[KayPro 10] looking for some help restore this system

[Patrick.B (TTR)]

So I Have a Kaypro 10 that I need to restore, it seems to "boot up" but I have no floppy and looks like I will need to reformat/replace the hard drive.
so to start, I want to replace my Kaypro 10 floppy drive with a gotek with FlashFloppy; I was wondering if anyone knew what was the standard file format to use (I am thinking IMD)
and if there are special settings in the CFG file to be changed from the default settings.

Someone said something about which main board I had, and what ROM was also needed to know what diskette to use.
so as per the image below the ROM I have on this system seems to be 81-187 and in the repository for Kaypro http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kaypro/
I found this ROM isn't listed, so do I need to find a new rom file to upgrade it?

 

[durgadas311]

"81-187" is the CRT character-generator ROM. You'll want to check the system boot/BIOS ROM. Probably something like "81-302c". Strangely, the 81-302c ROM images I see have the init string "* KAYPRO 10 v 1.9E *" - with an upper-case 'E' - so that may indicate you have a different ROM image than what's in the archives. Your boot/BIOS ROM will be underneath the HDD (50-pin ribbon) cable. Your mainboard appears to be the original K10, 81-180. I think the typical re-install (reload) floppies for this system are the k10hald* images, although it is possible that the "g" version will work (many of these images have corruption, so success will depend on where you get them - unless someone else has first-hand experience with the reload images).

 

[tradde]

I was trying to compare the mainboard shown to my 2x, but it's not the same board nor layout. So I am sorry I can't help here. I would expect the 10 to have a newer ROM from my 81-292 like 81-302c as suggested.

 

[durgadas311]

The original K10 had a mainboard somewhere between the II/IV and the 2X. Later K10 have the 2X(et al.) mainboard (modified to fit the sheet-metal of the traditional K10).

 

[tradde]

Mine must be an early 2x. The top on the sides has Kaypro 2 only. Only on the back is there a red X sticker. But on comparing this to other 2x's it seems to be correct. When did they add that side card?

 

[ldkraemer]

Patrick,
I've previously processed the K10HALD{1..8} with a batch file, with no conversion errors.

TD02IMD k10hald1.td0 > K10HALD1.TXT

IMDA K10HALD1.IMD >> K10HALD1.TXT

IMDU K10HALD1.IMD K10HALD1.RAW /B /E /D >> K10HALD1.TXT

All eight files (K10HALD{1..8}) have the following format with no errors.

TD 1.5 5.25 LD MFM S-step, 2 sides 24/10/2003 10:51:23
Kaypro 10
Autoload Diskette #1
CP/M 2.2H and Utilities
80 tracks, 800 sectors converted.

IMageDisk Utility 1.18 / Mar 07 2012
IMD TD 1.5 5.25 LD MFM S-step, 2 sides 24/10/2003 10:51:23

Kaypro 10

Autoload Diskette #1

CP/M 2.2H and Utilities

Assuming 1:1 for Binary output
0/0 250 kbps DD 10x512
80 tracks(40/40), 800 sectors (353 Compressed)

Plus, I've used cpmtools (built with libdsk) to extract the files into folders {1..8}.

Here is a directory listing of all eight floppy's.

cpmls -f kay2 K10HALD1.RAW
0:
ex.com
format06.com
load4mat.bak
load4mat.sub
pip.com
reload.bak
reload.sub

1:
asm.com
baudm.com
baudp.com
check.com
config.com
d.com
ddt.com
dump.asm
dump.com
ed.com
findbad.com
flpyfmt.com
genflpy.com
load.com
mfdisk.com
movcpm.com
mufback.com
mufdesc.com
muflook.com
mufrest.com
nomenu.com
pause.com
putovl.com
putsys.com
read.com
safety.com
stat.com
submit.com
term.com
xsub.com
yesmenu.com

13:
format.moc

15:
rcheck.com
reload.1


cpmls -f kay2 K10HALD2.RAW
1:
anagram.com
dictsort.com
find.com
homonyms.txt
hyexcept.txt
hyphen.com
kaypro.lrn
lookup.com
mailmrge.ovr
maindict.cmp
markfix.com
print.tst
review.com
spell.com
tw.com
updict.cmp
wc.com
winstall.com
wordfreq.com
ws.com
ws.ins
wsmsgs.ovr
wsovly1.ovr

15:
reload.2


cpmls -f kay2 K10HALD3.RAW
2:
income.log
income.tbl
mperror.fil
mpform.ovl
mphelp.fil
mplogic.ovl
mpmenu.fil
mpprint.ovl
mpserial.num
mpset.ovl
mpsetup.fil
mpshow.ovl
mpstat.ovl
plan.com

3:
aliens.com
bio.bas
blkjk.bas
catchum.com
catchum.dat
chase.bas
clone.com
clone.dat
horse.bas
ladder.com
ladder.dat
mbasic.com
obasic.com
rocket.bas
strtrk.bas
taxman.bas
trade.bas
wump.bas

15:
reload.3


cpmls -f kay2 K10HALD4.RAW
0:
masmenu.com
masmenu.dat
masmenu.txt
masprep.com

4:
candr-c.com
cbas2.com
crun2.com
crun238.com
xref.com

5:
basiclib.rel
candr-s.com
dplay.bas
fac.bas
graphics.bas
graphics.doc
overlayb.com
sbasic.com
userlib.rel
xamn.bas

10:
sp-main.cmd
zip.com

15:
reload.4


cpmls -f kay2 K10HALD5.RAW
6:
automite.com
automite.hlp
datasolv.hex
kayint.hex
kpro484.hex
minstall.com
mite.com
mite.hlp
mite/u.com  ***** DID NOT COPY DUE to /
textp.for

15:
reload.5


cpmls -f kay2 K10HALD6.RAW
7:
batch.ovr
clientsr.def
clientsr.dta
clientsr.ndx
customer.dta
customer.ndx
datastar.com
formgen.com
formsort.com
formsort.ovr
invce.def
invce.dta
invce.ndx
okstates.dta
okstates.ndx
order.def
payments.def
payments.dta
payments.ndx
productr.def
productr.dta
productr.ndx
products.dta
products.ndx
puteof.com
redit.com
remsgs.ovr
report.com
rgen.com
rinstall.com
rsmsgs.ovr
staff.def
staff.dta
staff.ndx

8:
cs.com
cs.ov1
cs.ov2
cs.ovr
csdump.com
csdump.ovr
csmask.msk
demo.csd
termcap.sys

15:
reload.6


cpmls -f kay2 K10HALD7.RAW
9:
checkc.cmd
checkc1.cmd
checks.cmd
clear@.cmd
client.dbf
clientls.cmd
compute.dbf
compute.frm
compute1.dbf
dbase.com
dbaseovr.com
deptmast.dbf
deptmast.frm
emp8.dbf
empbak.dbf
empbak1.dbf
empmast.dbf
empmast.frm
empmastr.frm
empmfrm.frm
empmsrt.dbf
empname.dbf
empname.frm
empnoind.ndx
emptbak.dbf
emptrans.dbf
emptsrt.dbf
jjfrm.frm
jobhfrm.frm
jobhist.dbf
joinjob.dbf
joinpay1.dbf
joinpay2.dbf
joinpay3.dbf
lessons.cmd
maste.dbf
nameaddr.dbf
nameind.ndx
regfrm.frm
t1rdbf.dbf
taxmast.dbf
taxmast.frm
teach1.cmd
teach10.cmd
teach11.cmd
teach1r.cmd
teach1r1.cmd
teach1s.cmd
teach2.cmd
teach21.bak
teach21.cmd
teach2r.cmd
teach3.cmd
teach3c.cmd
teach3f.cmd
teach3f1.cmd
teach4.cmd
teach4b.cmd
teach4l.cmd
teach5.cmd
teach6.cmd
teach6m.cmd

15:
reload.7


cpmls -f kay2 K10HALD8.RAW
9:
teach6u.cmd
teach7.cmd
teach7p.cmd
teach8.cmd
teach8f.cmd
teach8r.cmd
teach9.cmd
teachc.cmd
teachi.cmd
teachxc.cmd
tutmem.mem
tutnabk.dbf
whitehse.cmd

10:
cb-bank.dbf
cb-book.mem
cb-cancl.cmd
cb-check.cmd
cb-check.dbf
cb-clear.cmd
cb-date.cmd
cb-depst.cmd
cb-depst.dbf
cb-help.cmd
cb-main.cmd
cb-mask.cmd
cb-nbwd.cmd
cb-recon.cmd
cb-reprt.cmd
dbasemsg.txt
dgen.cmd
dgen.ovl
dsort.com
filegen.cmd
formgen.cmd
in-add.cmd
in-chng.cmd
in-clean.cmd
in-date.cmd
in-delte.cmd
in-dtail.cmd
in-help.cmd
in-init.cmd
in-main.cmd
in-main.dbf
in-pdesc.ndx
in-pnum.ndx
in-reodr.cmd
in-rpt.cmd
in-rpt1.frm
in-rpt2.frm
in-updte.cmd
in-view.cmd
in-vwed.cmd
install.com
labelgen.cmd
lb-names.dbf
lb-print.cmd
menugen.cmd
rev-off.cmd
rev-on.cmd
zipin.com
zscrn.ovl

15:
reload.8

As you can see there was one error, which I edited to be "mite-u.com" so it extracted properly with cpmtools.

You shouldn't have trouble with the k10hald*.td0 files. You should be able to convert the k10hald.td0
(or *.IMD, or *.RAW) files to .hfe format with HxC. If you can't I can quickly convert them.

Or I can post this subdirectory on my PCloud account and you can grab it.

The Kaypro 10 Definitions I have are:

# 22DISK
#BEGIN KAY2  Kaypro 2X/4/10 - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
#INSERT 22DISK DEFINITION HERE
#END

# cpmtools
# KAY2  Kaypro 2X/4/10 - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
diskdef kay2
  seclen 512
  tracks 40
  sectrk 20
  secbase 0
  blocksize 2048
  maxdir 64
  dirblks 2
  skew 1
  offset 5120
  boottrk 0
  os 2.2
end

# libdsk
[kay2]
description = KAY2  Kaypro 2X/4/10 - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
sides = extsurface
cylinders = 80
heads = 2
secsize = 512
sectors = 10
secbase = 0
datarate = DD

# Flashfloppy/GOTEK
[kay2]
cyls = 80
heads = 2
secs = 10
interleave = 1
bps = 512
id = 0
#rpm = 360
rpm = 300
rate = 250
mode = mfm
iam = no

Larry

 

[durgadas311]

Mine must be an early 2x. The top on the sides has Kaypro 2 only. Only on the back is there a red X sticker. But on comparing this to other 2x's it seems to be correct. When did they add that side card?

Mine also has the "X" sticker. Internally, it is the new mainboard. I purchased mine Aug 1984. Later models have a new case with correct silk screening.

 

[tradde]

I am not that familiar with the Kaypro's. I got mine recently, but it works fine. I had always wanted to mess with CP/M, but never had. So the 10 had a different mainboard and this side board too for the HD? Can a 2x support a HD? Probably not would be my guess. Just curious. Thanks for the info.

 

[durgadas311]

I am not that familiar with the Kaypro's. I got mine recently, but it works fine. I had always wanted to mess with CP/M, but never had. So the 10 had a different mainboard and this side board too for the HD? Can a 2x support a HD? Probably not would be my guess. Just curious. Thanks for the info.

The early 2X's did not have the HDD port populated, so you'd have to add the components. You can look at the mainboard and see whether it has that part populated. I had to replace the mainboard on mine later, and got the fully-populated board at that time. The "HDD port" is actually a generic I/O expansion port, and the side board decodes I/O for the HDD port and sends that to the WD1002 controller. It's a fairly simple board, and can be replicated. The WD1002 is another story, though. The ROM for the later boards ("Universal ROM") auto-detects whether you're running on a HDD or floppy-only system. The original 2X ROM does not have that code. In theory, the universal ROM could be put on a 2X - I don't know if anyone has tried that.

 

[tradde]

I see E20 on my main board appears to be the connector for the HD, but is not installed. There are many components not installed so I figured mine would not be capable of supporting a HD. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Patrick.B (TTR)]

so it looks (peeking under the HDD cable that my board would be a Kaypro 10 '83 board, but the label is unfound yet on my ROM as it is not on it. I will investigate further this weekend and see if I can find the label.
but short of that I guess I can try 2.2.G as a CPM install and see if I can install it on my ST225 I have handy (known working MFM drive) because the Tm502 in this Kaypro is dead. here is a new picture of the unhindered view of the board.

 

[durgadas311]

If you have an EPROM burner, you can check if the ROM is still good, and burn another if not. You'll want the 81-302c ROM. You'll need to install the HDD from floppies, as you probably won't be able to create the proper image directly. The k10hald* floppy images are what I'd recommend for re-installing.

The HDD has some odd way of laying out the disk, using certain sets of cylinders for A: vs. B:, so that makes it difficult to recreate the HDD image manually.

 

[Patrick.B (TTR)]

Ill be putting a Gotek, because converting all TDO to floppies images and making them floppies is too much work right now. then Ill have to see if the HDD is functional but I have a working St225 so should be easy replacement