassettes that I sent to You.. One of them, should be an 8080 Operating System Cassette, and I think I sent You an ICOSE Operating System Cassette, which is also an 8080 System Cassette..

THANK YOU Marty
 
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Neat! I haven't gotten to my Digital Group stuff yet, hopefully with the XT-IDE rev 3 run done I'll have a little more time to mess with it.
 
So I shouldn't be worried about all the garbage characters after Marty? I note that about two rows down there's some flicker business going on.

I went through the tapes you were kind enough to send. There is an unlabelled one with the numbers CQ1901 on it.. not sure what that is but can try it. There is a Hmon/2 - Phideck tape, a Phimon ver 1 tape with phimon maker on the other side. A phimon audio load, and a tape that says Proms on one side and Dmaker on the other. That's it. I'm guessing maybe the blank tape is the 8080 OS? I'll try it and see what happens.

I've questions about the phideck if you have any answers -- I note there are two cards.. they are not both required to run the phi-deck, right? I'm also wondering how the phideck drives themselves actually connect up to the computer/controller and are powered. It seems like my motherboard has some phideck labelling on it, so I'm hoping the connections are already soldered in. Otherwise this could be interesting. Also trying to figure out how to get the case open.

Did the phideck originally have covers over the tape? I've seen pics of phidecks with and without. Wondering if users did that.
 
glitch said:
Neat! I haven't gotten to my Digital Group stuff yet, hopefully with the XT-IDE rev 3 run done I'll have a little more time to mess with it.
Click to expand...

I have to say I wasn't sure if I'd be all that keen on my DG stuff -- I bought the Z80 on an impulse. But it does seem to be a pretty significant computer in its own right. The ability to just swap CPU cards and carry on is pretty amazing. The phideck is a pretty cool piece of equipment too, if I can figure out how to fix and operate it.
 
Hi All;

Brad, I thought I had sent You an 8080 Op System tape, but I think I kept it here for use on my only remaining 8080 System Board..
I don't know what was on the Unlabeled Tape anymore, so I just sent it along, for You to try and Load and see what it contains..
Thank You for the listing of what I sent, as I forgot what I sent to You..

No, the Phi-Deck Boards are different Rev's the one with the R-Packs on the Back are Rev 1 Board and the other Board is a later Rev 2 Board..

The Phi-Decks are powered from Your main Dg System, On the Underside of Your DG System are the Long Wire-Wrap posts, that would have Molex style Cable ends soldered to wires and Cabled over to the Phi-Deck Box, Both Power and Digital/Audio Signals from/to the Phi-Deck(s)..

"" I've questions about the phideck if you have any answers -- It seems like my motherboard has some phideck labelling on it, so I'm hoping the connections are already soldered in. ""
Look at the Documentation from Brian BlackBurn for the Phi-Deck Manual and Possibly an 8080 OP System Tape..
"" Otherwise this could be interesting. Also trying to figure out how to get the case open. "" Which case ?? The Phi-Deck case was not closed all of the way, so it should already be partially open..
I think I put two screws on the front Underside of the case, take those out and the top and bottom should seperate..

Did the phideck originally have covers over the tape? "" Yes, there were covers.. Plastic..

"" So I shouldn't be worried about all the garbage characters after Marty? ""
I will try and be more careful about what I have following me..

THANK YOU Marty
 
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I've had a look around but there doesn't seem to be a digital copy of the 8080 OS tape anywhere. Not that it matters.. it doesn't look like there's even software for the 8080 anywhere either. I'm assuming all the stuff on Bryan's site is for z80 only.

I got the phideck case apart and am going to try to find more documentation on how it is installed. I had a look under my motherboard and the last two slots are wirrd up for somethinf but not sure what.. there are pins marked TTY and audio and so forth. No Molex connectors for the phi deck. There is one slot not soldered in that I could set up for the phideck. Just have to get the actual slots for it.

Marty said:
Hi All;

Brad, I thought I had sent You an 8080 Op System tape, but I think I kept it here for use on my only remaining 8080 System Board..
I don't know what was on the Unlabeled Tape anymore, so I just sent it along, for You to try and Load and see what it contains..
Thank You for the listing of what I sent, as I forgot what I sent to You..

No, the Phi-Deck Boards are different Rev's the one with the R-Packs on the Back are Rev 1 Board and the other Board is a later Rev 2 Board..

The Phi-Decks are powered from Your main Dg System, On the Underside of Your DG System are the Long Wire-Wrap posts, that would have Molex style Cable ends soldered to wires and Cabled over to the Phi-Deck Box, Both Power and Digital/Audio Signals from/to the Phi-Deck(s)..

"" I've questions about the phideck if you have any answers -- It seems like my motherboard has some phideck labelling on it, so I'm hoping the connections are already soldered in. ""
Look at the Documentation from Brian BlackBurn for the Phi-Deck Manual and Possibly an 8080 OP System Tape..
"" Otherwise this could be interesting. Also trying to figure out how to get the case open. "" Which case ?? The Phi-Deck case was not closed all of the way, so it should already be partially open..
I think I put two screws on the front Underside of the case, take those out and the top and bottom should seperate..

Did the phideck originally have covers over the tape? "" Yes, there were covers.. Plastic..

"" So I shouldn't be worried about all the garbage characters after Marty? ""
I will try and be more careful about what I have following me..

THANK YOU Marty
Click to expand...
 
Hi Brad;

"" No Molex connectors for the phi deck. ""

Ok, I mis-stated it's the pins that accept the molex connector going to the PhiDeck, I think there are some molex connectors on two of the Phi-decks, see if they will slip over the extended pin on the bottom of Your chassis..

"" I'm assuming all the stuff on Bryan's site is for z80 only. "" That may not be so..

Try the various versions of the Educator program, and Look at the PDF for it, one of them should have the 8080 Op System for its base..
As that was what it was origionally written for..

Also, Look at Brian's Phi-deck Documentation, for wiring up for a Phi-deck slot, on Your First I/O card the Inner card pins for (I thinK) i/o ports 2 and 3 are wired to the slot where the Phi-Deck card is plugged in..
I will take a Picture of mine and post it in a bit.. Once I find my last MotherBoard..

001.jpg

THANK YOU Marty
 
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falter said:
I have to say I wasn't sure if I'd be all that keen on my DG stuff -- I bought the Z80 on an impulse. But it does seem to be a pretty significant computer in its own right. The ability to just swap CPU cards and carry on is pretty amazing. The phideck is a pretty cool piece of equipment too, if I can figure out how to fix and operate it.
Click to expand...

I hadn't thought much about Digital Group stuff until you were working on troubleshooting yours -- after sitting down and reading about it, both through scanned documentation and the bus layout/system overview in "The S-100 Bus and Other Micro Buses," I decided it was probably something that would be fun and interesting to hack on! Think I'll probably end up laying out a prototype board for the I/O slots, and reproducing the multi-ROM boot board (daughterboard for the Z80 card).
 
Hi All;

Glitch, that Daughter Board will work on ANY of the DG CPU Boards, including the 8080 Board..

Brad, Look at Brian's Phi-Deck manual it has alot of theory and setting up the Phi-decks and Cabling, see pages 17, 22 and about 45 to the end of the file..

Somewhere I have a Listing of the Educator program, on a Byte Magazine Article written by Dr. Suding, I just have to find it, which may take some doing..

THANK YOU Marty
 
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Marty said:
Glitch, that Daughter Board will work on ANY of the DG CPU Boards, including the 8080 Board..
Click to expand...

I suspected it might, but only having seen images of the 8080 board I wasn't sure if everything would line up. If I build a workalike, it will probably use a 2716 5V-only EPROM so you don't have to solder jumper wires, and it'll be extended somewhat so it can use a male:male DIP header for the 1702A socket. Should be pluggable into the exsting RAM/ROM sockets without desoldering or modifying the CPU board at all.
 
Yeah I did some reading and that's exactly what you do -- the long pins on the bottom allow for the Molex connectors from the Phidecks to slide on.

I've looked at the bottom of my board... I don't think it was wired for phideck. Not sure what it was wired for. Maybe you have ideas Marty?

20160603_100350.jpg

I think I can handle soldering wires and stuff. I'm concerned about removing wires with those slots, even though they are presently empty.. not sure what else on the machine it might affect. And I'm not clear from instructions -- if you are wiring up your phideck slot to your I/O slot, what happens if there are already wires on some of the pins of the I/O slot? Just add wires to it? A lot to learn.

Marty said:
Hi Brad;

"" No Molex connectors for the phi deck. ""

Ok, I mis-stated it's the pins that accept the molex connector going to the PhiDeck, I think there are some molex connectors on two of the Phi-decks, see if they will slip over the extended pin on the bottom of Your chassis..

"" I'm assuming all the stuff on Bryan's site is for z80 only. "" That may not be so..

Try the various versions of the Educator program, and Look at the PDF for it, one of them should have the 8080 Op System for its base..
As that was what it was origionally written for..

Also, Look at Brian's Phi-deck Documentation, for wiring up for a Phi-deck slot, on Your First I/O card the Inner card pins for (I thinK) i/o ports 2 and 3 are wired to the slot where the Phi-Deck card is plugged in..
I will take a Picture of mine and post it in a bit.. Once I find my last MotherBoard..

View attachment 31480

THANK YOU Marty
Click to expand...
 
Hi All;

Brad, "" Yeah I did some reading and that's exactly what you do -- the long pins on the bottom allow for the Molex connectors from the Phidecks to slide on. ""
Exactly right..

"" I've looked at the bottom of my board... I don't think it was wired for phideck. ""
Your Right, they are Not PhiDeck..
"" Not sure what it was wired for. Maybe you have ideas Marty? ""
I have no Idea of what they were for, So as I see it You have two choices..
One is take out all of those Blue wires and those two center wires from the main I/O port, And Rewire it for a PhiDeck.. OR
Secondly, add the connectors needed to populate the last slot.. And put the PhiDeck in there..
Another, thing, that You need to Consider is whether You are going to PUT the Phideck Board in the main Chassis or do as Brian did and mount it in the Phideck case.. By mounting it in the Phideck case the Leads will be shorter and the Noise factor will be much less to deal with.. Especially from the Heads !! It wouldn't matter for the Motion controls..

THANK YOU Marty
 
Thanks Marty. I'm looking around for connectors like the ones I have with the long pins on the end but so far no dice. I'll keep digging.

Also haven't found anything 8080 tape wise out there. You wouldn't be able to digitize your copy someday would you?
 
Hi All;

Brad, I have been waiting for Your Reply..
"" I'm looking around for connectors like the ones I have with the long pins on the end but so far no dice. I'll keep digging. ""
What about using one of the slots with the Blue wires on it ?? That would be much easier..
If you use the first I/O slot after the Video card for the Phideck Board or for the PhiDeck cable to the Phideck Board if you decide to put it in the phideck cabinet..
"" You wouldn't be able to digitize your copy someday would you? ""
Yes, I would be more than Glad to digitize the tape, If I can figure out "how" to do it..
Also, (I think) Glitch may have a or some 8080 Cassette Tapes, that I sent Him, I'LL Bet He would know "HOW" to do it and could make something faster than with me fumbling around and not having any Idea of what to do.. Hopefully, He will Respond, and let us know If my memory is correct..

THANK YOU Marty
 
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I just looked through the box of cassettes you sent me, Marty -- it does not appear that I have anything 8080 specific, most of it seems to be Z80 specific. There's one unlabeled tape.

As to digitizing, there are a few ways to go about it. The original Digital Group hardware can be used, along with a serial port, to export to a PC. One could build a custom interface for another computer (vintage, modern, or a microcontroller) to do the same. Or, you can record them as audio files and either reproduce tapes from that, or write e.g. an Audacity plugin to process the files into binaries. Recording to audio file has the advantage that you get the data backed up NOW without any additional work, then you can work on processing it as you have time.
 
Hi All;

Glitch, Thank You for Responding so Quickly..
Could You do me a favor and list the Titles, I would be able to for the most part tell You whether it is Z-80 specific or not..
Also, Please tell me what the one unlabeled tape look like ??
Also, all of my Cassettes are Buried under a ton of stuff, that I cannot get to for a couple of weeks or more..
I could do a (Once I find them) a cassette copy to a Reel to Reel and then back to another Cassette, But, I can't say 'how' good the quality would be..
"" As to digitizing, there are a few ways to go about it.
The original Digital Group hardware can be used, along with a serial port, to export to a PC. ""
What I have left now in Digital Group Boards isn't Workable for the near future..
"" One could build a custom interface for another computer (vintage, modern, or a microcontroller) to do the same. ""
I have thought of trying it with my Altair, but a wire-wrap board, might be too noisy for the Audio circuits to work properly.. I could use Your thoughts on that..
"" Or, you can record them as audio files and either reproduce tapes from that, ""
As stated above that might be my only present option..
"" or write e.g. an Audacity plugin to process the files into binaries. ""
I don't know what that is..
"" Recording to audio file has the advantage that you get the data backed up NOW without any additional work, then you can work on processing it as you have time.""
What I am thinking is I could with my Hex Editor make a Binary file, since I have the Listing for the Basic 8080 Operating System..

THANK YOU Marty
 
I'll get you a list today -- can't get to it right at this moment.

If you have a bunch of these to digitize, perhaps I should get moving on setting up a system to digitize the cassettes with Digital Group hardware. I could pretty quickly interface the cassette controller to my S-100 system. I'd be happy to digitize them and ship them back to you.
 
Hi All;

Glitch, Thank You for letting me know..
"" I could pretty quickly interface the cassette controller to my S-100 system. ""
Please, when, You work out the circuit, Share it with me and I will build my own using my Cassette Board and my Altair..
So, that I could do my own, of course I would still need to find out How to Digitize then..

THANK YOU Marty
 
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