• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Help locating items for DEC TZ87

RSX11M+

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
1,075
DEC_TZ87.png


I'm trying to collect all things pertaining to the DEC TZ87 DLT SCSI Tape Drive. Any information or link to the software itself (see below) would be appreciated. I need the usual DEC docs - User guide, Tech Manual, schematic etc...

The TZ87 can access TK50, TK70, TK85, TK86, and TK87 tapes.


Software:
DEC TZ87 DLT Tape Drive 5.2.3790.0 was a third-party PC app for Windows. Apparently once supplied by Microsoft for Win32 OS, all the download links on the web now, point a bad page on the Microsoft site or don't work.

Some links imply this software was a complete package, others refer to it only as a "driver".

Interestingly, there is an uninstaller for this software that's still available.



Please note that the TZ87N variant does not have compatibility to all those tapes, but the software itself may be the same.
 
I had a TZ88 for a while, and just plugged it into the Adaptec SCSI controller on my windows xp PC, and used the Microsoft backup utility to make backup tapes of my disk. No other s/w needed to be installed.

I have since gotten rid of it and use other means now (like a Blueray DVD writer) that have much more capacity are are easier to use on multiple systems.

Don
 
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, BD is more sensible today, but darn - it won't read my old TK50 tapes!

The explanation is: I was hoping to find a path to create PC image files from my DEC TK50 tape contents.

To accomplish this, I'm also looking at the possibility of emulating a TK50 drive like we do the TU58, with a PC. A PC program that appears like a SCSI tape drive to a PDP11 system seems possible, if not connecting to a TQK50 tape control though a custom interface.

In any case, I have one of these TZ87 drives and saw there used to be PC connectivity so it was worth asking.


I'll try hooking it up to a Win PC via SCSI and see if UPnP recognizes it.

Thanks.
 
Tangential question - does RT-11 support the TZ87/88 (assuming CMD SCSI controller)?

I don't know Jack... the TZ87 is not in my experience base. What little documentation I've found indicates it was used with DEC 4000 AXP systems circa 1994 with CompacTape III - 10GB, (20GB compressed) capacity.

I'm not sure if it would be directly compatible with PDP-11 systems, unless it happened to look enough like previous SCSI TMSCP units. I don't recall it in Mentec device lists, but I could have easily missed it.
 
RT-11 should have no problem with the TZ87 (or any SCSI tape drive) connected via something like a CQD220/TM - as far as RT-11 is concerned, its just another TMSCP tape drive. You will need a fairly "new" version of RT-11, though; I'm not sure what rev had the TMSCP driver...
 
Didn't Compaq for a time use a version of the TZ87 that couldn't handle TK50 carts?
You are correct, and probably thinking of the TZ87N - big difference. Mine is clearly the one WITH compatibility.

RT-11 should have no problem with the TZ87 (or any SCSI tape drive) connected via something like a CQD220/TM - as far as RT-11 is concerned, its just another TMSCP tape drive. You will need a fairly "new" version of RT-11, though; I'm not sure what rev had the TMSCP driver...
A hopeful response - thanks. I can only hope the same is true for RSX.

Still... nobody has documentation? It may be MicroFiche time. 1994 is going to be difficult though.
 
Last edited:
I don't have a manual but i hve access to some info,

TZ87 - Configuring Jumpers/Switches
TZ87-VA Switches

TZ87 Tabletop Switches

TZ87-Ax, TZ87-Bx Jumpers

Overview

Address Jumpers

Termination Jumpers

TZ87-VA Switches

TZ87 Tabletop

TZ87-VA Switches
Figure 1: TZ87-VA Switches


SCSI ID Switch Settings SCSI ID # SW-1 SW-2 SW-3 SW-4 SW-5 SW-6
0 OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF
1 ON OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF
2 OFF ON OFF OFF OFF OFF
3 ON ON OFF OFF OFF OFF
4 OFF OFF ON OFF OFF OFF
5 ON OFF ON OFF OFF OFF
6 OFF ON ON OFF OFF OFF
7 OFF ON ON OFF OFF OFF
8
NOTE: This SCSI ID is normally reserved for the host. ON ON ON OFF OFF OFF
Automatic
NOTE: Sets device address to storage subsystem slot number. "Automatic" is the default setting. OFF OFF OFF ON ON ON

top

TZ87 Tabletop Switches
The tabletop tape drive contains a push-button switch located in the upper right corner of the rear panel. The push-button counter is preset at the factory to SCSI ID 0, and can be easily set to a desired address by manually changing the setting of the counter. Each time the button located below the readout is pressed, the setting decrements to the next lower value.

top

TZ87-Ax, TZ87-Bx Jumpers
Overview
The TZ87 drive in an embedded configuration, has 3 configurable options that may require modification based on application. These options are:

SCSI ID (Default setting = ID 5)

Parity checking (Default = parity checking enabled)

TERMPWR (Termination power, default = enabled)

top

Address Jumpers
Figure 2: Drive, Left-side View


SCSI ID Jumper A0 Jumper A1 Jumper A2
0 out out out
1 in out out
2 out in out
3 in in out
4 out out in
5 in out in
6 out in in
7 in in in

top

Termination Jumpers

To change TERMPWR, orient the drive, as shown in the figure above, with the drive front to the left. If disabling TERMPWR is required, remove the jumper across pins 3-4. To enable TERMPWR insert a jumper across pins 3-4.

NOTE: It is recommended that this jumper remain in place, since all devices can provide TERMPWR.
top

top

TZ87-VA Switches
TZ87-VA Switches

top

TZ87 Tabletop
TZ87 Tabletop

top

TZ87 Tabletop Switches
TZ87 Tabletop Switches

For some reason I can't send screen captures, even by private message. Info above looks better on screen capture. Anything specific you are looking for?
 
Last edited:
Tz30

Tz30

Frankly, I wouldn't even try a 'modern' drive with TK50 tapes. Find a TZ30 which is easy to disassemble to clean the head,
which you will be doing a lot if you try to read TK50 tapes. They have all gone sticky and you will have a limited success rate.
 
Great responses. Thanks to all...


Thanks Al, that link is both informative and confirming.

Code:
Here's what is said about DLT2000XT vs TZ87-TAfrom the DLT FAQ; note that there is at least one
difference, that the DLT2000 will not read TK50's
or TK70's (though it will read your tapes written on a
TZ86.)
Tim. ([URL="https://groups.google.com/forum/"]sho...@altair.krl.caltech.edu[/URL])

        Product Name    Comp?  Capacity (uncomp)   User Data Rate (Uncomp)
        +-------------+-------+-------------------+----------------------+
         TZ85/THZ01      N              2.6 GB        800 KB/sec
         TZ86/THZ02      N              6.0 GB        800 KB/sec
         TZ87/DLT2000    Y             10.0 GB       1.25 MB/sec

        Product Name    Format         R/W
        +--------------+------------+--------------+
         Tx85/THZ01      TK50          R only
                         TK70          R only
                         TZ85          R/W
         Tx86/THZ02      TK50          R only
                         TK70          R only
                         TZ85          R/W
                         TZ86          R/W
         TZ87/DLT2000    TK50          R only (not supported on TZ87N or
                                               DLT2000)
                         TK70          R only (not supported on TZ87N or
                                               DLT2000)
                         TZ85          R/W
                         TZ86          R/W
                         TZ87          R/W
I take it as confirmation that the TZ87 does READONLY access TK50 and TK70. (Despite some confusion in the text - I suspect the DLT2000 = TZ87 and the DLT2000XT = TZ87N)

Note: I am certain my TZ87 does access TK50 and TK70 because there are specific indicators on it's front panel for that very purpose. There is no reason to include this compatibility in READONLY mode, except to read older media. Further - the TZ87N is missing these same indicators.

@Chuck(G) - Yes, TZ87N is not able to read the earlier CompacTape II. Fortunately I understood this and passed up the TZ87N for this unit. Thanks for the link - always helps to get more confirmation.


Frankly, I wouldn't even try a 'modern' drive with TK50 tapes. Find a TZ30 which is easy to disassemble to clean the head,
which you will be doing a lot if you try to read TK50 tapes. They have all gone sticky and you will have a limited success rate.
While I do not expect high success rate, this kind of misses the point. I have almost 100 TK50 tapes and I'm going to try. I'm doing the basic legwork to make the best of it that I can by amassing both early TK50 drives (which I already had) and last of the TK50 capable ones - which I take as the TZ87. (not TZ87N) Perhaps it's a bad strategy, but I am hoping one of these will have more delicate handling of tapes than the others.

TZ30? I was unaware of it. I'll add it to my information search... the knowledge may be useful even if I don't locate one.

Having the possibility of reading these on PC via SCSI may be very helpful. Time will tell, I've a lot of work yet to do. If all I need do is clean the drives a lot, (or modify one with a vacuum system for continuous cleaning) that will be little enough if it enables me to recover the data.

I'm doing this preparation so that I have the best chance of recovering data on the first try with each tape, as successive attempts will be increasing perilous. (As you note Al)

Ever heard of anyone dealing with the "stickyness" issue? I.E. - tape drying, preparation, etc?


Excellent help, thank you all for taking the trouble to look and to post. Still hoping for other TZ87 documentation. Thanks to Lou, I also have a TZK50 adapter that will be a part of this effort. I need more documentation on it too, but already have the maintenance prints - thanks to Bitsavers.

P.S. - For those who don't know - The TZ87 (and TZ87N) is native SCSI, while the TZK50 is a regular TK50 with an additional board that converts to SCSI. I suspect the TK70 SCSI unit is the same, though I haven't seen particulars .
 
Last edited:
Ever heard of anyone dealing with the "stickyness" issue? I.E. - tape drying, preparation, etc?

Go visit some of the audio tape forums--the "sticky shed" problem is one that crops up quite frequently. Usually, the remedy (at least for a few hours or days) is to bake the tape at about 130-140F.
 
Go visit some of the audio tape forums--the "sticky shed" problem is one that crops up quite frequently. Usually, the remedy (at least for a few hours or days) is to bake the tape at about 130-140F.
Fascinating. I was unaware of that too... Care to suggest some good links?

That's the kind of thing I'm going to have to consider. (meaning it will be necessary) This is going to take careful planning and some pre-testing on my part. I have some tapes here that can be used as test subjects - ones that don't have my data on them. Though I was hoping to archive them because their labels are interesting (appear 2b unix) they're obviously preferred over my tapes who's contents are "known desirable".

Still, there are some tapes of mine which have things like BRUSYS and BRU64K which I can recreate or have duplicates of anyway.

Most difficult and risky will be multi-tape backup sets. Obviously it's most desirable to get complete sets but it's still possible to recover data from individual tapes as long as individual files don't span tapes. Media preparation and "heat treatment" may be particularly helpful in these cases, more so if done prior to the first attempt.

If others have a lot of interest in this topic, I'll start another thread when the time comes.

You know what else might be helpful?... If I could obtain a CompacTape I or II (TK50 is I, TK70 is II) that someone has found can't be read or knows has physically shed material, it would be tremendously helpful. I could study it and might use it to test with. It's doubtful I could recover data from it, having already been damaged, but one never knows. Please PM me if you are interested and have such a victim to offer.
 
Last edited:
There is also a Tz877 autoloader that can read TK50/TK70 tapes. I think I have a manual for this one. Ill see if I can find it.
Wow... hadn't seen that either. I'll be interested to see what you find. Thanks.

Just found this old DEC press release excerpt follows:
Code:
HIGHLIGHTS

o  The TZ87N drives and TZ877 autoloaders provide the same capacity and 
   performance as Digital's industry leading TZ87 DLT tape drives -- at a 
   significantly lower cost

o  They are ideal for backup, archiving, and some data interchange 
   applications for users with compact discs, 9 track drives, or other 
   TK/DLT drives as load mechanisms for their Digital software 

o  They differ from earlier members of the DLT family in only one respect: 
   they do not read TK media

~

Hi All;
The Drying the tapes in the oven, also works for 9 Track tapes as well..
I have done it alot about a year ago..
THANK YOU Marty
Great! Good to know - thank you for the feedback. Any other wisdom to share? I'll be doing 9-track tapes in a TS05 eventually.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top