• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Monochrome screen burn

Plasma

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
2,079
How long does it take a monochrome CRT to get screen burn? I can't find anything definitive or even ballpark, other than amber monitors are more susceptible.

I have a couple monochrome monitors and I'm always paranoid about getting burn in when using them.
 
The major hazard for those monitors is user interfaces that keep stable elements like hotkey labels or menu bars constantly on the screen. If you’re just using the computer “recreationally” and not staring at the same U/I all day you probably don’t need to worry too much.

I do wince whenever I see someone take a green tube and install it in an old Macintosh. I’d be willing to wager only a day or two at high brightness would give you a permanent Apple up in the corner. 🍎
 
Well let's say I used QBASIC for a couple hours. Would that be enough? Or are we talking 12+ hours?
 
Unless you're turning the brightness up to eleven you'll probably be fine with a few hours straight of anything, as long as it's interspersed with other activity that exercises the screen at least somewhat evenly. The classic case of a monitor with severe burn-in is when it's obvious the user ran, say, Lotus 1-2-3 for eight hours a day and nothing else, leaving the ghostly image of the reverse-video row/column headers fossilized for all eternity.

(I probably exaggerated somewhat with my guess on how fast you'd burn in a slow-phosphor monitor on a Mac, but it is about the worst case situation I can imagine outside of a fully dedicated word processing/spreadsheet/forms processing terminal because the menu bar is a fixed element for almost every piece of software the platform runs.)
 
There are DOS mode TSR screen blankers/savers. If this is a monitor that gets used a lot, might look in to those.

Generally just keeping the brightness down and turning it off when not in use should be enough for people like us.

If burn in does start to become visible or if there is already burn in, slightly tweeking the screen image position or size can slightly help smooth out any future burn in a little.
 
Yes I know about screensavers lol. If it's not in use it gets turned off. I'm curious about how long it actually takes if I'm actively using an application with something persistent like a menu. Even official manuals like the Tandy VM-2 just say "a long time" :cautious:
 
I mean, technically speaking just using the monitor at all is by definition subjecting the phosphor to the electron bombardment that‘ll break it down eventually. Giving a hard and fast prediction as to when the phosphor in an area on the monitor that’s constantly lit vs. constantly dark will transform enough to be visible to the human eye is going to depend on a lot of variables, some of which are outside the manufacturer’s control. Even small differences in the output levels of the input signals (in the case of analog/composite monitors) will probably measurably effect the contrast ratio enough to skew the estimate. So, yeah, don’t blame them for going with relatively vague warnings. ;)

Basically the thing that’s going to separate a ”badly burned-in” high-mileage monitor from one that just looks “tired” is the latter spent enough time playing video games between spreadsheet sessions that it faded more uniformly. Death comes for all that lives eventually.
 
… I mean, this isn’t just a mono crt problem. People learned the hard way about 20 years ago that just a few long gaming sessions could ruin a $4,000 plasma TV…
 
Just turn it off when not in use. Or a screen saver as mentioned. Problem solved.

It generally took a very long time before burn in to happened. And it wasn't only monochrome moniters that where affected by it.
 
Last edited:
True any CRT can get burn in. But it's far more common with monochrome. Even the 5151 on Wikipedia has burn in.
 
It probably was on for years..........with the same application.

There were thousand of monochrome crts the didn't have burn in.
 
It's showing the MS-DOS time/date prompt.

I've seen multiple sources stating monochrome CRTs are the most vulnerable to burn in. Due to a combination of the long-persistence phosphor and uniform intensity. Also "modern" CRTs have an aluminum layer or something.

About 1/4 of the monochrome CRTs I see on ebay have some burn in, if the seller bothers to plug it in. Obviously some of it depends on how it was used.
 
If you are that paranoid don't use it at all then...

I tend to stay away from a crt these days if I can. I find old LCD TVs with multiple video inputs (including mono on some I've got)far more useful....lighter, take up far less area and cheap as chips...
 
Last edited:
If you're that annoyed by my thread then leave...
What brought that on dude. I'm just giving my opinion. If you don't like it just don't respond to it for goodness sake.

It is up to the mods to moderate threads not you by the way.

Just because you started this thread does not mean you control who participates in it.
 
Last edited:
If you're that annoyed by my thread then leave...
He's kind of right. Monitors are made to be used. Also, the tube is a consumable anyway with a limited life span (the gun will slowly run out of electrons eventually). If you want to preserve it, don't use it. But if you use it, simply enjoy it as long as it's working and don't think about burn-ins. If it has none yet, it is very unlikely you use it that much showing the same content long enough to cause ones. This happened in office environments using the same program (e.g. WordPerfect) for 8+ hours a day over months. It's not happening if you do a few-hours QBasic session from time to time.
 
What brought that on dude. I'm just giving my opinion. If you don't like it just don't respond to it for goodness sake.

It is up to the mods to moderate threads not you by the way.

Just because you started this thread does not mean you control who participates in it.
How is "don't use it at all" helpful in any way? Clearly you have no idea.
 
Man, this certainly got heated. A few observations:

It's showing the MS-DOS time/date prompt.

This is exactly the sort of burn-in you might get over the course of weeks/months if someone had a bad habit like, say, rebooting their computer when they were done for the day and left it on all night just sitting there at the boot prompts in a dark office. It's not going to happen if you leave the computer alone for a few minutes after flipping the power switch to go get a coffee or whatever once in a while. Ultimately I guess what you're asking for here is where on a continuum between "I left a prompt on the screen for a few minutes" and "I locked it in the closet with a C:> prompt on the screen and came back a year later" will *definitely* create an obvious and permanent mark. And the ugly truth is that nobody can give you an exact answer.

(I guess if you have a few copies of the monitor you're concerned about that you're willing to sacrifice to the cause you could probably come up with some experiments to determine that scientifically? Like, I dunno, dividing the screen into zones and writing software that cycles those zones at different frequencies... but even then the results are going to depend on variables like the exact brightness and contrast settings, etc.)

... Actually, I just looked at the picture of a 5151 on Wikipedia, and I don't think that's burn in. The green phosphor in the 5151 is so slow it'll hold an afterimage for a *long* time; I think it's very possible that program that was run to display that IBM logo was launched right before the picture was taken, and there wasn't enough time for the boot text under it to fade away after the screen was cleared.

I've seen multiple sources stating monochrome CRTs are the most vulnerable to burn in. Due to a combination of the long-persistence phosphor and uniform intensity.

Yes, they're vulnerable to burn in, nobody disputes this, but ultimately it's not a phenomenon isolated to them; the same bad habits that'll burn a permanent stain into a monochrome monitor will also create "damage" on many other display technologies given enough time. (Because all human made artifacts wear out eventually.)

Also "modern" CRTs have an aluminum layer or something.

"Modern" in this context means post-1960 or so. Very old TV tubes were *very* fragile and it was quite normal for them to end up with a literal scorch mark in the middle of the screen. Here's a patent from 1951 for an "Ion Trap", which was the standard solution for mitigating the damage in the 1950s, until someone came up with the brilliant idea of spraying a very thin layer of aluminum paint over the phosphor layer at the front of the tube to moderate the ion flux. Unless you have a very unusual monochrome monitor I'd assume this isn't going to be a problem for you.

About 1/4 of the monochrome CRTs I see on ebay have some burn in, if the seller bothers to plug it in. Obviously some of it depends on how it was used.

The first XT clone my family owned had a Princeton Graphics MAX-12 amber TTL monitor (a dual-mode monitor that supported both MDA and CGA in grayscale) connected to a CGA card. That monitor was in daily use for at least five years (many hours a day), and so far as I can recall it didn't suffer any significant burn-in for as long as we had it. But, again, a home environment isn't the same as an office or industrial setting.

Basically it boils down to this: if you spend eight hours a day for a few months or years doing nothing but programming in Qbasic then, yes, you'll eventually burn the menu bar into your monitor. If the monitor is doing *anything else* for reasonable periods then, no, probably not.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top