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PDP-11/53 configuration question

jmdhuse

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2022
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Hello All,

I'm trying to put together an accurate version of the PDP-11/53+, using the following modules:

KDJ11-DB CPU with 1.5MB of DRAM,
MSV11-QA 1MB DRAM
DLV11-J quad SLU
RQDX3 HDD/FDD controller
BA23 chassis that formerly held a Microvax II

I read in the 1987 PDP-11 Systems Handbook that this system can be configured with a pair of RX33 floppy drives and a pair of RD31-A hard drives. My question is this: What would be the drive identifiers for a system configured this way? Would it be:

DU0: RX33 drive 0
DU1: RX33 drive 1
DU2: RD31-A drive 0
DU3: RD31-A drive 1

I know I can configure it any way I like, but I would like to be as "authentic" as it can be.

Thanks, Jon.
 
The two RD's would be referred to as DU0 and DU1. I think the RX's would be RX0 and RX1? I don't have floppies on my 11/84 and never have tried to boot from one.
 
The two RD's would be referred to as DU0 and DU1. I think the RX's would be RX0 and RX1? I don't have floppies on my 11/84 and never have tried to boot from one.
The RX33 floppies interface to the system via the MSCP protocol, just like the hard drives, so they use the DU driver, too. I suspect the answer I'm looking for is in a PDP-11/53 user's manual, which I can't find on-line anywhere. The Supplement doesn't mention anything about this.
 
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The RQDX3 manual refers to the floppies as RX50's, not RX33's. IDK if that makes a difference as I have not used either (I'm a UNIBUS MSCP and RX211 guy).

This answered my question: https://gunkies.org/wiki/RX33_Flexible_Disk_Drive and the link on the page to the RX50 ...

TL;DR answer is RX33 is successor to RX50, both work with the RQDX3.
 
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In the 1988 Jul-Dec PDP Systems and Options Catalog, page 1-126, we see that the PDP-11/53 can be configured with RX33 floppy disks and RD31A hard disks. The RX33 can access RX50 disks, if I understand correctly.
 
There is some useful information in http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/...MicroPDP11_Systems_Technical_Manual_Sep85.pdf (starting on page 1-8) that supports what I was thinking.

If a hard disk is fitted, it is assigned to DU0. If an RX50 is also fitted (dual drive units) they are assigned DU1 and DU2. An RX33 is a single drive unit - so would only have one drive letter assigned to it (e.g. DU1).

There is a big warning in the manual as follows:

1697631923590.png
I must admit, I have only ever installed systems with one (1) hard drive and either 1 off RX50, 1 off RX33 or 1 off TK50.

Dave
 
Note: The RX33 needs a certain ROM version on the RQDX3 in order to work. This is important as early ROM versions only support the RX50 drive.

The two disk limit I think is for full height disks as the BA23 was always kind of low on +12 volt power. I think it can support 2 RD31's but even then you probably want to configure with soft power up.
 
There is some useful information in http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/...MicroPDP11_Systems_Technical_Manual_Sep85.pdf (starting on page 1-8) that supports what I was thinking.

If a hard disk is fitted, it is assigned to DU0. If an RX50 is also fitted (dual drive units) they are assigned DU1 and DU2. An RX33 is a single drive unit - so would only have one drive letter assigned to it (e.g. DU1).

There is a big warning in the manual as follows:

View attachment 1266273
I must admit, I have only ever installed systems with one (1) hard drive and either 1 off RX50, 1 off RX33 or 1 off TK50.

Dave
Interesting - right after explaining how the system is configured with two hard drives it warns not to do it... I guess the power supply is not beefy enough. But there is the answer to my
question - thanks!
 
My 1st post, but hopefully something of use
I have an 11/53 with 2 X RD31 (ST225) drives and an RX33
The front panel has 2 write protect switches for drives 0 & 1

although i haven had it powered up for a number of years,
from what I remember DU0 & DU1 are the 2 hard drives and DU2 is the RX33

Inside there are
M7554 DCJ11
M7551 MSV11-QA
M3107 DHQ11-M
M7555 RQDX3
 

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Note: The RX33 needs a certain ROM version on the RQDX3 in order to work. This is important as early ROM versions only support the RX50 drive.

The two disk limit I think is for full height disks as the BA23 was always kind of low on +12 volt power. I think it can support 2 RD31's but even then you probably want to configure with soft power up.
Yup,, the ROMs needed for RX33 support are 23-339E5 and 23-340E5... they can be found here:

My 1st post, but hopefully something of use
I have an 11/53 with 2 X RD31 (ST225) drives and an RX33
The front panel has 2 write protect switches for drives 0 & 1

although i haven had it powered up for a number of years,
from what I remember DU0 & DU1 are the 2 hard drives and DU2 is the RX33

Inside there are
M7554 DCJ11
M7551 MSV11-QA
M3107 DHQ11-M
M7555 RQDX3
To echo Alex - welcome!

If you get a chance, can you take a photo of the RQXD3 module showing the jumpers on W23? I've been trying various configurations and can't seem to get something that works reliably. Thanks, Jon.
 
Looking at my RQDX3 the ROM's are as mentioned above
 

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Hi @jmdhuse What kind of drive are you trying to hook up to your RQDX3? I've banged my head against a couple of the jumper settings over the years.
 
Hi @jmdhuse What kind of drive are you trying to hook up to your RQDX3? I've banged my head against a couple of the jumper settings over the years.
I'd like to end up with two RX33 drives and an RD31-A drive. I think the drive jumpers should be DS0 and DS1 for the two floppies, and DS3 for the HDD, but I'm not entirely sure, and I see different suggestions about the W23 jumper on the RQDX3...
 
Yeah the RQDX3 W23 jumpers control some weird stuff like how to deal with the last head select line and write precompensation current. When using an RD54 there is one set of settings, maybe that's why when I hooked up my 40mb hard drive it wouldn't boot RT11 but would allow me to see the directories and copy files.... I might have formatted the RD32 with precompensation on and when using the 54 jumper settings it causes some problems.

Yes, you want the drive as DS3. If you're using real drives (not GoTek's) that are not real DEC drives you may need to do a jumper change on the drive in order for everything to work properly.

I'm going from memory, but I think you needed write precomp on for the RD50, optional on the 51, not on the 53, probably not on the 52. That RD52 I uploaded with MUMPS-11 on it was formatted for an RQDX2 if I recall, that's why it cannot be used on an RQDX3.

I've seen controllers with jumpers on pins 1,2. pins 2,3. Pins 1,2 and 3,4. All sorts of oddball combinations.

The survival tips document on Gunkies is pretty useful. I think I wrote a thread on here about my travails with getting RD54 type drives working on an RQDX3, do a quick search. If not I can pull my controller and snap a picture of the jumper settings.
 
Yeah the RQDX3 W23 jumpers control some weird stuff like how to deal with the last head select line and write precompensation current. When using an RD54 there is one set of settings, maybe that's why when I hooked up my 40mb hard drive it wouldn't boot RT11 but would allow me to see the directories and copy files.... I might have formatted the RD32 with precompensation on and when using the 54 jumper settings it causes some problems.

Yes, you want the drive as DS3. If you're using real drives (not GoTek's) that are not real DEC drives you may need to do a jumper change on the drive in order for everything to work properly.

I'm going from memory, but I think you needed write precomp on for the RD50, optional on the 51, not on the 53, probably not on the 52. That RD52 I uploaded with MUMPS-11 on it was formatted for an RQDX2 if I recall, that's why it cannot be used on an RQDX3.

I've seen controllers with jumpers on pins 1,2. pins 2,3. Pins 1,2 and 3,4. All sorts of oddball combinations.

The survival tips document on Gunkies is pretty useful. I think I wrote a thread on here about my travails with getting RD54 type drives working on an RQDX3, do a quick search. If not I can pull my controller and snap a picture of the jumper settings.
I could not locate that thread, but in the "MicroPDP-11/53 System Supplement Manual" there is a section (4-4) on mass storage. The jumpers on the RX33 and RD31A drives are described. The diagram on page 4-14 shows W23 with pins 1 and 2 connected, and the table on page 4-15 calls this connection the factory configuration.

W23 pins 1-2 connected: "This factory configuration allows the HEADSEL3(L) and REDUCWRTI(L) signals to be tied to the same connector pin (pin 22 of Jl)."
W23 pins 2-3 connected: "W23 connected between points 2 and 3 ties the HEADSEL3(L) signal to pin 9 of Jl, and the REDUCWRTI(L) signal to pin 22 of Jl."

This table is an echo of what is found on page 2-3 of the RQDX3 User's Guide.

I note that neither the RD3xA nor the RX33 drives need external control for precompensation - the reduced read current control is built into the drives themselves, unlike the RD5x drives.

I also note that examining the schematics for the RQDX3 and the H9278-A distribution panel, connecting pins 3 and 4 of W23 does nothing since the distribution panel grounds that signal before it is distributed to the hard disk control connectors, and further the pin it connects to on the hard disk control connectors is also GND. (The schematic for the distribution panel is found in the Microvax 630QY maintenance print set, page 27 of 172, MP0206501630QY FieldMaintenance Print Set).

RQDX3-W23-pin4 is GND
RQDX3-W23-pin3 connected to W23-pin4
RQDX3-J1-pin9 (connected to W23-pin3) via cable connects to Distribution Panel DP-J3-pin42 (order of pins is opposite at each end of cable)
DP-J3-pin42 connects to DB-J1-pin17 and DB-J7-pin17 (these are the control cable connectors to the RD31A drives)
DP-J1-pin17 via cable connects to RD31-J1-Pin17, which is a GND connection

The only reason I can think of for someone connecting pins 3 and 4 of W23 is if they are using a different distribution panel and a different family of hard drives.

FYI - for anyone that is interested... I have a text document that traces all 50 signals from the RDX3 to the distribution pane connectors and on to the RX33 and RD31A control connectors.
 
Oh that is really useful, thank you for tracing it all out!

Chris
I have also taken a look at the M9058 distribution module, used in the BA123 chassis to connect an RQDX3 to drives. It also shows the signal from the RQDX3-J3-pin9, named HEADSEL3# on the RQDX3 schematic, is connected to GND. In fact, there is no signal named HEADSEL3# (or anything like that) anywhere on the M9058 schematic. So, I am concluding that the REDUCWRTI# signal serves as the head select 3 signal, and the factory configuration of W23 with pins 1 and 2 connected together is correct for RD5x and RD3x drives, as this causes the signal named REDUCWRTI# to act as HEADSEL3#.
 
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