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Help with Xenix

E

Echoes

Experienced Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
94
Location
Italy
Hi,
I'm new here, so let me introduce myself a bit before getting to the hot stuff :)
I'm an Italian HCI student, who started his love-story with computers on a pentium 200 mmx (hey, I'm young!) and Windows 95 OSR2 and the wonderful Fat32.
Years later, I got involved in retrocomputing, and obviously that's why I'm here.

Ok, now back in-topic: I'm setting up a site for those who want to land on the world of Xenix. It seems that finding software and docs for this OS is not as easy as it could be, and I'm trying to do my best to solve this annoying problem.
So, do you want to help me sending what you have?
That's what I need for my site:
  • dd copies of installation disks for every version of xenix still present (Xenix for the PDP-11 won't be easy to find, so probably we should say it's lost)
  • dd copies of software/drivers disks
  • PDF copies of the manuals
  • Guides, HOW-TO, knowledge and experience you want to share

Tenox is exempted, he has already offered his help when I asked by mail :D
 
I caution you to contact SCO before you post any copyrighted material. They own exclusive rights to Xenix (now being peddled as SCO Unix) and have been known to be extremely predatory when it comes to IP rights.
 
Good luck trying to find information on Xenix. I tried recently and came up with very little. There are diskette images of a number of Xenix versions on Bittorent and Vetusware.com but no documentation. I tried installing Xenix 386 from these archives, but they were missing one of the diskettes and installation failed.


Chuck(G) said:
I caution you to contact SCO before you post any copyrighted material. They own exclusive rights to Xenix (now being peddled as SCO Unix) and have been known to be extremely predatory when it comes to IP rights.
Click to expand...

I contacted SCO not too long ago and got this response(Individual names have been omitted):

I wrote:
> This email is from the company feedback form.
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> COUNTRY: United States
> CONCERNING: Other
>
> MESSAGE:
> Hi, I am trying to find an old version of the Xenix Operating System that ran on the old Intel 30386 machines. It was marketed probably 20 years ago. By any chance does the SCO Group still have copies of this version or one that will run on this vintage machine? I am a collector of vintage computers and cannot find any sources for this software. Thanks for your time.

SCO's response:
Hello,

Thank you for your email. Unfortunately, SCO no longer sells licensing or media for the Xenix OS. I apologize for the inconvenience, please let us know if there is anything else we may assist you with.

Kind regards,

Sales Administration Coordinator
The SCO Group

Sco is a leading provider of Unix-based solutions and mobile services.
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately, "no longer sells" doesn't mean "we don't care what you do with it". IBM no longer sells OS/2 but good luck getting some legal source code to OS/2.
 
Chuck(G) said:
I caution you to contact SCO before you post any copyrighted material. They own exclusive rights to Xenix (now being peddled as SCO Unix) and have been known to be extremely predatory when it comes to IP rights.
Click to expand...

Just do it behind their backs like everyone else does...:rolleyes:
 
Xenix and Unix are two different beasts.
The court has already ruled that SCO does *NOT* own Unix - it is still owned by Novell.

However, the above advice is still valid - be careful what you do, especially any Xenix stuff owned by SCO. They are lawsuit-happy because they suck and noone wants anything to do with them, so it is becoming their main source of (attempted) revenue.

M$ also dabbled in Xenix, but i think that was sold off to SCO - not positive, but I'm pretty sure it was.

T
 
Sharkonwheels said:
M$ also dabbled in Xenix, but i think that was sold off to SCO - not positive, but I'm pretty sure it was.
Click to expand...

At one time, Xenix was indeed a Microsoft product. I recall going to Bellevue to talk to the people who were doing the port for the Tandy Model 16. We had a similar issue--a 2-CPU system (80186+80286) and wanted to see how they'd rigged the communication between the Z80 and 68000. IIRC, this was V7. At the time, SCO was doing the port of the Unix code to the x86 platform under contract to Microsoft, with Intel doing the kernel port.

(I still have a copy of the OEM release notes for MS-DOS 2.00 from Microsoft, saying it was their intention that MS-DOS and Xenix would eventually become a single unified product.)

But here's where the story of SCO gets interesting. When Microsoft started working on OS/2 with IBM (another interesting story there), they dropped plans for Xenix and sold it to SCO in return for 25% ownership of SCO.

SCO hit hard times in the 1990s and sold off Xenix to Caldera. SCO had a product named Tarantella, sort of a enterprise-integration platform and renamed itself Tarantella. Sun eventually acquired Tarantella (the company) and that was the end of the original SCO.

In the meantime, Caldera changed its name to "The SCO Group". These are not the original Santa Cruz Operation (which no longer exists) people, but rather the people who have sued everyone using Linux and been countersued by everyone else.

The last I heard, this litigious strategy had backfired on them and they were in Chapter 11 reorganization.

How's that for confusing?
 
Well, I'll eventually ask for SCO permission but I don't think they will give it.
By the way, from a legal point, I think that it's not the same case of OS/2. Xenix is owned only by SCO/caldera/whatever you may call it, while part of OS/2 is owned by other companies. This is why IBM won't ever release source code for his OS, while SCO could (and probably won't) behave differently.

In my opinion, they won't bother much this project (even if they eventually get to know it), as Xenix is completely dismissed and they won't risk to spend more than what they could earn from the lawsuit.

As soon as I'll have an answer from SCO, it will be posted here.
 
Echoes said:
By the way, from a legal point, I think that it's not the same case of OS/2. Xenix is owned only by SCO/caldera/whatever you may call it, while part of OS/2 is owned by other companies. This is why IBM won't ever release source code for his OS, while SCO could (and probably won't) behave differently.
Click to expand...
I b'lieve it's the same deal with Xenix. In one of the court rulings mentioned above, it was found that ATT still owns the rights to part of Xenix.
As soon as I'll have an answer from SCO, it will be posted here.
Click to expand...
Good luck with that too. A few years ago, when SCO still had the rights, I contacted them for an installation key (I had all the disks), but I got pretty much the same runaround. Bottom line was, they wouldn't even sell me a key (even if they could find one), because the product (Xenix 286) was no longer supported. Period.

--T
 
Terry Yager said:
I b'lieve it's the same deal with Xenix. In one of the court rulings mentioned above, it was found that ATT still owns the rights to part of Xenix.
Click to expand...

Didn't knew about that... but didn't microsoft buyed rights for xenix from AT&T? And didn't microsoft sell everything to SCO?

By the way, I asked to SCO if they can provide a hobbyst license like the one for caldera's Unix for PDP11.
 
IANAL, but I think there's a some confusion here.
Just because a product is no longer being actively marketed or supported,
that doesn't mean the copyright holder won't still aggressively defend their copyright.
 
Ah, your version came out clearer than mine did. Exactly, they still love to defend those copyrights.
 
My point was that Caldera/SCOG went lawsuit-happy suing on the basis that there are bits and pieces of Xenix code in Linux, Xenix still has value to them, if for nothing else other than a litigation standpoint.

In view of this, they're probably going to be pretty touchy about any suggestion that they might give it away.

I could be all wet, but I still think it's prudent to ask.
 
Echoes said:
Didn't knew about that... but didn't microsoft buyed rights for xenix from AT&T? And didn't microsoft sell everything to SCO?

By the way, I asked to SCO if they can provide a hobbyst license like the one for caldera's Unix for PDP11.
Click to expand...

ATT has not, and prolly never will sell the rights to unix, upon which the disputed code is based. M$ published Xenix under license. I don't recall the details of the settlement, but I'm sure google's memory is much better than mine.

--T
 
SCOing

SCOing

Here's just a partial list of their lawsuits since 2000:
-SCO v. IBM
-Red Hat v. SCO
-SCO v. Novell
-SCO v. AutoZone
-SCO v. DaimlerChrysler

I think they're currently in Chapter 11. One of their strategies to get out of bankruptcy was to litigate. (seriously)
At the rate they're going, we're not going to have to worry about them for long.
Maybe we should offer them a pre-paid envelope and a Twinky bar for the soruces to Xenix, 'cause that'll probably be the best offer they get before SCO goes to the great firesale in the corporate sky.
patscc
 
lol the last 2 answers are probably the best :mrgreen:

Now, who has a twinky bar handy?
 
Those lawsuits were hilariously ridiculous. Reminds me of when Intel when on a suing spree over Rambus rights and eventually sued themselves (a subsidiary they already bought). It was funny watching Sco try and pretend to own anything as a dying company grasping at straws and just living off of lawsuits. Then a few folks speak up and say "Um.. no, we didn't sell you that, we own that." and another "We own that part, we never even gave that to MS.. so all your code is in violation of our material and we want compensation then."

IBM just sat there and said "show us what code you're talking about" which I believe during the duration of the court session had yet to ever been brought to light.

But yup, lawsuits to scare the poor are a popular tactic. It will cost more than it's worth fighting so most folks just agree to desist. However an open archive of public software or material regarding Xenix would still be quite useful effort.

I'm all for your goal btw, I just was laughing at the lawsuits.
 
Actually, AT&T Labs was bought by Novell, who is the proper owner, which was upheld in the courts.

They sued IBM, because they said IBM gave Unix code to the Linux camp, not Xenix. Link from SCO themselves
They sued Sun, because of OpenSolaris, and saying that Sun also contributed code.

Funniest part, is that both AIX and SunOS/Solaris forked from AT&T code a REALLY long time ago, especially on Sun's part, and deviated down their own paths, to the point that alot of commands are different, mgmt utils are different, devices and device names are differentare different, etc..

SCO was an excellent product, and in my personal opinion, those idiot executives, from Mcbride down, should all face charges of SOME sort for that whole charade, and basically running the company into the ground. It's ludicrous that the government has done nothing.

I remember starting with Tandy Xenix, and then SCO Xenix in the late 80's, and did support on SCO Unix/Xenix until the mid-to-late 90's. Most Days Inn hotels used a PMS running SCO on NCR (AT&T) equipment. Some cruise lines also used SCO Unix 5.x even into the early 2000's for their PMS (TTG) and it was used in countless other systems.

Shame those morons ran the company into the ground.

At least Novell was smart enough to ask the court to set aside some of the money that SCO had as future payment to Novell, before the legal fees ate it all up.

T
 
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